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Tournaments Should be 3/5?

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
3/5 is more than possible, it's being done. More than 200 sets of 3/5 are being ran by Rapzilla and I in less than 4 hours.

No excuses.

But what I don't see his how 2/3 can allow a gimmicky player to win, but one more match will make sure the better player wins? I'm not buying that. That's why AJ and I do round robin tournaments.
I think the better player has more of a chance of winning in a 3/5 set. Saying the better player WILL win is going a little far. Regardless injustice is a fast game and should be 3/5.
 

lobo

woof.
SC5 is a very fast, 50%+ life easy damage combo game. that is what prompted the shift to 3/5 for tournaments. in the end, tournaments take longer, stream people either get pissed or we (the community) get shafted on watching finals. the top players are still the top players and the results haven't reflected the round shift at all, really. the best players will win no matter what. why drag out something that has worked for so long?

what game has a round system like injustice?

well, arguably, MvC3. sure it isn't identical, but it is comparably fast paced imo, and it is the most successful FG both for tournament revenue and stream revenue of this generation...by a big long shot.

i don't wish to derail, but injustice's major tournament issue is not the rounds or matches played, it is that it is a seemingly different game every month. i think i speak for many of us when i say...i love injustice. i love injustice 2. injustice 3 was ok. i didn't play injustice 4 and 5, or 6. i'm not a big fan of injustice 7, though.
 

9.95

Noob
This is why I said that this argument is part of the reason I got out of this.

My final thought on this is:

Locals with multiple games are more representative of majors as a whole.


Locals that exist in a bubble, that is to say, the only game being run is Injustice, are a microcosm of what a full major is like. There are factors far and away out of any bracket runner's control that hold up a major. When a local with only Injustice is held, you have players that aren't falling into those factors...and if they are, its minimal at best. These are not really representative of what a major can be run like.

I'm not saying that 3/5 CAN'T be done. I'm saying that it SHOULDN'T be done until more locals like WNF, The Break, and Next Level start doing it when they have multiple games to be run. This will give us a better idea of what kind of time constraints we'll have if making the change. Never did I say it can't be done...just that a little small time testing should be done before trying it out on the big time.

#BackToMyCave
 

pherleece

Woolay
9.95 exactly. I love what Swiftzilla does at their events and it's always on time but you (not you personally) cant claim that if 3/5 works for them that I will work at a major with 100-200 entrants which 20% could possibly be playing in 2-3 other games.
 

shaowebb

Get your guns on. Sheriff is back.
Shouldn't this be decided by the TOs depending on bracket sizes, stream time, time available with the equipment/space?
This honestly. The size of the tourney and the amount of time you have to show the tourney and actually finish it are major factors that determine this sort of thing. I watched a Euro KoF XIII tournament on stream get into some serious heat on stream because they were taking too long at the venue to finish up.

KOF XIII, like Injustice, is also a health marathon game only a bit worse given it technically has 3 lifebars per team to go through and every match in final 8 played out as OCV comebacks to near OCV comebacks that essentially played out 5 life bars per match round. That tourney ran super long and got in a lot of heat at the venue...not sure they got to run KoF XIII there again this year or not.

Its relative to how much you afford to play. If you got all the time in the world and your tourney is not super loaded with players then 3-5 is no big deal and awesome, but if you are on a time table and you already got a full deck of matches to go through 3-5 just might not be feasible.
 

NoobHunter420

Scrub God Lord
3/5 would be the best for everyone, this gives the superior player enough time to adapt and take the win.
This is not very feasible, especially for majors.
At least they should try to make top 16 3/5 .
 

Disaster FX

Boom Bap Dragon
Injustice throughout Australia has been run on 3/5 for a few months and it's made the game as a tournament experience much more enjoyable, I don't see why anyone is opposed to this anymore.
 

Shock

Administrator
Premium Supporter
It is as simple as adding time to the tournament. More setups will result in the possibility of running 3/5 for any game, however you have to remember that most tournaments want to run top 8 for any big game at least. It might not be possible to run all top 8 of Injustice on a main stream as 3/5 and stay within time constraints. You have no idea how much time it's going to add. If you run you're whole event as top 8 you can't drop the first 5 of the top 8 down to 2/3. If a game isn't being streamed and functions independently of the event, 3/5 is very possible.

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it's a headache to add time to what are already time consuming tournaments. There have been tournaments where I have said afterward "We probably could have squeezed out 3/5s" but it's just not foreseeable. Marvel gets 3/5 because of how fast the matches end and the consistency of blowouts.

Scoot Magee the reason why 3/5 works for Rapzilla is because both times they did them with me, we had 7 or 8 setups running at all times without ever the chance to bottle neck. In addition, Injustice was run either independently, or the only game being run. At 28 players and 7 stations that's 1 setup for every 4 players. A fantastic ratio.

I invite anyone who wants to help out at a future tournament with 100+ players to run brackets and understand. Yes, I know some of you already run brackets at your own events but I don't know if all of you have done 10 hour runs with 128 - 256 players on 7 or 9 setups. Even if you aren't official staff I will pay your venue fee and you can learn with any one of our experienced bracketers, to at least get the idea of what it's like, and get the chance to tell players they are DQ'd, or hunting them down for results, keeping the flow going with the stations all being used as much as possible. This means you won't get to play much throughout the night, except during the down time between brackets (if there is any). For example, at TFC, every pool went 5 to 10 minutes under or over the alloted time frame. With a 128 player tournament and only X amount of hours to get it done, there was no way we could have done 3/5 for that event, and we had 9 setups.

Stream scheduling aside, IMO 3/5 is only possible if there is 1 station for every 10 players in a tournament. While it's possible to achieve that, is there also room at the venue for that many setups without encroaching on other games? You can't tell Marvel or AE, when they get double the turnout we do, that they need to kill 4 stations just so Injustice gets 3/5. I have requested 3/5 at majors for top 16 or top 8 several times.

In my personal opinion, Injustice does NOT qualify as a 3/5 necessity game, as there are rounds, there's a chance of health increase every match, there are no factorable infinites, and there is no sense of a random winner in any evenly skilled match, ever. (random winner is different than any body's game). A game like Marvel does have a health recharge factor, but it has no rounds. Oftentimes, there mere fact that you have multiple characters, which simulate rounds, is meaningless and entire teams are beaten in under a minute. Kill combos/infinite style combos galore add to a huge sense of "what just happened?" on a regular basis. That kind of game deserves 3/5, ironically when it doesn't even deserve to be played at all. #whensmarvelover

I can go into a whole lot more, but really, all it needs to come down to is time frames.

Edit:
In addition to Vampire as being a game with energy deficit round changes also Killer Instinct, I haven't seen if anyone mentioned it.
 
It is as simple as adding time to the tournament. More setups will result in the possibility of running 3/5 for any game, however you have to remember that most tournaments want to run top 8 for any big game at least. It might not be possible to run all top 8 of Injustice on a main stream as 3/5 and stay within time constraints. You have no idea how much time it's going to add. If you run you're whole event as top 8 you can't drop the first 5 of the top 8 down to 2/3. If a game isn't being streamed and functions independently of the event, 3/5 is very possible.

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it's a headache to add time to what are already time consuming tournaments. There have been tournaments where I have said afterward "We probably could have squeezed out 3/5s" but it's just not foreseeable. Marvel gets 3/5 because of how fast the matches end and the consistency of blowouts.

Scoot Magee the reason why 3/5 works for Rapzilla is because both times they did them with me, we had 7 or 8 setups running at all times without ever the chance to bottle neck. In addition, Injustice was run either independently, or the only game being run. At 28 players and 7 stations that's 1 setup for every 4 players. A fantastic ratio.

I invite anyone who wants to help out at a future tournament with 100+ players to run brackets and understand. Yes, I know some of you already run brackets at your own events but I don't know if all of you have done 10 hour runs with 128 - 256 players on 7 or 9 setups. Even if you aren't official staff I will pay your venue fee and you can learn with any one of our experienced bracketers, to at least get the idea of what it's like, and get the chance to tell players they are DQ'd, or hunting them down for results, keeping the flow going with the stations all being used as much as possible. This means you won't get to play much throughout the night, except during the down time between brackets (if there is any). For example, at TFC, every pool went 5 to 10 minutes under or over the alloted time frame. With a 128 player tournament and only X amount of hours to get it done, there was no way we could have done 3/5 for that event, and we had 9 setups.

