Strategy Probly the most balanced solution to armor

[noobharvester]

It seems apparent that with the introduction of armor Sub is no longer what he once was.

He is still good but I find he is now a typewriter fighting blue tooth wireless sun charged keyboards.

How can Sub be brought to their level without making him a demi god?

Ex Ice Clone freezes armor moves.

I think this is a safe bet to make Sub able to be Sub again without making him requiring armor to get in. Instead, this tweak would simply allow him to be himself but at the cost of meter to cancel others meter charge moves.

Good players will notice the loss of meter on a clone and will know it is armored so I don't think it will be overpowered.

What do you guys think?

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

Not just on this, but as a whole, there currently aren't any moves that BREAK armor aside from X-rays. I would expect all attack/command throws should break armor. These include air command throws like Jax/Sheeva and (yes...) Nightwolf. To be honest, I think this game should adapt a SSF4 model (don't hate me for saying that) and have one move for each character break armor. As it stands now, armor completely destroys certain match-ups, and giving those horrible match-ups some way around armor would be helpful. As it stands, if I know you're going to use an armor move, I can't do anything about it with a lot of the cast. If I read armor teleport from Kung Lao, I should be able to air throw you (even if it's just with the enhanced versions) with Sheeva/Jax. If I read armor with Stryker I should be able to baton sweep or bomb you out of it. And if I'm Sub-Zero and I read an armor, an Enhanced Ice clone/Blast or even Ice puddle should beat out everything with armor clean.

But it's not my game. It's NRS.

NRS, if you want to listen to me, make AT LEAST ONE move that breaks armor per character. You can give grapplers like Jax/Sheeva more/better ones if you want. Personally, as a Stryker main, I have to just eat damage when the opponent has an armor punish and keep going. I had no chance of doing anything about it, so I literally have to shrug off a Red glowing foot into the face. It's okay if you're Noob and can re-create space with one or two good hits/blocks, but if you are an all out zoner like Stryker/Sindel, you CANNOT get space against someone with armor. For the life of me, why my NORMAL Air Throw with Jax/Sheeva loses to an air move with armor baffles me to no end. It's hard enough to land it in the first place given how slow it is.

 

[noobharvester]

EX puddle armored would be neat as well, mainly because it's barely ever used. That would be a neat one.

 

[Solo]

EX puddle armored would be neat as well, mainly because it's barely ever used. That would be a neat one.

That would be awesome. Seriously.

 

[Tom Brady]

sub-zero doesnt need armor, he is already one of the top characters

 

[Lord Beef]

I'm compelled to disagree here. While it would be awesome to be able to turtle behind ex clones and not fear the armored moves, I feel that a simple change of strategy will suffice. Why burn meter to stuff armored moves when we can simple read, block and punish? Fundamentals are key with sub, and must be implemented to win, and this proposed buff would make him completely overpowered imo. Just my 2 cents.

-b_s- :headbang:

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

We aren't talking about armor. We're talking about Armor BREAKING. Armor property wrecks a lot of the cast, especially when given to full screen moves. So unless they take away that property from Cage/Wolf/Kung and whoever they want to add as DLC, it's a nail in the coffin for characters that rely on slow high frame advantage moves. Sub-Zero can't freeze, Stryker can't shoot, and Jax/Sheeva can't air throw armored air moves, so long as Cage/Wolf/Kung have meter.

 

[Tom Brady]

sub doesnt need to freeze you, him not being limited to "having to freeze" ppl is what makes him so good.

 

[Solo]

We aren't talking about armor. We're talking about Armor BREAKING. Armor property wrecks a lot of the cast, especially when given to full screen moves. So unless they take away that property from Cage/Wolf/Kung and whoever they want to add as DLC, it's a nail in the coffin for characters that rely on slow high frame advantage moves. Sub-Zero can't freeze, Stryker can't shoot, and Jax/Sheeva can't air throw armored air moves, so long as Cage/Wolf/Kung have meter.

I don't understand you. You want EX to break armor?

 

[Lord Beef]

sub doesnt need to freeze you, him not being limited to "having to freeze" ppl is what makes him so good.

This.

-b_s- :headbang:

 

[ChopChop Ninja]

I still don't think I would ever use enhanced ice clone.

 

[Kwon]

Yes, EX Clone should add something more beside the lil longer duration.

Not used very often.

Maybe it could persist even if you are knocked down etc

 

[King]

sub-zero doesnt need armor, he is already one of the top characters

So why did JC and Nightwolf get armor on one of their special moves? Just saying....

 

[Subby]

sub doesnt need to freeze you, him not being limited to "having to freeze" ppl is what makes him so good.

Well no, but I think its a large part of his character, and having to extend combos into higher percentages.

 

[THTB]

So why did JC and Nightwolf get armor on one of their special moves? Just saying....

It gives Cage an option to get past keepaway, but EX shadow kick will not leave Cage where he wants to be unless the opponent is close to the corner. So in a lot of cases, it's using 1 bar of meter for a tradeoff that is in your favor damage-wise, but doesn't leave you in a position to really capitalize.

Once people get used to Nightwolf, it'll make more sense why he got it, and IMO it won't stop him from gaining matchups not in his favor.

