Strategy Optimizing the Venom Time in Bane Gameplay

[GGA Max]

Well, I'm looking at the damage difference between using BF1 and DBF3 to finish a combo. The extra damage is roughly 1%. The time saved is roughly half a second. In my mind, when you're in Venom level 3, you do the tackle. That half second matters more. If you're in level 1, the body press is worth, especially if you plan on continuing offense into level 2. When you're in level 2, I kind of have it in the air. Tackle is better if you're running low and want to stop before level 3. Body is press is by far better if you're going to level 3.

Then again, I'm still in the same camp I've been since day 1, which is level 2 venom isn't strong enough. I wish F3(D) were Venomed on level 2 instead of 3 and Super be full Invincible on Level 3. But hey, we're getting off topic.

I've chimed in already on me being fine with the debuff. I truly want them to be making the DB1 actually be the combo ender it was designed for. DB1 doing 20% or doing unscaled 16% damage would instantly make me fine with Bane as is. The argument over debuff/buff shouldn't be done until we feel that the buff/debuffs are addressing a proper movelist, which I don't think Bane has yet.

@NRS: DB1. Make it Happen.

Glad someone else looked into this. But isn't the only combo you can end in a run, 113? And b2,3 but who would do a charge. Unless the dps is better idk.

I think 113xxrun is amazing on block though. It jails everything except supers.

 

[Doombawkz]

Glad someone else looked into this. But isn't the only combo you can end in a run, 113? And b2,3 but who would do a charge. Unless the dps is better idk.

I think 113xxrun is amazing on block though. It jails everything except supers.

123 run on block jails supers except for superman super... and by jails, I mean if you have level 3 venom you'll probably beat theirs out. It beats hawkgirl's super and that's including the AI perfect reaction timing.

Also you can actually link a d.2 into charge usually so you could do pretty much any anti-air into a free charge. Cancelling our fast stands into it will also work (b.23 d.2 d.2/b.23 run) as it'll option select between the normal fast stand and tech rolls. Won't eat through some wake-ups but they don't have much time to put in commands before its showtime.

 

[LEGI0N47]

Glad someone else looked into this. But isn't the only combo you can end in a run, 113? And b2,3 but who would do a charge. Unless the dps is better idk.

I think 113xxrun is amazing on block though. It jails everything except supers.

The ones you can it, it does add about 1% as said. It also connects on f2d on hit. I generally only try f2d on lvl 3 for the armor as it is not 11 frame start up as the game data says. For max damage MB'd cmb grab is 39%, MB Charge is 40%, they're 32 & 31 with no MB. Cmd grab takes up the whole veneom time when MB'd, chrage does not. Only other time I use charge is 113. Love that on hit dash back across the body cross up action.

 

[GGA Max]

The ones you can it, it does add about 1% as said. It also connects on f2d on hit. I generally only try f2d on lvl 3 for the armor as it is not 11 frame start up as the game data says. For max damage MB'd cmb grab is 39%, MB Charge is 40%, they're 32 & 31 with no MB. Cmd grab takes up the whole veneom time when MB'd, chrage does not. Only other time I use charge is 113. Love that on hit dash back across the body cross up action.

Yeah I mean the range isn't great. Do you or Doombawkz have a use for 113? I know it punishes shazams torpedo but that's it.

Doom: I've used such gimmicks especially after a typical background bounce
B23, 12xxbackground bounce, j2 123xx run. But I feel like strong players would sniff that out pretty quickly so I am cautious.

 

[GGA Max]

I've also been experimenting with d2 xx run. But the damage scaling seems to override the dps we'd ideally gain. Please post anything that contradicts this though.

 

[LEGI0N47]

Yeah I mean the range isn't great. Do you or Doombawkz have a use for 113? I know it punishes shazams torpedo but that's it.

