Why zoning is such a problem in injustice..

[M4stersplint3r]

- No, that makes no sense going on training mode will not help you get past zoners, come back when you know what you're talking about

Actually if you understand what you can do in training it's a huge help to get past zoners. You should spend more time in the lab and come back when you know what you're talking about. Or even try a zoner and see what it's like to be them.

 

[Red Reaper]

Green Arrow has amazing zoning. You have to work hard to get in on him! And once he lands 100 arrows you lost a full life bar! C'mon man. What is a casual player supposed to do?

 

[Jaku2011]

- No, that makes no sense going on training mode will not help you get past zoners, come back when you know what you're talking about

Actually you're 100% wrong about that. I agree that someone like Superman shouldn't have such a ridiculous zoning game but you can definitely find holes and punishes in training.

 

[The_Atom45]

Actually you're 100% wrong about that. I agree that someone like Superman shouldn't have such a ridiculous zoning game but you can definitely find holes and punishes in training.

- Not really man other people agree that training wont do you much good because when you're actually in a match every match up is different and in order to know that you'd have spend many hours on training mode which wont even GUARANTEE that you'll get better, but maybe I was too harsh when I said that it makes no sense but point in blank I dont think training will improve your ability to get past zoners..

 

[Jaku2011]

- Not really man other people agree that training wont do you much good because when you're actually in a match every match up is different and in order to know that you'd have spend many hours on training mode which wont even GUARANTEE that you'll get better, but maybe I was too harsh when I said that it makes no sense but point in blank I dont think training will improve your ability to get past zoners..

So basically you just don't want to put the time into figuring it out. That's fine but then what do you expect to happen if you don't know what to do. You've already said that you're a casual Grundy takes work to play, Lobo as well you can't just expect to do well if you're not practicing your shit. Sometimes there are characters that take a lot more work, Gen in Street Fighter 4, Setsuka in Soul Calibur 4 did casuals use these characters? No they picked Mitsurugi or Ken maybe you'd do better if you picked a simpler character.

Also again your wrong about training mode, it's not really an opinion it's kind've a fact. You don't have time to see what works against something in a real match because so much goes on you really only find out stuff (like say what punish you use versus lanterns lift from far away) through trying it in training. You don't play much expect to lose a lot. I play Halo whenever I'm hanging with friends do I ever win? Hell no

 

[The_Atom45]

So basically you just don't want to put the time into figuring it out. That's fine but then what do you expect to happen if you don't know what to do. You've already said that you're a casual Grundy takes work to play, Lobo as well you can't just expect to do well if you're not practicing your shit. Sometimes there are characters that take a lot more work, Gen in Street Fighter 4, Setsuka in Soul Calibur 4 did casuals use these characters? No they picked Mitsurugi or Ken maybe you'd do better if you picked a simpler character.

Also again your wrong about training mode, it's not really an opinion it's kind've a fact. You don't have time to see what works against something in a real match because so much goes on you really only find out stuff (like say what punish you use versus lanterns lift from far away) through trying it in training. You don't play much expect to lose a lot. I play Halo whenever I'm hanging with friends do I ever win? Hell no

- I don't really main Lobo and with Grundy I know how to use him it's just with certain zoners like Sinsetro I cant get past and USING training mode is not a fact but rather an opinion there are some players who prefer to just against that player and rematch until they have understood the matchup.

 

[Jaku2011]

Well ok then

 

[Red Venom]

So basically you just don't want to put the time into figuring it out. That's fine but then what do you expect to happen if you don't know what to do. You've already said that you're a casual Grundy takes work to play, Lobo as well you can't just expect to do well if you're not practicing your shit. Sometimes there are characters that take a lot more work, Gen in Street Fighter 4, Setsuka in Soul Calibur 4 did casuals use these characters? No they picked Mitsurugi or Ken maybe you'd do better if you picked a simpler character.

Also again your wrong about training mode, it's not really an opinion it's kind've a fact. You don't have time to see what works against something in a real match because so much goes on you really only find out stuff (like say what punish you use versus lanterns lift from far away) through trying it in training. You don't play much expect to lose a lot. I play Halo whenever I'm hanging with friends do I ever win? Hell no

This ^^^ now and in future arguments

 

[mistermoo]

How to address problems in games, the workplace, relationships, or life:

• Option A: Bitch about it.
• Option B: Look for a solution.

You're forgetting:
Option C: Use logical arguments to shed light on said problems so that those with power may fix it, only to for your efforts to be dismissed by flippant asshats.

