Menu
By:
Filters
What's new

Can someone explain wake up attack system in this game?

Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Woah, what the fuck is happening here?

Startup frames: Number of frames a move takes hit something, or to begin something.
Active frames: Number of frames a move is on his active state, this means that during this process you can't touch this move.
Invincibility frames: Number of frames a hurtbox stays temporaly disabled to avoid attacks with active frames from the attacker's hitbox.
Recovery frames: Number of frames a move takes to recover, this can be on block, whiff or hit.
Duration frames: Full duration or full animation frames of a move
Block advantage: number of frames that takes to the character return to a neutral position after a blocked attack.


if a move has 6 frames startup (meaning his active frame starts on the 7th frame) and has a 11 frames of invencibility, this means that this move has 5 frames on invincibility.

what is the issue here?
 
I

IFA Sadistt

Noob
True-safe jump is strictly a timing issue. That's why I added "true" safe jumps because I KNOW you can technically 'safe' jump 3f reversals by using spacing, it isn't a hitbox issue.

This is a true safe jump kid:

http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_IV_AE/Deejay

Either explain this or shut up lololol.
Classic response of a person who can't admit they're wrong. Safe jumping 3f reversals by using spacing has nothing to do with what i was talking about - "true" safe jumps which are strictly timing issues.
 
Minh Giang

Minh Giang

aka ChrsitianDMG on Stream
Eddy Wang said:
Woah, what the fuck is happening here?

Startup frames: Number of frames a move takes hit something, or to begin something.
Active frames: Number of frames a move is on his active state, this means that during this process you can't touch this move.
Invincibility frames: Number of frames a hurtbox stays temporaly disabled to avoid attacks with active frames from the attacker's hitbox.
Recovery frames: Number of frames a move takes to recover, this can be on block, whiff or hit.
Duration frames: Full duration or full animation frames of a move
Block advantage: number of frames that takes to the character return to a neutral position after a blocked attack.


if a move has 6 frames startup (meaning his active frame starts on the 7th frame) and has a 11 frames of invencibility, this means that this move has 5 frames on invincibility.

what is the issue here?
Click to expand...
people don't understand Tom Brady's ipact frames #Kappa.
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
tataki said:
http://www.dustloop.com/forums/content.php?104-Reading-and-Using-Frame-Data-Part-1
"Startup is the time starting from when a move initiates to the first hitting frame."
May's 5K data:

Startup: 9
Active: 6
Recovery: 9
Static Difference: -3


1st active frame as you can see in the picture: 9



This is for Japanese fighting games, including Capcom titles.

If you took your "startup" definition from eventhubs or something, the way they described it is MISLEADING!
Click to expand...
actually this is a 8 frame move in the graphic, not 9.
 
cyke_out

cyke_out

Warrior
Got to say the OP is acting really douche-like. Asks a question, and then blows up at the answer and spills into off topic bullshit. I'm all about helping new members, but sometimes it's not worth it.
 
smokey

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
cyke_out said:
Got to say the OP is acting really douche-like. Asks a question, and then blows up at the answer and spills into off topic bullshit. I'm all about helping new members, but sometimes it's not worth it.
Click to expand...

The OP wasnt looking for a definition or explanation on Frame Data, as he understands it (based on his SF4 knowlege).

What he was looking for was someone to re-word tom bradys example into one he could understand.
 
I

IFA Sadistt

Noob
Eddy Wang said:
Woah, what the fuck is happening here?

Startup frames: Number of frames a move takes hit something, or to begin something.
Active frames: Number of frames a move is on his active state, this means that during this process you can't touch this move.
Invincibility frames: Number of frames a hurtbox stays temporaly disabled to avoid attacks with active frames from the attacker's hitbox.
Recovery frames: Number of frames a move takes to recover, this can be on block, whiff or hit.
Duration frames: Full duration or full animation frames of a move
Block advantage: number of frames that takes to the character return to a neutral position after a blocked attack.


if a move has 6 frames startup (meaning his active frame starts on the 7th frame) and has a 11 frames of invencibility, this means that this move has 5 frames on invincibility.

what is the issue here?
Click to expand...
That's what everyone is saying, but this genius here is trying to argue that if a move has 6f start up, the active frame begins on the 6th frame.

tataki said:
If something has a 9 frame startup it means it starts hitting on frame 9.
Click to expand...
He basically just google-fu'd the crap out of us with a wrong source LOL. The source probably misunderstood it like he did. Either that or GGAC community has a different definition/standard than the rest of the fighting game world, in which case, is understandable as we were talking about two different definitions set by two different communities. However, it doesn't change the fact that he made an ass out of himself by thinking he can teach me how to read frame data from my own game which he clearly has no knowledge what-so-ever of.
 
BaronVonRupert

BaronVonRupert

"Mere child's play."
AFAIK, the way SRK does frame data for SF4, tataki is correct. If a move has 9f startup, it goes all the way to the first active frame. that's not the way i've known to do it, but that's what they do.
 