Doom: I've used such gimmicks especially after a typical background bounce
B23, 12xxbackground bounce, j2 123xx run. But I feel like strong players would sniff that out pretty quickly so I am cautious.

chief713 posted a video on how to use 113 to punish Auqamans trident rush & scoop wake up. wrecks him clean. I'd be interested to see if that works on any others, haven't tried tbh becuase of Venom all day! I forget about it half the time, but it's a great punish on standing opponenets and I've caught ducking ones on the final overhead a lot.

 

[Doombawkz]

Yeah I mean the range isn't great. Do you or Doombawkz have a use for 113? I know it punishes shazams torpedo but that's it.

Doom: I've used such gimmicks especially after a typical background bounce
B23, 12xxbackground bounce, j2 123xx run. But I feel like strong players would sniff that out pretty quickly so I am cautious.

123 on block is the gimmick, on hit I'd either do 123 ring toss or 12 upper for advantage. As for 113, I've found its handy after using MB f.3 on someone's wake-up. Its +9, forces them to stand-guard, and if you do it properly you'll jail them into the 113. Most people try to react by fuzzy ducking but the overhead eats them. Outside of that, I'll sometimes end combos with d.2 step 113 into charge because it also has its own meaty option select.

MB f.3 beating out the wake-up will give you time to cancel the first jab or two into another combo to capitalize.

I also like to mix it in when I'm doing b.1 double punch on block, since people will go low to high to block it you can make them guard the 113. Even if they don't you should have the advantage enough to get to your 2nd punch before they can retaliate. 113 also does some good distance work. If we do a combo ending in 113 dash (for example, b.23 113 dash) we will end up right on top of them with enough time to buffer in a meaty armored attack to beat out some wake-ups.

 

[GGA Max]

chief713 posted a video on how to use 113 to punish Auqamans trident rush & scoop wake up. wrecks him clean. I'd be interested to see if that works on any others, haven't tried tbh becuase of Venom all day! I forget about it half the time, but it's a great punish on standing opponenets and I've caught ducking ones on the final overhead a lot.

Cool I'll check that out. I admit I've been pretty scrubby on some frame data. I know aqua man is negative if you block that. But I generally don't try to block much when I can armor through most of their BS.

 

[GGA Max]

123 on block is the gimmick, on hit I'd either do 123 ring toss or 12 upper for advantage. As for 113, I've found its handy after using MB f.3 on someone's wake-up. Its +9, forces them to stand-guard, and if you do it properly you'll jail them into the 113. Most people try to react by fuzzy ducking but the overhead eats them. Outside of that, I'll sometimes end combos with d.2 step 113 into charge because it also has its own meaty option select.

MB f.3 beating out the wake-up will give you time to cancel the first jab or two into another combo to capitalize.

I also like to mix it in when I'm doing b.1 double punch on block, since people will go low to high to block it you can make them guard the 113. Even if they don't you should have the advantage enough to get to your 2nd punch before they can retaliate. 113 also does some good distance work. If we do a combo ending in 113 dash (for example, b.23 113 dash) we will end up right on top of them with enough time to buffer in a meaty armored attack to beat out some wake-ups.

Dude who are you playing that blocks you lol. Especially getting to hit a b1 is unbelievable. Everyone just spaces me out.

 

[PND_Mustard]

I don't know how Mustard's scene is. The tourny archive he posted a while back was great. I liked what was shown early on when people were still learning the game. But we're looking to draw data from contemporary results and achievements. Fighting games evolve and change a lot. You can't really keep that one achievement he had weeks ago to apply with current situations. Even if he got that far with Bane early on, I'm sure those Batman and Superman players weren't even near the level of REO/DarthArma/KDZ.

I've never really felt like he needs big overhaul buffs, but I've always been pretty adamant about his venom cuts being a set back in his design. He's not as threatening as a lot of people are making him to be overall and he's considered a non-threat in tournaments. Removing his debuff setbacks is not a luxury, it's a "normalization" as he's the only one suffering from questionable designs. He doesn't need the setbacks.

i practise with the absolute best players in the UK, on a daily basis.

do not question the integrity of my competition when you have not shown any from yourself.