 

[Gurpwnder]

Jaku2011

To expand on Atom's response, zoning is generally not so one dimensional that it boils down to simply learning how to avoid the projectile. I believe that Atom should become more familiar with the general spacing that each zoner prefers, and how they tend to follow up their projectiles. I believe lessons like these will better come from actual matchup experience than a dummy recording. While you are right, training mode is a very useful tool to learn anything, I believe that Atom will be 'trained' better by learning the habits of zoners instead.

 

[Jaku2011]

Jaku2011

To expand on Atom's response, zoning is generally not so one dimensional that it boils down to simply learning how to avoid the projectile. I believe that Atom should become more familiar with the general spacing that each zoner prefers, and how they tend to follow up their projectiles. I believe lessons like these will better come from actual matchup experience than a dummy recording. While you are right, training mode is a very useful tool to learn anything, I believe that Atom will be 'trained' better by learning the habits of zoners instead.

That's not wrong it's a combination of both. But it takes a lot of matches to figure out what to do in a certain situation. With training mode you can just put yourself in said situation and try it again and again until you know what you need to do. Then all you need to do is remember to do it in a match. It all boils down to putting the time in. (I'm not talking 1000 hours here)

 

[The_Atom45]

You're forgetting:
Option C: Use logical arguments to shed light on said problems so that those with power may fix it, only to for your efforts to be dismissed by flippant asshats.

- Thank you someone who actually read my post before saying that it was just another rant about OP characters...

 

[Gurpwnder]

That's not wrong it's a combination of both. But it takes a lot of matches to figure out what to do in a certain situation. With training mode you can just put yourself in said situation and try it again and again until you know what you need to do. Then all you need to do is remember to do it in a match. It all boils down to putting the time in. (I'm not talking 1000 hours here)

Yeah, you're right - a combination of experience and lab time would probably end up servicing him the most. The reason I lean towards playing matchups is because everyone can zone differently than what Atom expects, so getting him out there and having him experience all these different zoning tactics will expand his knowledge much quicker.

 

[SilverKeyMan]

You're forgetting:
Option C: Use logical arguments to shed light on said problems so that those with power may fix it, only to for your efforts to be dismissed by flippant asshats.

And that would be fine if this were the first time it had been addressed, or if the OP wanted to contribute his/her thoughts in one of the numerous "zoning" threads that already exist. But unfortunately the OP couldn't be bothered to see what has already been said on this subject, and instead decided to create their own thread, rehashing many points already addressed. Nothing in this thread is new or insightful.

Now maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps the OP did check out the other threads, but somehow feels that their response is worthy of its own thread because the OP is "special" and deserves the attention. Or I'm a "flippant asshat" for not showering praise on the OP for regurgitating what has already been said on the subject.

 

[The_Atom45]

And that would be fine if this were the first time it had been addressed, or if the OP wanted to contribute his/her thoughts in one of the numerous "zoning" threads that already exist. But unfortunately the OP couldn't be bothered to see what has already been said on this subject, and instead decided to create their own thread, rehashing many points already addressed. Nothing in this thread is new or insightful.

Now maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps the OP did check out the other threads, but somehow feels that their response is worthy of its own thread because the OP is "special" and deserves the attention. Or I'm a "flippant asshat" for not showering praise on the OP for regurgitating what has already been said on the subject.

- I checked most of the zoning threads and most of them was just on one aspect of why zoning plays such a large role in injustice, but for my thread I combined all of them and stated my opinion on it.. But this was thread was mainly meant for casuals because i know the hardcore crowd has no problem getting past zoners. But mainly you just had to be an ass about it and not even tell me what i was wrong about or that threads for this topic already exist.

 

[SilverKeyMan]

- I checked most of the zoning threads and most of them was just on one aspect of why zoning plays such a large role in injustice, but for my thread I combined all of them and stated my opinion on it.. But this was thread was mainly meant for casuals because i know the hardcore crowd has no problem getting past zoners. But mainly you just had to be an ass about it and not even tell me what i was wrong about or that threads for this topic already exist.

So you're special. Gotcha.

 

[Sao87]

The problem is walk speed is horrible and the recovery on dash makes it not a viable way to approach. We've stated this neumerous times when the game launched only to be told by the guys who tested that we will get used to it.

If movement was identical in mortal kombat everyone would have quit it by now. Shit I remember when they accidently fucked up dash buffers with a patch and everyone was livid.

 

[The_Atom45]

So you're special. Gotcha.

- And you're a douche, Gotcha

 

[mistermoo]

And that would be fine if this were the first time it had been addressed, or if the OP wanted to contribute his/her thoughts in one of the numerous "zoning" threads that already exist. But unfortunately the OP couldn't be bothered to see what has already been said on this subject, and instead decided to create their own thread, rehashing many points already addressed. Nothing in this thread is new or insightful.

