Counter picking, do you do it? Fair or unfair.

[evansgambit]

Recently, I've been wiping the floor with my Cage against an opponent's Scorpion. Now he's going to start counter picking, and using Sub Zero, everytime I use Cage.

I told him, fair enough.

If he uses Scorpion, I'll use Cage.
If he uses Sub Zero, I'll use Cage.
If he uses Shao Kahn, I'll use Cage.
If he uses Michael Jordan, I'll use Cage.

This got me thinking, how does the game handle counter picking? And is it fair to counter pick as opposed to "not knowing who your opponent is"

For me its not a problem, cause each day and every day, I'm Cage Costume 2. Although, I've been forced to use Liu Kang as my tag team partner when required - its a shame, I can't do DOUBLE CAGE, and why can't I? Double anything should be just as legitimate. Or maybe just give me two life bars with the ONE Cage.

Anyway, what would happen if the opponents were "counter pick" aware, and pretty much waited for the other person to pick first. Who picks first? And would it take two years before the first round begins to load? ;-)

Now let's discuss, both sides of the counter-picking issue and whether its a fair principle.

Keep in mind the question, Who picks first? I suppose if you want to be a gentlemen, ladies first.

 

[Eight]

I have confidence in my game so I will always pick first. If I can't handle any character with my chosen main, I shouldn't be playing him.

If you're really concerned about counter picking, just use the hidden selector option.

Just my two cents.

 

[Mr Roguelike]

No, I don't counter pick. Cause I haven't put enough time into another character to feel comfortable lol

 

[GNG Iniquity]

Personally, I preferred the old school Japanese rules where you HAD to master one character, where you weren't allowed to swap out characters in between rounds. That forced people to master their characters, completely. Now...it's just "Well, this guy has a 6 to 4 advantage, I'll use him!" Pfft.

I don't do it. In a lot of ways I feel the whole notion of tier lists and counter picking has delegitimized the fighting game community. So what if your character isn't top tier? Couldn't he theoretically be top tier in the right hands once given enough practice with him? Ultimately my opinion on the subject differs from some and my competitive nature isn't as high as others. It's not that I don't enjoy winning, but eh, I don't really give a crap if I lose. You can't make a career out of tournaments these days. It's a hobby for me ultimately and that's it.

inb4 "Well you play Reptile, he's S tier, yada yada"
I still play Sektor, and if I entered a tournament with Sektor, I'd play Sektor through it.

 

[Juggs]

Counter picking is fine. In a tournament, they have rules to prevent counter picking at the character select screen. Such as, both players start with a pre-determined character, and only the loser can change his character if he loses. So if you win first, then he counter picks and beats you, now you're given the option to counter pick him. I'm not 100% on the MK9 rules, but I'm sure they wouldn't be too much different than this.

As far as counter picking online... I'd welcome it. A chance to get match-up experience vs a hard match-up for my character? Yes please.

 

[lobo]

counter picking is a legit strategy, and it is as old as FG tournaments. if you don't like it hide the cursor. in most tournament settings in other games you have the option to change character if you lose a match to counter your opponent, and they can do the same if you beat them in turn. it is competitive fighting 101.

edit: dammit jugg beat me to it :/

 

[Tim Static]

Counter picking is a tatic. Now use it to your advantage when available and allowed.

 

[Kakimori]

No, I don't really care about it. I feel like the characters in this game are pretty balanced and I should be able to beat anyone with my chosen main. If I lose, it's because I choked or I didn't put in enough work, not because of who my opponent chose to play as.

 

[Kweli]

If i notice someone constantly counter-picking I will hide my cursor and try some "mix ups"

 

[ChaseRLewis]

Given how one sided certain matchups can be counter picking or at least picking another character can be your only way of winning.

If i played dictator in street fighter you bet your ass I'd pick someone else if they picked guile. There's no use sticking to a character if dumb scenarios are introduced where your only way of winning is your opponent sucking.

How people play kang - saibot i do not understand maybe post patch it's better but pre-patch it's an 8-2 where assuming saibot can block low you really can't win with any consistency.

 

[Zerosoulreaver]

I always notice people counter picking online. It never effects my gameplay though and I could care less.

I never counter pick, I just pick the characters I like playing.

If you always counter pick how do you learn match ups? Though I can understand those who already know match ups and counter pick.

 

[ultrasimmons]

I have no issue with counter picking, but I've never cared to do it myself. I'll play Smoke or Kabal against anyone, I think this game is fair enough that even in a difficult matchup, your knowledge of the character gives you the real upper hand.

 

[Badboy Takuma]

i do a lot of counter pic, but only against noobs/spammer, against good player i do not!
why?
i mean should i use my sonya against a random/rofl raiden or a spamm n. saibot?
NO I DONT, its waste of time, i that cases i do counter pic, just 4 fun.

tsung is a interesting char in this case

 

[evansgambit]

I never knew you could hide the cursor. Thanks. This would come in handle when I pick my tag team, so I can match Cage with Scorpion and Liu Kang with Sub Zero - in the event of a counter pick. ;-) At least I can use this to change my team's batting order.

I voted that it was unfair, though within the context of social gaming ONLY. I came to this reasoning, as counter-picking is based on tier or match up principles, which we know that not all matchups are created equal. From beginners to high level play, its a factor. Again, the question is who picks first? If player 1 picks first, player 2 has the opportunity to counter-pick. Knowing this, player 1 should let player 2 pick first. But why would player 2 want to pick first? Then two years later, we're still at the same character selection screen.