UsedForGlue A F0xy Grampa

 

[LEGI0N47]

Cool I'll check that out. I admit I've been pretty scrubby on some frame data. I know aqua man is negative if you block that. But I generally don't try to block much when I can armor through most of their BS.

Watch it. It's somewhere on the Bane forum. No blocking required, it's a straight up stuff before he can get the move out. Obviously you'd have to read this or punish player habits but I don't run into too many Aquamans who don't do that a lot.

 

[Doombawkz]

Dude who are you playing that blocks you lol. Especially getting to hit a b1 is unbelievable. Everyone just spaces me out.

You might not realize it, but hitting a b.1 is one of the easiest things. You can hit a b.1 off of pretty much any landed d.1. Outside of that, don't be afraid to be a bit liberal with your MB f.3 usage, since that will also allow you to set up the strings.

Bane has a blockstring set that covers the level 3 venom cooldown (with d.1 on hit) That is I think d.1 b.1 223 charge, and you also have other options as well such as staggering and whatnot.

 

[chief713]

chief713 posted a video on how to use 113 to punish Auqamans trident rush & scoop wake up. wrecks him clean. I'd be interested to see if that works on any others, haven't tried tbh becuase of Venom all day! I forget about it half the time, but it's a great punish on standing opponenets and I've caught ducking ones on the final overhead a lot.

It does. You can stuff a lot of attacks after the wakeup invincibility ends and before the startup is over and the move is out. I've actually been thinking about making wakup punish vids for Bane against the whole cast. Maybe 2 per week, going from most problematic characters/wakeups to least.

As far as 113, I use it mainly for punishes on stuff that b23 won't catch and after dashing up. After a while people wise up to dash up, d1/body press/double punch and just jump when they see Bane dash. 113 is good for punishing that if you sniff it out. But now with d2 being buffed, that's probably the better option, especially since it's pretty much a free command grab if they block and the range is better vertically and horizontally.

Also, here's that Aquaman punish vid. Maxintensity25

 

[SUPARNOVAX]

i practise with the absolute best players in the UK, on a daily basis.

do not question the integrity of my competition when you have not shown any from yourself.

UsedForGlue A F0xy Grampa

I never questioned it. I just don't know about the UK/EU scene for MK or whatever to really take results as merit. Just like you probably wouldn't take some unknown tournament results as serious as a bigger organized one.

 

[HardlyWalken]

I always end with Venom Upper unless I need the damage, carry, need to swap sides (Ring Toss) or am heading into debuff and need to burn some time. The positioning after the move is over sets up so much other stuff. Give it a try.

Also Bane doesn't need any buffs for a while, let it play out a bit and see where he is.

 

[GGA Max]

I always end with Venom Upper unless I need the damage, carry, need to swap sides (Ring Toss) or am heading into debuff and need to burn some time. The positioning after the move is over sets up so much other stuff. Give it a try.

Also Bane doesn't need any buffs for a while, let it play out a bit and see where he is.

This x 9000

At 4.4 seconds the ex dbf3 takes the bulk of the level 3 debuff. Burn one bar of meter and get to juice up again right away? Dont have to go hide. Not a bad trade.

 

[GGA Max]

It does. You can stuff a lot of attacks after the wakeup invincibility ends and before the startup is over and the move is out. I've actually been thinking about making wakup punish vids for Bane against the whole cast. Maybe 2 per week, going from most problematic characters/wakeups to least.

As far as 113, I use it mainly for punishes on stuff that b23 won't catch and after dashing up. After a while people wise up to dash up, d1/body press/double punch and just jump when they see Bane dash. 113 is good for punishing that if you sniff it out. But now with d2 being buffed, that's probably the better option, especially since it's pretty much a free command grab if they block and the range is better vertically and horizontally.

Also, here's that Aquaman punish vid. Maxintensity25

Great video, these punishes seem pretty strict timing though. Have you done this consistently in game?

 

[chief713]

Great video, these punishes seem pretty strict timing though. Have you done this consistently in game?

Yea, I have; it's definitely a viable strat. Go and try it in training. The timing actually isn't hard at all. You pretty much press 113 as soon as you see them completely stand.

