Suggestions before balance patch as of 07/30

[M-Aran-X]

What sups do you play against? They don't do Flying Ground Smash against you?

still waiting, and pls don't tell me f23 breath is a mixup. Show me that mixup pls and prove that blocking low doesn't work.

 

[M-Aran-X]

F23F23F23F23F23F23xbreathF23F23F23F23xbreathF23F23F23F23F23F23F23xbreathF23xbreathF23F23F23xbreath etc etc. Point being Superman's F2 is the start of all the pain he is about to bring to his opponent. It needs to be addressed somehow. We are talking here for an 8f safe, cancelable, advancing, mid launcher move which can deal up to 50% dmg mid screen with trait and one bar and carry the opponent in the corner where we all know Superman dominates with his crazy OTG's. NRS should make the move slower or reduce the range and its crazy hit box.

why not just get rid of the loop by making breath -3? why everyone wants to destroy the string instead of the loop?

 

[gridman]

What combo are you doing that does %50 midscreen with trait? Id love to know

 

[Metzos]

why not just get rid of the loop by making breath -3? why everyone wants to destroy the string instead of the loop?

Because the string is the problem, not the loop. The loop is just a bonus. Also i dont know if this is known, but a blocked F23xbreath doesnt always leave the opponent at the same distance. And that means that if you try and down poke after you block the loop, you WILL get blown up by another f23.

 

[MetalPete]

Good post about Aquaman. He is actually the one character I dread fighting against because his mix-ups come at you so fast and what look like mids turn out to be lows. A very good mix-up game indeed. The only thing I like to see changed is the ability to jump a db2. Even if you dash on reaction there is still chance the trident's hot-box will suck you into the attack.

 

[AZ MotherBrain]

The main thing I would like to see from this patch is a universal walkspeed buff.

 

[Mojo]

why not just get rid of the loop by making breath -3? why everyone wants to destroy the string instead of the loop?

People want to destroy f23 because they feel cheated since their characters have no fast advancing string which means they can't whiff punish and play any real footsies. This is a problem that probably wouldn't exist if dash recovery wasn't so bad and if walk speeds were faster.

 

[Metzos]

What combo are you doing that does %50 midscreen with trait? Id love to know

ji2, f23xtrait, f2xMB breath, b3, ji3, 22xlow scoop, 3xflying punch or breath. It deals 47% dmg i think, not 50% (my bad). My point is, that it deals above good damage and has an excellent wall carry which leads the opponent in the corner and after that he must guess and block right the OTG. If he guesses wrong, round is over. And all that starts from F2.

 

[gridman]

ji2, f23xtrait, f2xMB breath, b3, ji3, 22xlow scoop, 3xflying punch or breath. It does 47% dmg i think, not 50% (my bad). My point is, that it deals above good damage and has an excellent wall carry which leads the opponent in the corner and after that he must guess and block right the OTG. If he guesses wrong, round is over. And all that starts from F2.

And KDZ will tell you that blowing meter midscreen is hardly worth it. Its better to do f23, f23, f2 xx low scoop, 3 xx superman punch.
22 low scoop can be inconsistent after b3 j3 as well. midscreen bnb is usually 43%ish off of f23 but whatever. superman generally does all his damage in the corner and its worth saving meter and trait until their in the corner.

 

[Cossner]

still waiting, and pls don't tell me f23 breath is a mixup. Show me that mixup pls and prove that blocking low doesn't work.

So according to you, blocking low kills superman.

Guys we've all been doing it wrong, Mr. M-Aran-X has the solution for Superman. Just block low. So simple!

#SupermanBottom3

EGP Wonder_Chef

Spoiler

Also:

7:35

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

So according to you, blocking low kills superman.

Guys we've all been doing it wrong, Mr. M-Aran-X has the solution for Superman. Just block low. So simple!

#SupermanBottom3

EGP Wonder_Chef

I have seen the light and Superman is no longer a problem.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Thank you Mr-M-Aran-X

 

[Metzos]

Thank you Mr-M-Aran-X

Oh, you troll, you. You are a wonderful chef.

 

[Metzos]

And KDZ will tell you that blowing meter midscreen is hardly worth it. Its better to do f23, f23, f2 xx low scoop, 3 xx superman punch.
22 low scoop can be inconsistent after b3 j3 as well. midscreen bnb is usually 43%ish off of f23 but whatever. superman generally does all his damage in the corner and its worth saving meter and trait until their in the corner.

I dont agree. Meter building is not a problem for Superman at all. 22 low scoop can be done easily if you know the height. Once you learn that, its very easy. Anyway my problem with Superman is his F2. Everything else is fine.

 

[M-Aran-X]

What about Flying Ground Smash?

I love this gif way too much.

oh wow a jump overhead totally predictable. if youcan't see that after a b3 d2 a jd3 is coming better drop the game.

 

[M-Aran-X]

what a bunch of noobs. Everyone know that the f23 pressure is something that should be nerfed, but if you can't realize the advantage that you get by blocking low against supes has, I can't talk to you people anymore.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

oh wow a jump overhead totally predictable. if youcan't see that after a b3 d2 a jd3 is coming better drop the game.

you can cross up or not cross up.

 

[Cossner]

oh wow a jump overhead totally predictable. if youcan't see that after a b3 d2 a jd3 is coming better drop the game.

I don't think you understand what mix ups are. Mix ups do not have to be a continuous barrage of strings, mix ups are just making your attacks hard to predict. You can add mix ups to your pressure strings, I think that's where your confusion is. Let's say he does f23 xx breath, he back dashes and you think you can block the Ground Pound but it crosses you over. That's a mix up. Let's say he does 223 (last one is an overhead), but instead he goes for the scoop, or he just decides to go for the grab, etc etc. Sups controls everything in the game up close, he can whiff punish better than anyone, you can't jump on him, he has that loop pressure thing going on, he pretty much as every tool to deal with you up close. Saying something like "how can everyone bitch if you just need to block low, and if you can't see it coming better drop the game", just shows your lack of knowledge of how FGs work.

what a bunch of noobs. Everyone know that the f23 pressure is something that should be nerfed, but if you can't realize the advantage that you get by blocking low against supes has, I can't talk to you people anymore.

Sure thing random 2013 person.

 

[TH3DISTURBED1]

ji2, f23xtrait, f2xMB breath, b3, ji3, 22xlow scoop, 3xflying punch or breath. It deals 47% dmg i think, not 50% (my bad). My point is, that it deals above good damage and has an excellent wall carry which leads the opponent in the corner and after that he must guess and block right the OTG. If he guesses wrong, round is over. And all that starts from F2.

That starts from a j2 actually. It's 44% without it.

 

[TH3DISTURBED1]

I don't think you understand what mix ups are. Mix ups do not have to be a continuous barrage of strings, mix ups are just making your attacks hard to predict. You can add mix ups to your pressure strings, I think that's where your confusion is. Let's say he does f23 xx breath, he back dashes and you think you can block the Ground Pound but it crosses you over. That's a mix up. Let's say he does 223 (last one is an overhead), but instead he goes for the scoop, or he just decides to go for the grab, etc etc. Sups controls everything in the game up close, he can whiff punish better than anyone, you can't jump on him, he has that loop pressure thing going on, he pretty much as every tool to deal with you up close. Saying something like "how can everyone bitch if you just need to block low, and if you can't see it coming better drop the game", just shows your lack of knowledge of how FGs work.
Sure thing random 2013 person.

If you can't fuzzy guard between 223 and 22~low scoop, you deserve to be hit by it.

 

[STRYKIE]

I probably won't play him given that I just flat-out don't like his design in this game but I think Scorp should get his safe flipkick back and a better dash.

Does anyone know if the next patch is the last?

 

[Cossner]

If you can't fuzzy guard between 223 and 22~low scoop, you deserve to be hit by it.

I'm explaining what a mix up is. Because apparently blocking low completely destroys Superman and his family.

 

[Fabulocity]

Here's the problem. people see something is really good and they want it to be not really good. That's fine in some cases. The issue here is that only works in a vaccum. I'm not drawing these changes up in a vaccum. I'm writing this as a whole and hope people (mostly importantly NRS) see it that way.

Am I going light on Superman chnages? Yes, because I have drawn up changes for other characters as well and am looking at this a s a whole. I don't want to nerf him into the ground and make other characters better. that's just going to leave us with the same problem we have now, replacing Superman with the new hotness.

The idea is to look at the game as an complete eco-system. One tiny change has huge ramifications. when doing a whole balance patch, you have many tiny changes all effecting the bigger picture.

So yes, I left Superman largely alone because I think the other changes I'd like to see (which I will post as I get to them) will impact the match up enough. Basically nerfing Superman by buffing everyone else.

Well, when everyone else is buffed, what happens to Superman? You can nerf him hard, buff everyone else and then expect the game to be balanced now. It doesn't work that way. The only change I suggested for Superman is to fix his hit box so sweeps don't whiff. Nothing more because other characters are going to have stuff that make the match up easier anyways.

Not only that, but we still don't have any real, long term hard data on how much the universal d2 buff is going to effect the game.

tldr: cool your jets. nerfing Superman to shit won't make a funner game.

If only I worked at NRS.... haha!

 

[PND i2 Gaug3]

What about Flying Ground Smash?

Can only combo from it on a standing opponent if midscreen, if you crouch most we can get is a super i think

This message is brought to you by The Hateocracy

 

[THTB]

Why is everyone largely forgetting Supes's lasers disappear when he's hit...?