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Towers of Time must be the worst game design i saw in decades.

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
Sure, guy. Fighting another human is not the founding idea of fighting games. Lol. I get that there are people who more so value fighting ai, what I cant understand is why?
Cause most casual players dont really have any interest in getting good at the actual game . They have more interest in the lore and the fatalitys and violence like most of my friends do. I tried to teach them to get good at the game but we all know u dont get really good in a fightinggame in a couple of weeks playing unless ur a supertalent. Myself i love the competetive thing about fighting another human and i have no interest at all in story or playing ai. Each to their own.
 
I finished in the top 5% and still didn't get the Raiden skin last week. I'll never play the mode more than I did a week ago, so I think I'm giving up on the Towers.

It's a topic that's been driven into the ground at this point, but I really do despise the Towers of Time. Absolutely zero fun. 99% of the time I just let the AI run through them. Hate the game mode with every fiber of my being. Every piece of gear/skin should be able to be acquired passively by just playing the game any way you'd like, regardless of how long it might take.
Oh wait until you find out that you have to beat them all by hand in order to unlock all costumes, because some pieces of gear and some summoned tower keys, hide behind brutal difficulty in specific towers.

FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN
 

Ayx

Omnipresent
Theses systems were meticulously designed to 1) work in concert with one another, to push players into paying to access the content that they legally own, had already paid premium price for, and which they rightfully had access to via reasonable in-game completion tasks; and 2) to avoid raising the "loot box" warming flags to anyone au fait and litigious enough to potentially take them to task for the machinations. The irony being, that what they came up with more like RANSOMWARE than "loot boxes"... Which is unequivocally illegal!

Of course, few listened... Because the MK franchise is the fighting game that non-fighting-game players play. ¯\(v_v)
L M A O @ comparing a video game completely non-game changing kosmetic to an illegal locking software that has costed companies millions in damages. You typed up that lord of the ring sized paragraph just to blurt some conspiracy theory that is borderline insulting to anyone's intelligence. Are you really comparing dress up in a fighting game to a loot RPG game that stats completely change the game its made for? Online doesn't even allow Augments, so that would be invalid.

For all that talk you could use common sense for once and notice that if they really wanted to push for premium/pay-to-win like content they could have. The rotating shop is abysmally worthless because there's so many gear pieces and skins the chances of you finding the one you need can take months. I haven't spent a dime on time crystals and have bought multiple skins in the shop already that were AI battle skins. The single player content is very draining, yes, but sooner than later I started realizing that the chances of unlocking all the content for a character will take months anyways, because I have completed almost every character rotating ToT in the game (well, the AI did tbh.) and still have multiple pieces missing. What that means is most probably they are locked behind the 3 day rotating tower that means that there's only 10 skins/rewards a month. Multiply that by lets say 2 skins per character (We just had two unique Kabal towers) that's 50 skins. Which means it can take 5 months more or less before I see the skin/tower I need for my character skin. That's not to mention chars have two or more ??? skins which for now seems to be the race against time which is a weekly event.

tl;dr - The game is made to be a time sink and not to complete in one week.. or month. If we go by NRS' timeline we won't see a new game for another two years . Is everyone really that worked up to want to complete everything month #1 when it's just kosmetics anyways?
 

Rpgz

Fraudguad/Weeb?
Oh wait until you find out that you have to beat them all by hand in order to unlock all costumes, because some pieces of gear and some summoned tower keys, hide behind brutal difficulty in specific towers.

FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN
Brutal is ez with scorp and mods...1300 KBs 26,000 blood spilt in towerz REQUIRES MARIJUANA...ITS NARCOTIC LVLS OF GRIND!
 

NeonGroovyGator

Vampire mommy simp
L M A O @ comparing a video game completely non-game changing kosmetic to an illegal locking software that has costed companies millions in damages. You typed up that lord of the ring sized paragraph just to blurt some conspiracy theory that is borderline insulting to anyone's intelligence. Are you really comparing dress up in a fighting game to a loot RPG game that stats completely change the game its made for? Online doesn't even allow Augments, so that would be invalid.

