To super move or not to super move, that is the question?

[Sol Sinister]

I was talking to a game designer today about this awesome game and stumbled upon this topic. He said that injustice seems a bit sluggish compared to sf4 and i disagreed. But then i realized that it was a trick of perception and a clever management of game meter building actions by capcom. For example, capcom separates the super move meter from the meter burn moves. This separation causes more occurrences of super move cinematics thus the illusion of faster or engaging game play. I believe if injustice was to deal with this issue in a clever fashion, it would become the premiere fighting game. This would also make combos like those showcased in Bane "Gotham's Reckoning" combo video by DoctrineDark of Chile viable in tournaments. That would be wow.....

Thoughts anyone??

 

[Obanye]

The game is sluggish and blocky/non-fluid compared to natural fighters like it always has been since mk1 with shitty mo-cap animations and non-colliding projectiles. That said, thanks to DC awesome story and character designs and NRS being able to learn from other companies mistakes we have a GREAT fighter on our hands with IJ.

 

[Komatose]

Slow compared to AE? Am I reading this correctly? Anyway, the game is fine as is. They are not trying to make a game with colliding projectiles. They are not trying to make games like Street Fighter. They are making games the way they want them to be made and in their image and it is doing fine because they have us, the community supporting them no matter what.

 

[sgZick]

Slow compared to AE? Am I reading this correctly? Anyway, the game is fine as is. They are not trying to make a game with colliding projectiles. They are not trying to make games like Street Fighter. They are making games the way they want them to be made and in their image and it is doing fine because they have us, the community supporting them no matter what.

I wouldn't say "no matter what" if they would have made a game they like but they majority of buyers can't agree on, then there would only be a small portin of fanboys defending. Sure the game doesn't try to mimic other fighting games and their own style is a success in itself. But doing your own thing can go either way, look at Playstation Allstarts for example. They tried hard to be different from the obvious inspiration (Super Smash Bros), but it was not necessary what the fans wanted and the support is very limited compared to the hype that came before it...

 

[Komatose]

I wouldn't say "no matter what" if they would have made a game they like but they majority of buyers can't agree on, then there would only be a small portin of fanboys defending. Sure the game doesn't try to mimic other fighting games and their own style is a success in itself. But doing your own thing can go either way, look at Playstation Allstarts for example. They tried hard to be different from the obvious inspiration (Super Smash Bros), but it was not necessary what the fans wanted and the support is very limited compared to the hype that came before it...

All that, is really irrelevant. Damn, that is my favorite word. Look, we've already stood by NRS through thick and thin and even though they have done things most of us didn't support, we stuck it out. Period. Either you are just babbling or you are making a very dull point.

 

[Alien Substance]

But doing your own thing can go either way, look at Playstation Allstars for example. They tried hard to be different from the obvious inspiration (Super Smash Bros), but it was not necessary what the fans wanted and the support is very limited compared to the hype that came before it...

Just popping in:
From what I've seen, a factor in the PS All-Stars case is that there was no "solid" community to support it, unlike I:GAU.

 

[CY MasterHavik]

killphil: there is a community to support it's at Impluse.

 

[sgZick]

All that, is really irrelevant. Damn, that is my favorite word. Look, we've already stood by NRS through thick and thin and even though they have done things most of us didn't support, we stuck it out. Period. Either you are just babbling or you are making a very dull point.

Sorry I'm new to this community and I did not want to speak on it's behalf. All I wanted to say is, I don't think it reasonable for a fan base to support the creative output of an developer independent from the quality of the finished product. I love injustice the way it is and the way it is different, but lets say NRS would have decided to get rid of healthbars completely or have a fighter completely without block, it might still be a good game, or it might turn out to be crap and there is no reason to stand behind it, just because it is the game NRS wanted to make and delivered. If it isn't fun it isn't fun, period. (Again Injustice is a lot of fun, but there is never a guarantee just it is developed by certain people).

 

[Komatose]

Okay.

 

[Sol Sinister]

Sorry if i was not clear, forgive me. This game is AWESOME. I was simply curious about the meter issues with the game. For example, the meter currently is being used for armor based attacks for starting combos and careful wager engagements. This reality causes the uses of SUPER MOVES to DECREASE. I just want to see an INCREASE in SUPER MOVE USAGE and thought that a separation of meter building actions within the game engine would do the trick. DESIGNERS spent a lot of TIME on super moves so SHOWCASE them. For example, certain game actions would build the current meter system and then a SEPARATE possible HERO'S RESOLVE METER for only SUPER MOVE USAGE. Please don't interpret my post as a fanboy or use it for flame wars, I'm a NRS CONVERT because of this game. NRS is moving in the right direction with this game. The DC UNIVERSE IS VAST and I sincerely just want this game and development to continue INTO the FUTURE. Thanks for your time. Please more comments.

 

[Komatose]

I respect your opinion but again, the game is fine as is. Has already been played in tournaments and the only complaint that I remember or was of any importance was the controller settings issue which could have been avoided but no one knew what it was prior to when it happened. Other than that, the game's meter, is fine. It works. It works well. If it isn't broken, do not fix it. Especially if it works well.

 

[Killphil]

killphil: there is a community to support it's at Impluse.

Wat? I think you got me confused with someone else budday.

 

[187x]

you ever played MK9??