Stream scheduling aside, IMO 3/5 is only possible if there is 1 station for every 10 players in a tournament. While it's possible to achieve that, is there also room at the venue for that many setups without encroaching on other games? You can't tell Marvel or AE, when they get double the turnout we do, that they need to kill 4 stations just so Injustice gets 3/5. I have requested 3/5 at majors for top 16 or top 8 several times.

In my personal opinion, Injustice does NOT qualify as a 3/5 necessity game, as there are rounds, there's a chance of health increase every match, there are no factorable infinites, and there is no sense of a random winner in any evenly skilled match, ever. (random winner is different than any body's game). A game like Marvel does have a health recharge factor, but it has no rounds. Oftentimes, there mere fact that you have multiple characters, which simulate rounds, is meaningless and entire teams are beaten in under a minute. Kill combos/infinite style combos galore add to a huge sense of "what just happened?" on a regular basis. That kind of game deserves 3/5, ironically when it doesn't even deserve to be played at all. #whensmarvelover

I can go into a whole lot more, but really, all it needs to come down to is time frames.

Edit:
In addition to Vampire as being a game with energy deficit round changes also Killer Instinct, I haven't seen if anyone mentioned it.
so an event like TFC that had 12 setups and 30 min-hr rest between pool start times could have been feasible.. u think?
 

Groove Heaven

Jobber-baron
I like 3/5 too, I don't think it takes that long, this game moves very quickly. It also gives players more of a chance to adapt to their opponent and everyone just gets to have more fun.
 

Nutrient

Lex Flex
3/5

Interactables....asylum

Nuff said

P.S If I gotta watch that snore fest that is TTT2 3/5 taking 15+mins a set and IJ only 2/3 only taking 5mins Imma choke a TO
 

Shock

Administrator
Premium Supporter
so an event like TFC that had 12 setups and 30 min-hr rest between pool start times could have been feasible.. u think?
If TFC had 12 setups, and 30 minutes between pools, it would have been possible, but we had 9 setups and virtually neutral time between pools since it was like +10 for one, -10 for another, etc.
 

summoning

Noncompliance to ASTM F 899-12 Standard
let me chime in alittle because I do help with the equipment and setup , I think 3/5 is nice for you players but for us who run these things especially lets say NEC coming with maybe 100+ entries..... I just do not think its possible ...

I have been helping run these for the 6 years or so in almost all of the east coast majors.

2/3 has never run perfectly smooth except for TFC

i can not imagine a 3/5 running flawless and thats what we need to do run a flawless tournament
 
let me chime in alittle because I do help with the equipment and setup , I think 3/5 is nice for you players but for us who run these things especially lets say NEC coming with maybe 100+ entries..... I just do not think its possible ...

I have been helping run these for the 6 years or so in almost all of the east coast majors.

2/3 has never run perfectly smooth except for TFC

i can not imagine a 3/5 running flawless and thats what we need to do run a flawless tournament
but my rebuttal is this... tekken takes forrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevvvvvvvvvvverrrrrrrrrrr but they do it bc its what the scene wants.

just compare how long it takes to do a 50 man tekken bracket vs a 100 inj bracket..
 

RapZiLLa54

Monster Island Tournaments
9.95 exactly. I love what Swiftzilla does at their events and it's always on time but you (not you personally) cant claim that if 3/5 works for them that I will work at a major with 100-200 entrants which 20% could possibly be playing in 2-3 other games.
I don't get this TBH. Most majors are run over an entire weekend not a single night, why do all the games overlap each other instead of broken apart.
Another reason why I love running round robin, you are not at the mercy of any which pool, so if someone is playing another game, you can work around then very easily.
 

Nutrient

Lex Flex
let me chime in alittle because I do help with the equipment and setup , I think 3/5 is nice for you players but for us who run these things especially lets say NEC coming with maybe 100+ entries..... I just do not think its possible ...

I have been helping run these for the 6 years or so in almost all of the east coast majors.

2/3 has never run perfectly smooth except for TFC

I can not imagine a 3/5 running flawless and thats what we need to do run a flawless tournament
I understand theres complexities in tournaments schedules.

Marvel is a game that's run 3/5 for many reasons, I can't see why some games get a pass on this 3/5 and some don't

I game that would get less entrants could be done 3/5 if it were the case no?

I just wanna see the better player win, isn't that why we do some 3/5 in the first place?

At the very least a GF 3/5 shouldn't be unreasonable.