For all that talk you could use common sense for once and notice that if they really wanted to push for premium/pay-to-win like content they could have. The rotating shop is abysmally worthless because there's so many gear pieces and skins the chances of you finding the one you need can take months. I haven't spent a dime on time crystals and have bought multiple skins in the shop already that were AI battle skins. The single player content is very draining, yes, but sooner than later I started realizing that the chances of unlocking all the content for a character will take months anyways, because I have completed almost every character rotating ToT in the game (well, the AI did tbh.) and still have multiple pieces missing. What that means is most probably they are locked behind the 3 day rotating tower that means that there's only 10 skins/rewards a month. Multiply that by lets say 2 skins per character (We just had two unique Kabal towers) that's 50 skins. Which means it can take 5 months more or less before I see the skin/tower I need for my character skin. That's not to mention chars have two or more ??? skins which for now seems to be the race against time which is a weekly event.

tl;dr - The game is made to be a time sink and not to complete in one week.. or month. If we go by NRS' timeline we won't see a new game for another two years . Is everyone really that worked up to want to complete everything month #1 when it's just kosmetics anyways?
I think most people aren't in a serious relationship with NRS and play other games, so a game that takes that long to fully explore (especially for people who play online) isn't that good.
Just let us unlock shit online. Done. Problem solved. I want to spend the game's lifetime competing with other players, not against the AI.
 

Ayx

Omnipresent
I think most people aren't in a serious relationship with NRS and play other games, so a game that takes that long to fully explore (especially for people who play online) isn't that good.
Just let us unlock shit online. Done. Problem solved. I want to spend the game's lifetime competing with other players, not against the AI.
Oh I 100% agree. I'm lucky that I can work from home multiple nights a week meaning I can put the AI to grind towers. Not everyone has that luxury and the timesink is way too harsh. I think the rewards for online play (at least ranked, since social games could easily be boosted and abuse if the reward is too great) should definitely be higher. Especially for koins to give us krypt rewards.
 

Sirkus

The Blind Swordsman
Quite frankly I don't mind the towers. I do prefer playing against humans of course, but I do really enjoy that whole twist aspect of them, and I like the difficulty because it gives me something to do in case I get bored of playing opponent after opponent after opponent. But You make valid points and I completely understand where you're coming from, however you have to admit although you may not enjoy it, NRS seemed to have put a ton of work into it thinking that people would, and lots of people do.
 

Sirkus

The Blind Swordsman
It’s fucking stupid you don’t get rewarded for playing online when that’s what will really drive the games life span
Yeah that I agree on. There should be an entire different way of handling rewards for online play. There should be like a whole new rewards system or something like that, or at least you should get a ton more koins than what you actually end up getting.
 

kantboy-2

Ripper
Just did 5 A.I. battles; instead of awarding a skin and gear like it should, it gave a skin for characters I've never touched and 5 hearts every single time.

This fucking game...
 

Rpgz

Fraudguad/Weeb?
Ai is stingy, but only takes 10 minutes...keep at it! Char towers suck donkey dong tho.
 
L M A O @ comparing a video game completely non-game changing kosmetic to an illegal locking software that has costed companies millions in damages. You typed up that lord of the ring sized paragraph just to blurt some conspiracy theory that is borderline insulting to anyone's intelligence. Are you really comparing dress up in a fighting game to a loot RPG game that stats completely change the game its made for? Online doesn't even allow Augments, so that would be invalid.

For all that talk you could use common sense for once and notice that if they really wanted to push for premium/pay-to-win like content they could have. The rotating shop is abysmally worthless because there's so many gear pieces and skins the chances of you finding the one you need can take months. I haven't spent a dime on time crystals and have bought multiple skins in the shop already that were AI battle skins. The single player content is very draining, yes, but sooner than later I started realizing that the chances of unlocking all the content for a character will take months anyways, because I have completed almost every character rotating ToT in the game (well, the AI did tbh.) and still have multiple pieces missing. What that means is most probably they are locked behind the 3 day rotating tower that means that there's only 10 skins/rewards a month. Multiply that by lets say 2 skins per character (We just had two unique Kabal towers) that's 50 skins. Which means it can take 5 months more or less before I see the skin/tower I need for my character skin. That's not to mention chars have two or more ??? skins which for now seems to be the race against time which is a weekly event.

tl;dr - The game is made to be a time sink and not to complete in one week.. or month. If we go by NRS' timeline we won't see a new game for another two years . Is everyone really that worked up to want to complete everything month #1 when it's just kosmetics anyways?
since you ignored the fact that ive said its not me who wrote it ill just ignore you. But thanks and edite my post removing the paragraph that talked about the legal stuff wich like ive said i agree is non sense
 
I put over 600 hours into Injustice 2 and never played a single online match.
Not everyone is a competative gamer, and not everyone is big on online gaming. It's not an enigma at all.

I think it's great in general that NetherRealms Studios designs various game modes in its games for all types of players. Single, Multi, Casual, Competative. There's something for everyone in their titles.
Sure, guy. Fighting another human is not the founding idea of fighting games. Lol. I get that there are people who more so value fighting ai, what I cant understand is why?
I think this is so, so key. Working on games, one of the biggest shocks for so many people (and a huge disconnect between the average player and an industry professional) is understanding the extreme differences among the people who play your games -- and this is multiplied by how many platforms you release on as well as other things like budget, license, genre, etc. People's preferences as to what they find fun or interesting are so incredibly varied, and it's a true skill to be able to understand and sell an experience to polar opposite players. For example, I can boot up an infantry-only Deathmatch mode in Battlefield V, play for an hour, and come away completely unable to fathom how anyone could find it fun: why would you want to play Battlefield without objectives and vehicles?? But still, those people exist, and there's more of them than you might think.

