Suggestions before balance patch as of 07/30

[JustPressingButtons]

The bitch fits over Superman~
Leads to arguing, FT 10 challenges, call outs, people pissed, nerf suggesting, buff suggesting, even more bitching, and shit posting.

 

[Li1mightymouse]

Did you guys really go six pages on superman...

 

[AK Harold]

Offline I do not have a problem with Superman matchup as I can react most of his "zoning" tools. If he MB laser sweep its a victory for you, just gotta train yourself to block low high at max range always. I can only speak from my MU which is Flash and I feel it is 5/5 at worst possibly still plus for Superman. Unfortunately there are a few players I hadn't gotten to play yet with their best supermen, but I sincerely feel that it is not a terrible match. At max range, sure I may have to think and react better than Super man, but if you take that part of his game away Superman really cannot handle flash mid or close range. I started learning this game a month + after game was released and had to learn to play against superman for the majority of my playtime and initially I thought it was stupid and impossible.

Now though I really believe the match up sucks for superman. Again I am not experienced enough with other characters to even attempt to justify whether supes should be nerfed or not, but there are clear universal tools that can be used against superman.

1. Air dash/ air mobility seems very strong against his full screen stuff.
2. Ducking and dashing. Blocking and dashing. Neutral jump or foward jump. Use a combination that works best for your character.
3. Trading projectiles with laser sweep is typically a win for you.
4. Really just training mode superman on repeat to see the different tell he gives for sweep and shot until you can make a read on it.
5. Stage select matters, please explore this more. Even if you are both power characters there are better stages against Superman and worse ones.

This is just the anti zone stuff. His strongest game is midrange as stated before, but I have found with 5 characters just training mode for a little bit they have meterless options to contest his string. (most are hitbox related seemingly) Also universal ways to deal with it with meter. I am not trying to say Superman is bottom tier, but I feel there is a character that already in my eyes is much better than superman. Also, there are very few characters that I would rank below the rest of the group with my current matchup knowledge.

Sorry I know people dont like to read here so

Superman is not a problem right now.

 

[M-Aran-X]

Your posts are annoying .. Why aren't you getting what everyone is saying?


Besides if you're defending one string, you need to consider all strings, not only that but there are characters that have what you're saying "superman" (slow strings, bad mixups) and they do just fine. They don't even have other epic options that superman has.

Think about the fact that when you play someone like flash, raven, or Wonder Woman; your gameplan is for the most part the same against certain characters but with Supes you can literally do whatever you want because he has soooo many options that I'm almost sure you have no idea to fully capitalize on him.

Oh boy If you just stick to just one gameplan against a character then I wonder how would you do it against Vergil who has way more options and dominates his game in every aspect.

 

[Lex Luthor II]

Superman's breath is 0 on block and people are still being put in loops. L ow l
I don't think they can make Killer Frost any worse, ow yeah make slide -15 because people complain about having to block low and then think that because they blocked low they are entitled to a full combo punish for that hard read

I think people are still mad because it makes his f23 almost 100% safe because if after a blocked breath he does another f23 there's few characters who can attack him in that range FASTER and with higher priority than Supermans f23, nay?

As WW after a blocked f23 breath I dont really have anything that I can attack him with that will beat his f23 immediately after. I always just have to backdash. It's just super safe, and an easy braindead setup attack pattern.

 

[Zatoichi]

GUYS, CAN WE STOP IT WITH THE SUPERMAN WHINING AND JUST MOVE ON TO THE NEXT CHARACTER? HOW ABOUT BANE? OR LEX? LETS DISCUSS WHAT WE CAN DO TO BALANCE THEM.

Thank you!

 

[kabelfritz]

please dont touch raven. NRS be happy you made ONE well-rounded character from the beginning on so plz leave her alone.

 

[shaowebb]

Im not really certain what to do for Lex...the potential is there but he needs his trait armor to get rolling. However the act of charging it generally equals you getting hit and losing what you just charged and going on the defensive given projectile speed and folks from full screen knocking his armor away. You essentially need a knockdown to setup armor...I dunno....I just dont know the character well enough to make any real strategy debates I feel confident in, but thats the general concern I had messing with him.

Any ideas what he may need? Perhaps a speed boost to traps on startup or some of his pokes?

 

[@MylesWright_]

I think people are still mad because it makes his f23 almost 100% safe because if after a blocked breath he does another f23 there's few characters who can attack him in that range FASTER and with higher priority than Supermans f23, nay?