 

[Nonameformedude]

Dude who are you playing that blocks you lol. Especially getting to hit a b1 is unbelievable. Everyone just spaces me out.

That's really where the 113 string gets the most use outside of being banes main positive string. 113xxcharge leaves you right next to the small body so after a round of lvl1-3 double punches stuffing their shit you can throw in the slow b112xxany for positioning, or b1xxdouble punch, or jail them into a command grab with b11xxbody press.

My normal venom strat is dependent on how I start really, but I usually end strings in the upper for JI d3/safeish d1 double punch follow ups. I typically only end with the grab if I wait to venom in combo because of length of animation, not really worried about the sacrifice in damage because body press is hella easy to follow up with. When venom is running out, I find it best to end in feet down ring toss strings that have the long slam slide animation then just wait for them to come in while back dashing to the corner(I like both bane and Grundy in the corner because with armor and command grabs its ez to reverse the situation for big damage). By the time most get there venom is back. I've found banes meter is pretty not necessary to use unless you are going for a killing shot or supering from a combo, much better used to push block when venom is down because all meter burns push them away, and ring toss has the highest base damage outside of body press, but lets you meta game where you grow then depending on where it's input in the string. Also catching someone in a weird angle for double punch or upper it and having your MB hit air is stupid. As long as I have two bars of meter, I go into level three any chance I get and just use positive strings and push block. Unless I made a terrible read or panic charge bane is in there with no consequences(though there are certain high damage characters that you just down want the risk of level three debuff with. Nothing is more embarrassing then going ham then dying in one combo because you gave them 3 bars and they caught you slipping on debuff).

IMO banes actually pretty good against a lot of the cast, double punch is fast as fuck and if you've got quick hands you can pretty much dominate the start of the match on most stages. The only change I would ask for is not having my interactable damage affected by debuff. It's turns interactables into a method of buying time for venom to come back instead of an element in banes game/meta game. All other debuff are fair to me. Every disadvantage can be worked around through his kit, and the meta game is deadly. Medium risk, high reward

 

[Doombawkz]

I used the ji3 into body press at evo, rolled some heads. Also at level 3 IMO it's best to do MB db2 as an ender. 48% and 2 second off the venom timer plus them having to get all the way back in.

 

[GGA Max]

I used the ji3 into body press at evo, rolled some heads. Also at level 3 IMO it's best to do MB db2 as an ender. 48% and 2 second off the venom timer plus them having to get all the way back in.

I never thought of using it as a Venom level 3 ender, good shit.

 

[Doombawkz]

I never thought of using it as a Venom level 3 ender, good shit.

Yeah, got in with a level 3 charge, finished it out with a b.23 b.23 12 MB VU. 50% on top of 26%, and only had to work the full screen for 4 seconds. By the time he got back in, I was already back in business.

 

[GGA Max]

That's really where the 113 string gets the most use outside of being banes main positive string. 113xxcharge leaves you right next to the small body so after a round of lvl1-3 double punches stuffing their shit you can throw in the slow b112xxany for positioning, or b1xxdouble punch, or jail them into a command grab with b11xxbody press.

Yeah, I need to start hitting / going for 113. It seems that only good can come of this lol.

 

[Nonameformedude]

Yeah, I need to start hitting / going for 113. It seems that only good can come of this lol.

Its a really really nice string that I honestly forget to use way to often. After a JD3 is blocked the 113 also comes out pretty fast and will catch many people sliping. Canceling that into a charge on block keeps bane pretty safe, and leaves him at nice d1 range. Just dont abuse it, and know your recovery or you will get blown up inputting moves seconds too early and having just a raw 1 or 2 come out. Also I havent been in the lab with bane in a while but I'm pretty sure a body press off of the recovery of a blocked 113xxcharge will hit just perfectly.

 

[Doombawkz]

Yep. You can also do 113 neutral grab. Your at advantage enough to get it out before some of the slower attacks can, so against Grundy, shazam, and lex it's a pretty handy tool