I

IFA Sadistt

Noob
BaronVonRupert said:
AFAIK, the way SRK does frame data for SF4, tataki is correct. If a move has 9f startup, it goes all the way to the first active frame. that's not the way i've known to do it, but that's what they do.
Click to expand...
Care to explain why SRK lists Deejay's Ex dp as 4f start up yet it can be truly safe jumped then? Because if the active frame starts on the 4th, it would be impossible to safe jump 4f reversals in Ssf4, because there are 4 landing frames from a jump-attack. Also, what's funny is that even the GGAC community agrees with the standard definition.

http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Reading_Frame_Data

"The number of frames before a move can actually hit the opponent."
 
BaronVonRupert

BaronVonRupert

"Mere child's play."
IFA Sadistt
The convention in frame guides is to include the first frame of the active phase of the move in it's startup (apparently because some people find it hard to add 1 to a number). So when you see a move has a 4 frame startup, it actually means it takes 3 frames to startup and hits on frame 4. This is also incidentally what people mean when they refer to "X" frame moves. X just represents the first frame of the move's active phase (ie. the first frame it's capable of hitting the opponent). In this case, Ryu's Far LP is a 4 frame move. The frame data also says the active phase of Far LP lasts for 3 frames, which means that it's capable of hitting an opponent for 3 frames in it's life span. The 6 frames of recovery should be obvious.
Click to expand...
http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/106615/basic-frame-data-guide-for-newbies
 
tataki

tataki

Noob
IFA Sadistt said:
"The start of your attack before it can hit the opponent is made up of Startup Frames"

http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_IV_AE/Controls_and_Terminology
Click to expand...
Notice how the arguments you don't agree with give accurate descriptions of "startup is X means the 1st active frame is X" while you resort to vague text that never clearly says "startup is X means the 1st active frame is X+1"

Also: Pick Dudley against Makoto. Dash in and do a forward+LK with Makoto and block afterward. Record it. That is -4 on block and leaves Makoto at point blank so there aren't going to be pushback issues. Now mash Dudley's dragon punches and try to punish it. If the word "REVERSAL" pops on screen the move comes out on the first possible frame. Notice that LP DP (5 frame startup) doesn't punish, yet EX DP (4 frame startup, meaning the 1st active frame is 4) does punish.

Easy test and more definitive than talking about safe jumping.
 
I

IFA Sadistt

Noob
tataki said:
Notice how the arguments you don't agree with give accurate descriptions of "startup is X means the 1st active frame is X" while you resort to vague text that never clearly says "startup is X means the 1st active frame is X+1"

Also: Pick Dudley against Makoto. Dash in and do a forward+LK with Makoto and block afterward. Record it. That is -4 on block and leaves Makoto at point blank so there aren't going to be pushback issues. Now mash Dudley's dragon punches and try to punish it. If the word "REVERSAL" pops on screen the move comes out on the first possible frame. Notice that LP DP (5 frame startup) doesn't punish, yet EX DP (4 frame startup, meaning the 1st active frame is 4) does punish.

Easy test and more definitive than talking about safe jumping.
Click to expand...
Now that you put it like that, it makes sense. I guess that's why they say Zangief's ultra 1 is "0 frame start up" but is listed as 1f start up and can punish -1 moves...

Still though, how is it that you can safe jump 4f reversals. This isn't for sake of argument, I really wonder why that is. Maybe SRK got it wrong to say that the game has 4f landing frames? It would make sense if it was 3 landing frames because you can always throw tech from it just like how you can throw tech even when you're -3...
 
B

Blank

Noob
IFA Sadistt said:
Now that you put it like that, it makes sense. I guess that's why they say Zangief's ultra 1 is "0 frame start up" but is listed as 1f start up and can punish -1 moves...

Still though, how is it that you can safe jump 4f reversals. This isn't for sake of argument, I really wonder why that is. Maybe SRK got it wrong to say that the game has 4f landing frames? It would make sense if it was 3 landing frames because you can always throw tech from it just like how you can throw tech even when you're -3...
Click to expand...

Hi, signed up to answer this.

Landing frames in SF4 work like this (AFAIK). There are 4 frames of landing recovery but it's broken up into 2 categories. The first 2 frames of landing recovery you can't do ANYTHING. The 3rd and 4th frames of landing recovery you can't do anything BUT block.

So against ryu's 3 frame DP what ends up happening is this:

First frame: YOU - last frame of your jumping attack THEM - 1st Frame of their invincible DP
Second frame: YOU - 1st frame of landing recovery, can't do shit THEM - 2nd frame of their invincible DP (still not active)
Third frame YOU - 2nd frame of your landing recovery, still can't block, getting punched in the face THEM - 1st active frame of 3 frame reversal DP punching you in the face.

4 frame normals are safe because by the 4th frame you are still in landing recovery but you can block (just not do anything else).



I should mention, this only applies if you do a NORMAL attack jump in. If you do an empty jump there is less of a landing recovery penalty, you can do anything but move/dash/jump in this case which is why you can 'empty jump' 3 frame DP's all day long.


(EDIT) RE Zangief's 0 frame startup ultra. It's listed as that because their's literally NOTHING you can do to prevent Zangief's ultra from landing unless you did something before the ultra animation to prevent it (jump, invincible/throw immune move). Once that screen freezes for the ultra if you aren't in an unthrowable state (or in range) you're ass is thrown.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.