In competitive play, there are rules that govern counter-picking, to bring about fairness, as suggested by OJuggernautO. Pre-determined characters. The rule that only the losing player gets to counter pick, I see as just. Because either player would have equal opportunities to counter pick, but both would prefer to be the winning player instead - Winning instead of counterpicking.

Now Tim Static stated that if given the opportunity to counter pick, we should. This is fair game, as we all play this game to win, and any edge over the field is no doubt a good thing. But does ends justify means? Is it better to figure out how to beat a character with your own character, or to counter pick and take the easier ride home. Can't say I blame anyone for doing the later. Play to win. And if you can "master" mulitple characters to a high level, then good for you.

In conclusion, for social gaming, my stance is still "unfair" because in theory, your taking the favourable matchup, taking that edge over your opponent. Mind you, you have to put in the hard work to manhandle many characters, that you'll probably deserve it in the end.

 

[Richmatic]

Counter Picking is lame like when I pick a rushdown character like Lui or Cage first then somebody picks noob saibot because he knows I won't have a way in. Online it helps to learn match ups. At a tournament counterpicking is needed so having a pocket zoner, rushdown, anti zone or counter is a good strategy.

edit: if you lose with your main because of bad guesses then you should change your approach that where being a smart player comes into play

 

[Abudabi]

Counterpick? You mean select Kung Lao 24/7?

 

[MK Peanuts]

Given how one sided certain matchups can be counter picking or at least picking another character can be your only way of winning.

If i played dictator in street fighter you bet your ass I'd pick someone else if they picked guile. There's no use sticking to a character if dumb scenarios are introduced where your only way of winning is your opponent sucking.

How people play kang - saibot i do not understand maybe post patch it's better but pre-patch it's an 8-2 where assuming saibot can block low you really can't win with any consistency.

Agreed. I main Liu Kang and I'm trying to learn how to play Smoke so that I have someone to switch to if my opponent picks Noob Saibot. I'm not especially confident in my Smoke yet, though, so if it happened in a tournament I would probably just try to stick it out with Liu Kang.

 

[GStick]

Counter picking is fine when it's under tournament rules. Online, people usually pretend to be inactive to see who you choose, but whatever. It's stupid, but it's online and I'm never going to change my character between matches anyway so it's not a big deal.

 

[Dan]

Counterpick? You mean select Kung Lao 24/7?

LOL!! I was just thinking the same thing when I red this post.

 

[salvificblood]

The funniest is when a Kung Lao player uses the hidden cursor.

By the way, it should be: I counterpick AND I think it's fair.

 

[MKF30]

Not a huge fan, never was of counter picking with fighters with no "mystery or invisible cursor option" but honestly....I don't care at this point since they put in the invisible option so people want to play games on the select screen, I can play too

I play people daily who do it to me, I just don't say anything but will go invisible lol to screw with their heads. And if I play someone online who's just going to move the cursor around until I pick or sit there, I'll pick invisible right off the bat.

The hilarious thing though is 9 times out of 10, most people who counterpick pick Kung Lao or Raiden half the time even when they choose the invisible option lol

 

[evansgambit]

The way I see things, counter picking is exploiting the game engines's imbalance. Not to the same level or degree as exploiting a block infinite. But its exploiting an edge created from faults in the game - the failure to balance matchups. Though, not as devasting as using an outright glitch, it still comes from the same principle.

In the perfect world, all matchups should be equal 5:5, so that no matter which character you pick, you start the race at even, and both have the same opportunities to win. Until the matchup gets patched by NRS, by either buffs or nerfs, as they see fit, which is their version of bringing about "fairness." Other than the given tournament setting, not sure how people can view it as "fair". Especially since bad matchups should never have been in the first place. At best these are errors or glitches.

Thoughts?

 

[Nick T.]

Man, a lot of you guys are in for a rude awakening if you think it's unfair LOL. Who gives a fuck?? Sure I'll counterpick, but I'll make sure to at least know enough about my bad matchups so I can at least learn some ins and outs.

But guess what guys.... counter picks don't mean shit if you can read your opponent. Sure the character abilities may be disadvantageous for another character but the player can punish your fireball every time you knock them down, or uppercut you every time you do a high 2 after a low 3. If you can't adapt to the little situations like that on the fly, you're done.

Good shit guys.

 

[salvificblood]

Man, a lot of you guys are in for a rude awakening if you think it's unfair LOL. Who gives a fuck?? Sure I'll counterpick, but I'll make sure to at least know enough about my bad matchups so I can at least learn some ins and outs.

But guess what guys.... counter picks don't mean shit if you can read your opponent. Sure the character abilities may be disadvantageous for another character but the player can punish your fireball every time you knock them down, or uppercut you every time you do a high 2 after a low 3. If you can't adapt to the little situations like that on the fly, you're done.

Good shit guys.

I love the mind games at the select screen. Sometimes you know someone's beat before they even pick a character. I often just leave my cursor over Sub-Zero and let the game auto pick him for me, just so I make them sweat it out for as long as possible, lol.

 

[Lord Beef]

I love the mind games at the select screen. Sometimes you know someone's beat before they even pick a character. I often just leave my cursor over Sub-Zero and let the game auto pick him for me, just so I make them sweat it out for as long as possible, lol.

My fav little trick is to immediately pick sub. But as it says "subzero", ill use the sound of the z to mask the deselect sound. Then counter pick Uber fast after they select. I just like to see who will fall for it.

-b_s- :headbang: