Strategy Green Arrow Reset and Mix-Up Options

[Karnage]

EDIT - added a section on cross ups after 11 arrow.

Alright guys, since the reset has already been mentioned by Mr EddyWang i will just release everything i have written down, some of you may know it already but i have literally exhausted all options, found out ways to beat what they do. GA has some really good options!!

Anyways...here goes...

STANDING RESETS + FOLLOW UP PRESSURE
RESET Combos
Midscreen
113, j2, 11, down ice arrow, j1 11 (24%)
B3, j3, 11 down ice arrow, j1 11 (27%)
J3, 22/11 ice arrow j1 11 (21%)
J3 11 bbMB 1 down ice arrow, j1 11 36% 2 bars
F2d13 >> 11 down ice arrow j1 11 (20%)
SUPER, b3, j3, 11 down ice arrow j1 11 (50%)
SUPER, b3 >> d2 db4, 11 ice arrow, j1 11 (45%)
Corner
F2d13 111 xx sky alert 11 down ice arrow j1 11 (32%)
J3 111 sky alert, 11 down ice arrow j1 11 (35%)

MIX UPS AFTER RESET - After the reset b2/f2 are guaranteed (they must be blocked)
Pressure Strings
B2 low arrow – block standing then low
F2 d1 low arrow – block low then low
Launcher
F2 d1 3 low overhead – block low then stand

End the reset with 11 arrow allows pretty much the same options for just 11 - they do the same damage however the MASSIVE difference here is that 11 arrow is easier to read(readying the opponent to block) so personally i will just end the reset in 11, its a little bit more subtle. The good thing about ending the reset with 11 arrow is that the follow up throw is easier to time.

11 xx arrow CROSS UPS - ADDED - 11 and 11 arrow are very similiar except for the cross up capabilities.
Another difference with ending in 11 arrow is that a follow up j3 on a cross up can only be blocked or forward dashed HOWEVER if you decide you do not want to cross up they cant do anything but block, so by timing the j3 early to not cross up or later to cross up its really a 50/50 guess. add in the mixup of f2/b2 and b3 you have everything right there to beat counter pokes/jumps/back dashing

11 +21 frame advantage - follow ups:
·Throw – cant be counter poked/jumped – only backdashed
·F2 cant be counter poked/jumped/backdashed – will keep them grounded
·B2 cant be counter poked/jumped/backdashed – will keep them grounded
·Slide will beat counter pokes/jumps/backdash
·B3 will beat any counter pokes(maybe not 6frame)/jumps/backdash
·11 trait arrow – a d1 follow up can only be counter poked by a 6/7 frame move, can be backdashed (plus I cant really see the point in using this)

We want to train them to not counter poke, thats when we can start smashing out b3's after the reset to get some massive damage when they try to backdash or jump, and end in stocking another arrow.

In my experience opponents usually block low, to block f2d1 after the reset, thats when i start using b2 low arrow. b2 on hit guarantees the low arrow hit.

After resetting and hitting 11 – f213 can be easy to block so start using b2 on ducking opponents
B2 down arrow on hit follow ups:
·throw – cannot be counter poked only backdashed/jumped
·f2 – cannot be counter poked/jumped can be backdashed
·b2 – 6 frame move will beat it, will beat backdash/jumps
·hurricane bow will beat all backdashes jumps counter pokes
·b3 will beat back dash and neutral jump but can be counter poked
·If they backdash – slide/high arrow/j3/ will beat it
·If they jump – d2/j3/up haven blast/up haven mb(push to corner) are the answers.

F2 d1 low arrow –
·throw will whiff
·f2 will whiff on backdash
·b2 will whiff on backdash/neutral jump
·hurricane bow will beat all backdashes jumps counter pokes
·b3 will hit back dash
·slide and normal arrow will beat backdash

·d2 will hit if they jump

The mix up potential with GA is pretty insane, after the reset they have to guess throw? b2 overhead? f2d1? slide? hurricane bow?

Also worth mentioning, from throw distance GA's F2 seems to beat a hell alot of wake ups...i wouldnt rely on it, seems hit and miss, will probably be the next thing i work on.

I hope some of you guys find this of some use, its actually really helped me writing this down as i now have in my mind an answer to everything they do, they way it should be!!!

Jimmypotato
GodsLonelyman
7L
Red Reaper
SimSim
Scoot Magee
Eddy Wang

 

[knight x1868]

Good stuff.
For the first corner combo, after ji1,11 are you reloading ice arrow?

 

[Cossner]

Isn't F2D1 xx Arrow better than 11?

 

[JaredL]

You could include F2D13D4/F2d13UB4 as a mix up at the end.

UB4 can be escaped with armoured B3 or jump back. However, if you try to armour B3 or jump back in response to D4, you'll get hit. I do think its possible to fuzzy this, however, its very unlikely that you will be punished and it makes F2D13 a double mix up if you have an ice arrow loaded.