NRS, particularly with Injustice 2 and MK11, has done a really great job of taking a traditionally niche genre and opening it up to a lot of players with offline modes (to be fair, the 3D era MK games have all had pretty robust single-player experiences as well, albeit released into a different market). Their mainstream success with recognizable licenses has been great for providing their core experience to classical fighting game players, while providing a product relevant to all types of gamers: plus, some of those players would have been converted into core fighting game fans. However, my somewhat educated guess would be a huge percentage of both of those games' players with 20+ hours played have between 0-10 online matches logged.

Regarding ToT directly, I do feel like the basic experience is good and will remain something I play regularly for a while. Log on, warm up on some towers in a somewhat live-fire environment, then maybe get some online matches in. I enjoy the experience even though I don't really care exactly what I'm getting, as long as I'm getting some stuff for a character I like. I think where NRS dropped the ball was not anticipating the needs of completionists and online players -- there are a lot of players who really want to get ALL of Baraka's stuff, or maybe Baraka and a handful of others. The idea that they have little control over their collection and may have to wait on a rotating tower/store to get those last few items leads to an uncomfortable itching feeling under the skin. Additionally the online players don't get many opportunities to convert their play into gear. The returns in terms of currency rewards are just OK, and obviously a lot of items are locked to offline modes. Something more mode-agnostic like Injustice 2's Motherboxes are better for serving all players (although the randomness is another problem entirely). What MK11 really needed (or still needs, they might implement something like this still, who knows) would be more ways to convert your currencies into gear with more direct control. Maybe a rotating shop for each character, or per-character loot boxes available for Koins/Hearts/Essence.
 

Rpgz

Fraudguad/Weeb?
Aw hell no, I was happy when mk was a fighting game...fgc aint gonna like this....
 
tl;dr - The game is made to be a time sink and not to complete in one week.. or month. If we go by NRS' timeline we won't see a new game for another two years . Is everyone really that worked up to want to complete everything month #1 when it's just kosmetics anyways?
I think that is very much the issue. They really pushed the customisable part of the game, yet much of it you won't be able to access without playing it for a shit tonne of time.

The time issue isn't so bad, if you play enough it will come - except that a vocal minority wants everything NOW instead of playing through and unlocking things over time.

Even I used to play through classic towers first to get the endings for all characters, but in MK11 i'm going straight to online and rarely going to do any towers.

The big problem is that much is locked behind ToT and AI bullshit that some players may never want to waste time with. And that I think is the real issue. Why should someone be forced to play that mode, or be restricted from getting a skin/ender etc. when they mostly want to play online. They needed/need to find a way that you can still get this stuff without forcing you to play X mode.

It seems the shrine might be a way of managing this. I've noticed you get ~3000koins after every match. After 100 games you'll end up with 300k to burn. While it may not be everyones idea of fun, it is a way to get a bunch of stuff quite easily while just playing the game. And what else are you going to do with all those koins?

But no matter what there's definitely a lot of superfluous crap locked behind bullshit walls in a means to extend the games life.

Personally i'd prefer the effort spent on this part of the game to have gone into QA and overall finish of the game. I've still got the shits with kitana's fans being held ALL the damn time... Like really... all the damn time! WTF!!
 
I think that is very much the issue. They really pushed the customisable part of the game, yet much of it you won't be able to access without playing it for a shit tonne of time.
It's definitely a problem. When you see original requirements like "Perform 50 Fatalities against X", that's intended to be something that players will unlock gradually over the weeks/months they're playing the game, not necessarily grinded out in an afternoon of playtime. For a lot of reasons, that's just difficult to message to players -- all they see is a big pile of work between them and the Johnny Cage skin they want, and they want it now.

A lot of this just comes down to simple economics: players have an expectation that they will get a lot of playtime out of a game like this, especially hardcore completionists, but you can only make so many cosmetic items. A character skin for a game of MK11's fidelity is on the order of weeks of work. Okay now you have a skin, you can get a few palette swaps and recolors done. Now we're talking days of work, so a pretty good turnaround, but you can only do a few before players stop caring. There's a realistic cap on just how much content you can get done, so the economy is tuned to to try and keep people engaged for a longer period. But again, unfortunately, the messaging often just backfires, players they just see a bunch of stuff they can't have. Especially thosewho really specifically want to collect gear for a single character (or handful of characters).
 
@deathstroke187 Fair enough.