 

[Nick T.]

I don't get it. Do some of you guys speedball coke before you post?? Sub has some very subtle ways to being scary. I mean fuck, I just saw in another thread that Sub has to guess to get in??? LOL

Seems like you guys need a lesson in footsies.

Tell you what I'll give you guys free advice...wanna be scary with Sub?....walk forward...
I know this new technology can be scary but try it.

 

[Lord Beef]

I don't get it. Do some of you guys speedball coke before you post?? Sub has some very subtle ways to being scary. I mean fuck, I just saw in another thread that Sub has to guess to get in??? LOL

Seems like you guys need a lesson in footsies.

Tell you what I'll give you guys free advice...wanna be scary with Sub?....walk forward...
I know this new technology can be scary but try it.

THANK YOU!
Thread winner right here. pretty sure this should be closed now.

 

[Nick T.]

I actually think Sub Zero is a straight up footsies character, and THAT is what makes him deadly, you can fuck with people just on normal poke usage . The rest of the stuff(clone placement, 22 usage, etc) is just a helping hand.

 

[noobharvester]

I actually think Sub Zero is a straight up footsies character, and THAT is what makes him deadly, you can fuck with people just on normal poke usage . The rest of the stuff(clone placement, 22 usage, etc) is just a helping hand.

Explain in further detail regarding Sub being a footsies character?

All tournament footage I see Sub is just getting flat out pounded on.

 

[TWZTID]

people that hide behind ice clones and bitch about it bein broken with armor, suck anyways.

i'll juggernaut my way thru with Jax all day!!! keep em coming

 

[salvificblood]

I honestly don't feel the armour given to Cage or Nightwolf has changed those matchups a great deal for me. I don't mind taking the hit if I can go back to my zoning game and those hits aren't free, you have to time them and you have to use meter. I still beat every Johnny Cage and Nightwolf I come across at the moment. I don't feel Sub loses either matchup. You just have to come out and fight a bit yourself at some point, but do it on your terms, this is where the ice clone is super powerful for drawing a line on the screen you can advance beyond but your opponent can't.

The case for armour on any of Sub's moves only really applies to his tougher matchups, in my opinion, which are with the likes of Skarlet and Ermac.

TWZTID, your signature is scaring me, so I don't want to fight your Jax, lol.

 

[Lyuben]

For me Johnny Cage armor is just another factor. You can easily read as well when it is coming and punishing it is easy. Throw a couple of ice balls, around 2 and expect it.

 

[Southee]

It seems apparent that with the introduction of armor Sub is no longer what he once was.

He is still good but I find he is now a typewriter fighting blue tooth wireless sun charged keyboards.

How can Sub be brought to their level without making him a demi god?

Ex Ice Clone freezes armor moves.

I think this is a safe bet to make Sub able to be Sub again without making him requiring armor to get in. Instead, this tweak would simply allow him to be himself but at the cost of meter to cancel others meter charge moves.

Good players will notice the loss of meter on a clone and will know it is armored so I don't think it will be overpowered.

What do you guys think?

I think that Sub-Zero is fine the way he is, if you change his Ice Statue to Armor breaking he becomes overpowered, ice clone isn't the only solution he has, if I get a good read on a Nightwolf, Johnny Cage or Jax wake up attack I can jump out of the way and they have wasted one bar of meter And I can continue my game, It's what Tom Brady has said before, The meter at the bottom of your screen is more important than the meter at the top, if people want to waste their meter by all means go ahead. The only character I have trouble beating is Kung Lao and if that's the only bad matchup I have with Sub-Zero I can't see why other people have to many issues, Sub has so much to his game, learn your opponents and your will prevail as the winner.

 

[Sao87]

Explain in further detail regarding Sub being a footsies character?

All tournament footage I see Sub is just getting flat out pounded on.

I'm not a sub-zero player but ill try to help you here. A lot of mortal kombat players don't really touch the game off line which means they will never fully develop any sort of footsie, poke or anti air game. Why? Because it isn't possible to fully understand or utilize the these moves online.

One of the most annoying things you can do with sub zero is get in their face take a life lead and then d4 into ice clone, block strings into ice clone, etc. Basically feign offense into clone and poke people to death. Once a clone is out you stand in it press 2,2 which throws an almost unbeatable hit box that shuts down almost everything your opponent wants to do once you have the life lead.

A lot of players think that certain things aren't good because other strings do more damage which ends up limiting their offense and making them very predictable.

 

[Bidu]

sub-zero doesnt need armor, he is already one of the top characters

I couldn't agree more, Tom. I mean, Sub is so, so, so strong against melee characters such as Striker, Johnny Cage, Jax, Sonya, Liu Kang, the list goes on.

Of course there's some matches that are pretty tough to win such as the recent Kenshi, Ermac, Kabal, etc. Teleporters/Zonners in general.

But I share the same opinion. I see no reason why give armor to Sub-Zero. In matter of fact, Sub-Zero is one of the few character of this game that I consider to be balanced. I wouldn't change one thing about him and that's coming from someone who actually mains Sub-Zero, unlike most of the players around that cry all day long saying that Sub-Zero desperately need buffs.