 

[Karnage]

Knight - sorry i should have said, usually i will try and have an ice arrow loaded before going into the corner combos, im sure its possible to get the reset without having an ice arrow first, ill have to try it tomorrow.

Dont think so cossner, they get hit by the 11 whatever after the ice arrow giving us + frames, i think by using an arrow at the end of the reset you are just readying them to block, plus ending in 11 leaves you in a perfect position to carry on pressuring or throw.

Yup sorry JaredL, i should have, i was literally thinking of ways to keep them standing without knocking them down, and chipping away at them pretty much mind f*cking them after the reset.

Yeah its so difficult to fuzzy guard, but...if you have them worried about blocking you get the throw.

I will add f2d13d4 and f2d13ub4 tomorrow, dont have access to an xbox atm.

 

[Scoot Magee]

A lot of times when I land a raw move that lands a juggle I end with ice arrow, load arrow then f2d1 low ice or f2d13 low ice. It can be push blocked but it leads to more damage. The thing that's good is it gets you another ice arrow setup if they don't want to burn meter on push block.

Btw if they are back dashing after f2d1 low arrow I usually just dash in after them in anticipation.

 

[Red Reaper]

A lot of times when I land a raw move that lands a juggle I end with ice arrow, load arrow then f2d1 low ice or f2d13 low ice. It can be push blocked but it leads to more damage. The thing that's good is it gets you another ice arrow setup if they don't want to burn meter on push block.

Btw if they are back dashing after f2d1 low arrow I usually just dash in after them in anticipation.

I think it sacrifices too much damage, so I keep it to minimum.

 

[Red Reaper]

Also worth mentioning, from throw distance GA's F2 seems to beat a hell alot of wake ups...i wouldnt rely on it, seems hit and miss, will probably be the next thing i work on.

This is because a lot of wake ups aren't fully invincible. This was the first thing I tested..

Overall, I still think the full kombo is better but I think I'll start using this on characters who have great wake ups like Shazam. I still don't think this is that good as stuffing wake ups or punishing them is a higher reward.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I think it sacrifices too much damage, so I keep it to minimum.

It's a must against Aquaman though. That's when I started using it. Honestly though after doing a full juggle and ending with the ice arrow and damage after that is scaled pretty heavily. I lose a few % damage to go for another 50/50.

 

[Red Reaper]

It's a must against Aquaman though. That's when I started using it. Honestly though after doing a full juggle and ending with the ice arrow and damage after that is scaled pretty heavily. I lose a few % damage to go for another 50/50.

You kan stuff his wake ups though.. Sure it's hard, but we have a good practice mode now.

31% vs 14%-20%

I'd rather have the 31%.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Isn't F2D1 xx Arrow better than 11?

Framely no. F2d1 is 0 frames on hit.
11 is +21.
However, f2d1 recovery frames is 36 and has lot of hit pushback, but both characters will be able to move at the same time.
11 on hit is +21 but the recovery frames is 15, so GA will move first by 6 frames ahead.

Anyone tested with jump 3 after 11?

 

[Cossner]

Dont think so cossner, they get hit by the 11 whatever after the ice arrow giving us + frames, i think by using an arrow at the end of the reset you are just readying them to block, plus ending in 11 leaves you in a perfect position to carry on pressuring or throw.

Framely no. F2d1 is 0 frames on hit.
11 is +21.
However, f2d1 recovery frames is 36 and has lot of hit pushback, but both characters will be able to move at the same time.
11 on hit is +21 but the recovery frames is 15, so GA will move first by 6 frames ahead.

Anyone tested with jump 3 after 11?

F2d1 xx arrow is a little bit more than +27 on hit (don't know the exact number).
You can pretty much follow up with everything on the list above (except b2, which will hit them in the air if you dash in and b2), and it's 2% more.

http://testyourmight.com/threads/green-arrows-pressure-options.30509/

The second dot in Useful Tips.

 

[Karnage]

Cossner im not convinced f2d1arrow is the best way to end the reset, you dont get the guaranteed throw plus alot of GA's mixup strings will whiff on a backdash. 11 you have the throw, even if they try to jump after 11 they will still get hit by b2/f2and wont even leave the floor so pressure can fully continue, in my opinion the only string is 11 - frame recovery is so quick it looks like you are continuing the combo.

Eddy Wang - i tried j3, it seems to be good for backdashing and jumpers after landing 11, but you cant really combo from j3 after a backdash because of the distance. do you mean using it as a crossup after 11??

i guess you can anticipate the backdash and dash in but you can counter the backdash with other options after 11

 

[Eddy Wang]

Cossner im not convinced f2d1arrow is the best way to end the reset, you dont get the guaranteed throw plus alot of GA's mixup strings will whiff on a backdash. 11 you have the throw, even if they try to jump after 11 they will still get hit by b2/f2and wont even leave the floor so pressure can fully continue, in my opinion the only string is 11 - frame recovery is so quick it looks like you are continuing the combo.