Sure, guy. Fighting another human is not the founding idea of fighting games. Lol. I get that there are people who more so value fighting ai, what I cant understand is why?
Dude, some of the most hype klassic moments at my arcade back in the 90's was watching someone not only actually get to fight Reptile, but to defeat him. Or the first time we saw someone take down Goro. Or Kintaro. Or Shao Kahn. Those SP moments, in an arcade, were sick! There were some great sets between players in Versus as well, don't get me wrong, but unless it was a really epic set or a rivalry, the biggest crowd draws were actually SP feats.

Overall though, @CorneliusBrutus explained things excellently. I mean, look at the sales figures for the game across all platforms, and compare that to the people playing Online. There's a lot of people playing SP content man.

even in terms of single player, how are ToT not decades behind every other single player experience today?
I'm certainly not saying there perfect, some of the towers are very "gimmicky" which, for me, is a huge turn-off, but they're not as bad, in my opinion, as people are saying.
 

Damaja325

Stylin' & Low Profilin'
yeah i hate the towers of time. can't have any luck unlocking anything i remotely want. everything is random random and more random. the modifiers just make the game completely unenjoyable.
 

Afumba

Noob
L M A O @ comparing a video game completely non-game changing kosmetic to an illegal locking software that has costed companies millions in damages. You typed up that lord of the ring sized paragraph just to blurt some conspiracy theory that is borderline insulting to anyone's intelligence. Are you really comparing dress up in a fighting game to a loot RPG game that stats completely change the game its made for? Online doesn't even allow Augments, so that would be invalid.

For all that talk you could use common sense for once and notice that if they really wanted to push for premium/pay-to-win like content they could have. The rotating shop is abysmally worthless because there's so many gear pieces and skins the chances of you finding the one you need can take months. I haven't spent a dime on time crystals and have bought multiple skins in the shop already that were AI battle skins. The single player content is very draining, yes, but sooner than later I started realizing that the chances of unlocking all the content for a character will take months anyways, because I have completed almost every character rotating ToT in the game (well, the AI did tbh.) and still have multiple pieces missing. What that means is most probably they are locked behind the 3 day rotating tower that means that there's only 10 skins/rewards a month. Multiply that by lets say 2 skins per character (We just had two unique Kabal towers) that's 50 skins. Which means it can take 5 months more or less before I see the skin/tower I need for my character skin. That's not to mention chars have two or more ??? skins which for now seems to be the race against time which is a weekly event.

tl;dr - The game is made to be a time sink and not to complete in one week.. or month. If we go by NRS' timeline we won't see a new game for another two years . Is everyone really that worked up to want to complete everything month #1 when it's just kosmetics anyways?
Its really funny how people that try to defend this always beat on the "everybody wants to unlock things fast" nail. Its not abot getting things fast its about how you earn it. They could quadruple the time investment and still make the grind more appealing. An 8 year old could come up with a better way to grind than what we got here and still have it be a huge time sink.
 

Afumba

Noob
Oh... and to the people who are saying that they are so many casual players interested in SP and its for their longevity etcetc are delusional. Sure they are interested in SP but not many casual players would grind SP towers for like a year++ to get some additional skin colors in an fg. If you want to keep those players gaming than create good and creative SP/story/character content as you surely wont hold most of them with these ToTs.

Also people are playing a lot or SP right now cuz you f-ing have to if you want to unlock shit lol. If they had given us the chance to grind everything in SP as well as in MP those ToT play times would drop drastically.
 

Nickolaidas

Agent of Chaosrealm
As a single-player only guy myself, it's almost as if ToT was solely made for me, so I cannot complain.

That said, people who play online are at a severe disadvantage. A good solution would be to unlock one gear every 5 online matches, one intro/outro every 20 matches, one skin every 10 matches. Boom, problem solved for competitive, online-only players.
 

astronout

see you at the top.
Towers of time is ass cheeks. The unlock system for gear is ass cheeks. NRS, I would have begrudgingly spent $20 to unlock everything. But I guess they want me to pay for the ultimate edition that'll come out next year, which isn't happening.
 
Towers kinda suck.
My least favourite is the multiplayer towers. I don't have a plus until next payday (thanks for the charge sony) and I just can't do them. I'm not THAT good to do them solo.
So I think okay, I'll just use a skip token the game keeps shoving down my throat. Oh wait, they work only in towers I can beat and thus are worthless!
I got the heads and did a lot of towers. I beat Baraka's character towers and got all the heart chests. I sweeped the Krypt twice. I still don't have all of his brutalities, 3/4th of his skins and about a half of his gear. It's abysmal.
The worst part is: the skins aren't even that good! It's 60 skins with barely any changes. Baraka at least has some variation, I can't imagine what it must be like for Kotal players.