 

[Killphil]

Sorry if i was not clear, forgive me. This game is AWESOME. I was simply curious about the meter issues with the game. For example, the meter currently is being used for armor based attacks for starting combos and careful wager engagements. This reality causes the uses of SUPER MOVES to DECREASE. I just want to see an INCREASE in SUPER MOVE USAGE and thought that a separation of meter building actions within the game engine would do the trick. DESIGNERS spent a lot of TIME on super moves so SHOWCASE them. For example, certain game actions would build the current meter system and then a possible HERO'S RESOLVE METER would build to allow MORE SUPER MOVE USAGE. Please don't interpret my post as a fanboy or use it for flame wars, I'm a NRS CONVERT because of this game. NRS is moving in the right direction with this game. The DC UNIVERSE IS VAST and I sincerely just want this game and development to continue INTO the FUTURE. Thanks for your time. Please more comments.

There are better uses for meter than a super move. I'm not saying you won't see supers in high level play, but you can get the same damage from one well placed armored bounce or even a 1 or 2 bar combo as you would from trying to hit them with a super that costs you your entire meter.

 

[187x]

There are better uses for meter than a super move. I'm not saying you won't see supers in high level play, but you can get the same damage from one well placed armored bounce or even a 1 or 2 bar combo as you would from trying to hit them with a super that costs you your entire meter.

i was going to write the same thing but didn't bother... rather ask if he played MK
meter management are both equally important mk and injustice

 

[Sol Sinister]

"There are better uses for meter than a super move." That statement is at the heart of every player and it shouldn't; thats why i proposed a SEPARATION of meter building actions. One for METER BURN USAGE and one for SUPER MOVE USAGE. Thats all. Again, sorry if I was not clear. Again thoughts on this reality.

 

[Komatose]

"There are better uses for meter than a super move." That statement is at the heart of every player and it shouldn't; thats why i proposed a SEPARATION of meter building actions. One for METER BURN USAGE and one for SUPER MOVE USAGE. Thats all. Again, sorry if I was not clear. Again thoughts on this reality.

What you are saying kind of doesn't make any sense. Of course that statement is going to be at the heart of every player. Why? Because it is true. Now a separation of meter, with that you probably shouldn't feel the same way of course being that there are two different types of meter to manage. Neither of them having any effects on the other in terms of usage. But that isn't the case and won't be the case.

 

[Killphil]

So you just want some type of AE revenge/ultra meter then? The way the game works, you get one meter. My statement stands still.

 

[Eddyward]

There are better uses for meter than a super move. I'm not saying you won't see supers in high level play, but you can get the same damage from one well placed armored bounce or even a 1 or 2 bar combo as you would from trying to hit them with a super that costs you your entire meter.

That's exactly what the OP is getting at. He's not just plain wanting us to use super moves more often. What he does want is the ability to use super moves more often, or to be more effective, by changing the game mechanics because of the reasons you listed. There are better uses for meter than a super move, yes, and he believes that as well. He wants that to not be the case.

EDIT: I may have posted this late lol. Just making sure that the OP is understood; I don't really have an opinion on this yet.

 

[Komatose]

That's exactly what the OP is getting at. He's not just plain wanting us to use super moves more, or to see them used more in tournaments for the sole purpose of spectacle. What he does want is the ability to use super moves more often, or to be more effective, by changing the game mechanics because of the reasons you listed. There are better uses for meter than a super move, yes, and he believes that as well. He wants that to not be the case.

EDIT: I may have posted this late lol

Well whatever the case may be with his points, it won't happen. And that's a good thing in my eyes. Deal with it.

 

[187x]

"There are better uses for meter than a super move." That statement is at the heart of every player and it shouldn't; thats why i proposed a SEPARATION of meter building actions. One for METER BURN USAGE and one for SUPER MOVE USAGE. Thats all. Again, sorry if I was not clear. Again thoughts on this reality.

1. Will be a horrible idea 2.Will be super cheap 3.This isn't a capcom game

 

[Eddyward]

Well whatever the case may be with his points, it won't happen. And that's a good thing in my eyes. Deal with it.

I edited my post a little late. I just wanted to make sure the OP was understood, because it seemed like people were misinterpreting it. I don't really have an opinion on this yet myself.

 

[Killphil]

There's more to it than simply adding in some sort of revenge meter/hero's resolve meter. The entire game would change, and we're not even scratching the surface with discovering what this game has for every character. I'm just posting on the way the game is and probably the way its going to stay. I don't see NRS putting in another meter for any reason. They're going to have their hands full fixing bugs and tweaking the balance to worry about programming in another meter.

Edit: not to mention : how will this meter build? By taking damage? Ok. Now I have no meter to clash this combo. Fuck I'm dead. This is a slippery slope.

 

[Komatose]

There's more to it than simply adding in some sort of revenge meter/hero's resolve meter. The entire game would change, and we're not even scratching the surface with discovering what this game has for every character. I'm just posting on the way the game is and probably the way its going to stay. I don't see NRS putting in another meter for any reason. They're going to have their hands full fixing bugs and tweaking the balance to worry about programming in another meter.

Not to mention DLC.

 

[Eddyward]

There's more to it than simply adding in some sort of revenge meter/hero's resolve meter. The entire game would change, and we're not even scratching the surface with discovering what this game has for every character. I'm just posting on the way the game is and probably the way its going to stay. I don't see NRS putting in another meter for any reason. They're going to have their hands full fixing bugs and tweaking the balance to worry about programming in another meter.

I agree that adding another meter is not the best way to go about this. It would change the game so dramatically, and not really in a good way. I like the direction of the game as it is.

I guess my opinion is this: maybe separating the super move from the current meter isn't the best idea, but perhaps just having super moves scale less than they do right now is better. Or to just plain give them more damage to give us more of a reason to use them, rather than more occurrences of them. I like how they are not usually seen more than once, and are a big spectacle kind of thing. Seeing someone getting eaten by a shark five times in a fight will make it really old, really fast. And it will lose its visual power that way. So I think the best way is to just make super moves more effective, rather than more accessible. :]