Eddy Wang - do you mean using it as a crossup after 11??

yes ^^ seems to become ambiguous

 

[Karnage]

i remember testing it, i know it get beats by a couple of things im sure thats why i didnt include, give me 20mins and ill report back

 

[Karnage]

j3 will whiff if they jump or forward dash plus they can d2 on the cross up - seems like there is no real guarantee as the cross up takes a little longer to hit - but as part of GA's mixup game as a whole it could come in use

however if you use 11 arrow they can literally only dash forward to beat the cross up...and if they start dashing forward it creates so many more oppourtinities, i guess i overlooked j3

Eddy Wang

 

[Scoot Magee]

You kan stuff his wake ups though.. Sure it's hard, but we have a good practice mode now.

31% vs 14%-20%

I'd rather have the 31%.

I'm saying it's good against aquaman because of trait. Once your freeze him he activates, I load another ice while he's frozen and 50/50 him to nullify the trait.

Also against other characters if you get the 50/50 you double your damage, if you miss you sacrifice like 5-10%. Remember the first combo is unscaled because it was landed off of something like a raw mb b3. I don't hit those that often but when I do and I need the damage I go for the 50/50 at the end, especially if I need the damage.

 

[Cossner]

Cossner im not convinced f2d1arrow is the best way to end the reset, you dont get the guaranteed throw plus alot of GA's mixup strings will whiff on a backdash. 11 you have the throw, even if they try to jump after 11 they will still get hit by b2/f2and wont even leave the floor so pressure can fully continue, in my opinion the only string is 11 - frame recovery is so quick it looks like you are continuing the combo.

No you don't, you still get the throw...

Either way, you can also do b2 xx arrow, and that way you won't lose the b2 afterwards. (1% more than 11, pretty much the exact same thing except the timing of the throw is easier in b2 xx arrow). Also b2 xx arrow is way better if you want to cross up.

Dude, I don't want to be mean but this is literally day 1 stuff... I posted it and got blown up :S

 

[Karnage]

it maybe is day 1 stuff, it isnt that difficult to figure out, i just wanted to know what guarantees there were after hitting certain strings/arrow and there is not a real in depth place where all this sort of stuff is organised, there is the pressure thread that is stickied but i think it was missing a few things that i go into on this thread.

it doesnt matter what string you use if you end in arrow you still get the throw it just changes the spacing a little.
i just tried b2 arrow and compared it to 11 arrow, the throw is exactly the same except when it comes to crossing up...
11 arrow is easier to hit not crossing up and i cant tell any difference when you do cross up...therefore being a 50/50 on the cross up

i never ever said this was new tech!

 

[Cossner]

it doesnt matter what string you use if you end in arrow you still get the throw it just changes the spacing a little.
i just tried b2 arrow and compared it to 11 arrow, the throw is exactly the same except when it comes to crossing up...
11 arrow is easier to hit not crossing up and i cant tell any difference when you do cross up...therefore being a 50/50 on the cross up

What? You get almost 10 frames more!

Framely no. F2d1 is 0 frames on hit.
11 is +21.
However, f2d1 recovery frames is 36 and has lot of hit pushback, but both characters will be able to move at the same time.
11 on hit is +21 but the recovery frames is 15, so GA will move first by 6 frames ahead.

Anyone tested with jump 3 after 11?

I just realized, that's why you said 11 was +6, and that's why you said f2d1 was 0 on hit. Eddy Wang that's not how frame data works lol it's not Frames on block - Recovery Frames lololol if not every string would be full combo punishable lolol

 

[Karnage]

how do you get 10 frames more? you end both the strings with an arrow? so surely its the same frame advantage

 

[Eddy Wang]

What? You get almost 10 frames more!


I just realized, that's why you said 11 was +6, and that's why you said f2d1 was 0 on hit. Eddy Wang that's not how frame data works lol it's not Frames on block - Recovery Frames lololol if not every string would be full combo punishable lolol

and again you seemed to not understand, that is not how i did the calculations.

I subtracted hit adv - recovery (duration)

 

[Cossner]

how do you get 10 frames more? you end both the strings with an arrow? so surely its the same frame advantage

More than 11.

and again you seemed to not understand, that is not how i did the calculations.

I subtracted hit adv - recovery (duration)

That is not how it works Eddy. Then on block everything would be - half a second lol. With that calculation, d1 would be -10 on hit...

 

[Karnage]

how does b2 arrow have more frame advantage than 11 arrow though?? i know arrow has more advantage than just 11 on its own.

 

[Cossner]

how does b2 arrow have more frame advantage than 11 arrow though?? i know arrow has more advantage than just 11 on its own.

You literally just added the 11 xx arrow thing. Either way, you get more damage from f2d1 xx arrow and a bit tiny bit more from b2 xx arrow. 11 xx arrow works, but yeah you literally just added that.