Now maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps the OP did check out the other threads, but somehow feels that their response is worthy of its own thread because the OP is "special" and deserves the attention. Or I'm a "flippant asshat" for not showering praise on the OP for regurgitating what has already been said on the subject.

Except that's not what you expressed. You didn't say anything like "We've discussed this before" or the tired "This thread again." All you did was imply OP was whining when he's obviously not. So just stop.

 

[K3DC]

So basically you just don't want to put the time into figuring it out. That's fine but then what do you expect to happen if you don't know what to do. You've already said that you're a casual Grundy takes work to play, Lobo as well you can't just expect to do well if you're not practicing your shit. Sometimes there are characters that take a lot more work, Gen in Street Fighter 4, Setsuka in Soul Calibur 4 did casuals use these characters? No they picked Mitsurugi or Ken maybe you'd do better if you picked a simpler character.

Also again your wrong about training mode, it's not really an opinion it's kind've a fact. You don't have time to see what works against something in a real match because so much goes on you really only find out stuff (like say what punish you use versus lanterns lift from far away) through trying it in training. You don't play much expect to lose a lot. I play Halo whenever I'm hanging with friends do I ever win? Hell no

Why does everyone talk like fighting they are full time job. I'm pretty sure that he did not pay $60 to spend the majority of his time in training mode. He does not need training mode as much as he needs information. What's he going to learn in training mode when he doesn't know what to practice and the cpu spamming projectiles isn't like someone online spamming projectiles waiting to get a full combo on a dash/jump.

 

[RIF]

Zoning is not a problem in this game. At all. There are characters that hard counter keep-away in this game.

 

[SilverKeyMan]

Except that's not what you expressed. You didn't say anything like "We've discussed this before" or the tired "This thread again." All you did was imply OP was whining when he's obviously not. So just stop.

First, this is another whiny zoning thread. Nothing gets solved by creating these, and few (if any) character specific strategies are mentioned to help the OP get around his issue.

Second, there are a tonne of other threads just like this one. However the OP thought that his special brand of crybaby deserved its own thread because he somehow added something unique to the conversation.

So in retrospect you are correct, I should have rephrased my original post as:

1. Quit your bitching.
2. Learn how to use the search button.

 

[Reauxbot]

The zoomed out camera and screen space exist to guarantee that the players know the geography of the stage they're playing on, allowing us to see the interactables we have access to. This can't be changed.

Sometimes you'll have to walk back to block an overhead projectile, man. It happens. The only way you can counteract these matchup specific problems is to be gaining ground faster than you lose it from your back-walk.

Grinding matchups is the way to get this stuff done. Find a player dedicated to the character you hate, and play 15 matches against them, in a row, without switching characters. Your thoughts on that character will have changed, sometimes dramatically. You'll make a discovery, or formulate a strategy, if you stay open-minded in the matchup.

You can't really improve by playing KOTH, and having to wait after losing..
It's gotta be 1v1, until you're completely familiar with the opponents tool set.

Thank god you said that "Its gotta be 1 v 1 part.
My friend always says that Ill get better by playing KOTH matches with him and his
clan while im learning Harley..
.___.

 

[K3DC]

First, this is another whiny zoning thread. Nothing gets solved by creating these, and few (if any) character specific strategies are mentioned to help the OP get around his issue.

Second, there are a tonne of other threads just like this one. However the OP thought that his special brand of crybaby deserved its own thread because he somehow added something unique to the conversation.

So in retrospect you are correct, I should have rephrased my original post as:

1. Quit your bitching.
2. Learn how to use the search button.

I don't understand why people post things like "oh this thread again" and then get upset at OP for not searching through every single thread. If I have a problem or want to voice my opinion. I'm going to do it, I'm going to go on some indiana jones hunt to find someone else's thread. If you have a problem with it then why read it or why post on it? And your telling him to stop bitching, when your bitching about him using his 1st amendment right.

 

[The_Atom45]

First, this is another whiny zoning thread. Nothing gets solved by creating these, and few (if any) character specific strategies are mentioned to help the OP get around his issue.

Second, there are a tonne of other threads just like this one. However the OP thought that his special brand of crybaby deserved its own thread because he somehow added something unique to the conversation.

So in retrospect you are correct, I should have rephrased my original post as:

1. Quit your bitching.
2. Learn how to use the search button.

- Can you please tell me where in the post did I whine? I never did I only stated problems that I and many other have been experiencing with zoning. Also all of those other zoner threads were all posted before patches & updates so it varies alot. So please just leave because im not going to spend hours looking at every zoning thread to see if it's like mine