As WW after a blocked f23 breath I dont really have anything that I can attack him with that will beat his f23 immediately after. I always just have to backdash. It's just super safe, and an easy braindead setup attack pattern.

a superman actually hasn't even tried to keep doing it against me lol, they normally just backdash or something.
Aren't you at like max range of f2 after the breath because of its pushback so you could walk back slightly and whiff punish or neutral jump the f2 or something

 

[Zatoichi]

Lex:

• Trait: Make the trait fully invincible to projectile attacks. Add one or two more points of armor against all other attacks that don't count as projectile for a total of 2 or 3 points of armor.
• 1,1 String: Make it truly hit mid so no one can duck the punches.

That's all I can really think up for Lex.

Bane:

• F2d2: Allow Bane to either recover fast enough after the d2 so he can combo with normal strings or allow him to cancel the d2 into special moves
• Bane Charge: Allow Bane to cancel his charge similar to how Grundy can cancel his Walking Corpse Grab
• Venom Level 2 Trait: Add an additional point of armor to Banes Special moves for a total of two points of armor.
• Venom Level 3 Trait: Add two additional points of armor to Bane's special moves and f2 for a total of three points of armor.
• f1: Anything at this point to make it worth using.

Thoughts?

 

[haketh]

Bane being able to cancel charge would be the dumbest shit and having multiple hits of armor on higher levels of venom just makes the character stupid as fuck.

 

[Zatoichi]

Bane being able to cancel charge would be the dumbest shit and having multiple hits of armor on higher levels of venom just makes the character stupid as fuck.

Alright, what about letting Bane recover faster on a whiffed charge? That way people who just neutral jump him can't punish him.

What would YOU do with Bane?

 

[miloPKL]

heres a few things lex could use. take your pick but dont break him.

faster probe
more pushback on lance
faster mine
better MB mine (has no use does no damage wastes 1 bar) i suggest a more damaging or wider longer lasting mine, or mb mine throws 2 mines at once.
more than one mine on screen at once
lex should not take MORE damage when traited. ever.
11 to hit mid
special cancelable standing 3 and d3
more hits on lvl 3 trait armor

 

[chief713]

Alright, what about letting Bane recover faster on a whiffed charge? That way people who just neutral jump him can't punish him.

What would YOU do with Bane?

Or Bane players could approach intelligently and not charge mindlessly.

 

[haketh]

Alright, what about letting Bane recover faster on a whiffed charge? That way people who just neutral jump him can't punish him.

What would YOU do with Bane?

If someone nuetral jumped it because Bane did a dumb charge he deserves to get punished.

Changing Bane is something that's hard to do, the way he's designed right now he could very easily end up being extremely dumb in the game. Few changes I would is let Ring Toss acctually work as an AA and let you have control over the followup.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Bane's charge is maybe the worst special in the game. 100% avoidable and punishable by almost every character in the game. If you get hit by this youre an idiot.

That being said, I dont think it should be cancelable unless you can only cancel once he's started running. Imagine him cancelling right after you input the command to charge. Holy shit...Bane would be a mother fucking beast up close.

I think adding a few more seconds onto level 2 and 3 Venom could be useful to allow him to just Juggernaut his way in.

 

[Name v.5.0]

I think for most of us the universal change needed is a faster walk speed. Especially if we cant cancel our dashes.

Do that, and fix the fucking frame data in the menus and I'm good.

 

[chief713]

Bane's charge is maybe the worst special in the game. 100% avoidable and punishable by almost every character in the game. If you get hit by this youre an idiot.

 

[haketh]

Uh....you're not punishing Bane's charge on block.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Uh....you're not punishing Bane's charge on block.

Well no, but I never said anything about punishing it on block. Why block when you can jump...or in some cases MBB3

 

[haketh]

MBB3 gets you blown up, and you're only talking about unintelligent use of the move. If you're using the move in a dumb manner, get blown up.

 

[chief713]

Bane's charge w/venom is one of the BEST moves in the game. That shit is stupid if you use it correctly. Some characters can't do jack shit about it and get their ENTIRE moveset shut down by it.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Jack shit....besides jump?

I'm not trying to put down Bane. If you look up, I'm suggesting buffs for him.

And no way is it, even with level 3 venom, a top special in this game.

 

[chief713]

Sure, if you're mashing on it like an idiot. But if you use it intelligently, many characters have a hard time dealing with it. And it's not like it's the only move he has so opponents can't just sit there and wait for you to do it...unless that's all you're doing. In which case you're playing the character wrong.

 

[SgtTenor]

I think people are still mad because it makes his f23 almost 100% safe because if after a blocked breath he does another f23 there's few characters who can attack him in that range FASTER and with higher priority than Supermans f23, nay?

As WW after a blocked f23 breath I dont really have anything that I can attack him with that will beat his f23 immediately after. I always just have to backdash. It's just super safe, and an easy braindead setup attack pattern.

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This right there. That's the culprit. Why should a Special move have so little recovery?