Guide The SZ punish thread

[salvificblood]

It's not to keep it simple it's because you can't let her land so that's his only option (if that's what you meant) lol

You can punish it with b12214, slide for more damage but the 212 is easier to do because it doesn't matter if you don't catch her at the height of her "ball up animation". That's what I meant by 212 being the simpler option. I like the safety of it under pressure.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Her roll different than most punishes....you have to punish it before she lands.

hmm, I figured it was like a scorpion or smoke teleport since she is in the ball animation...

ok, so what's wrong with 22 freeze? I believe the damage is about the same.

 

[salvificblood]

hmm, I figured it was like a scorpion or smoke teleport since she is in the ball animation...

ok, so what's wrong with 22 freeze? I believe the damage is about the same.

Damage is less and timing is actually slightly stricter since the iceball will whiff after 22 if you do it slightly too late. neither are hard, but you may as well get more damage for an easier punish and have an optimal knockdown if you end the combo (b1)2 21 slide.

 

[Seapeople]

Against Mileena's roll I just use 1, 212~freeze because the second hit of b12 can whiff if you aren't reacting quickly. It's like 2% less damage, but that's just personal preference.

Some less common things that I try to punish:

Nightwolf, Cage and Jade charge - crouch and 22~freeze
Cyrax d1 or d1~ragdoll - block d1 and 22~freeze
Sub b121 - block b12 and jump back before the last hit
Reptile's strings into invisibility - d4
Jax ground pound, Cyrax/CSZ bombs - slide

 

[Velvet Sack]

Mileena's EX Telekick: d4 xx EX freeze, half dash xx (b1)2, 212, slide. 27%

 

[kdog9114]

Imo one option for a punish for the teleport is a
freeze, dash back, whiff b1, 2...214...bf4(6 hits)...............also works on enemies frozen in the air.......most of the time

 

[LUCKY0346]

what about KL's teleport?
i know how to punish the instant 3 after the teleport..
but the drop down 3?

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Mileena's EX Telekick: d4 xx EX freeze, half dash xx (b1)2, 212, slide. 27%

or... just 212~freeze (b1),2 22~slide for around the same without using meter.

 

[salvificblood]

Playing Foxy's Kung lao yesterday, I ducked his teleport delayed 3 and used 22, freeze to punish but the iceball whiffed. He looked high enough for me to catch him with 22, ice blast but he obviously wasn't. Quite annoying since a slightly delayed 3 looks the same as an instant 3 in the heat of a match. 22, freeze catches the instant 3 if you duck it, and I've made a habit of doing this but I have to do 212, freeze for the delayed 3. Will 212, freeze catch the instant 3 afterwards, too? I take it it should? If so, that saves me the trouble of having to distinguish between the two. I'll just crouch until he does the 3, and then hit him with 212 as he's coming back down.

 

[Ms_2LeftHandz]

Hi there,

My combos if the opponent (e.g. Scorpion) balls up after a teleport are:

1. b1, 2, freeze, dash back, b1, 2, 2, 1 ,2, slide / EX Slide - 27% / 29%
2. b1, 2, freeze, dash back, b1, 2, 2, 1, 2, X-RAY - 39%
3. b1, 2, freeze, dash back, b1, 2, 1, 4, slide / EX Slide - 29% / 31% (corner combo)
4. b1, 2, freeze, dash back, b1, 2, 1,4, X-RAY - 43% (corner combo)

You can also do 1, b1, 2, freeze instead of b1, 2, freeze at the beginning of the combo, but it's pointless as it doesn't do more damage.

 

[Bidu]

I changed my regular BnB against Mileena for more consistent damage. Against her balling when she rolls up now I'm doing b12, 214~Slide for 29%.

You can also do NJP, 1, b12, 212~Slide for 31% , but you gotta do on point, otherwise she's gonna be able to block. So in my opinion it doesn't even worth trying, unless you're really expecting her ball.

I believe the best option against characters that rolls/balls up (Ermac, Scorpion, Smoke teleports, Raiden's superman, etc) would be the one my pal Sub_Crash4 said:

F4~Ice Blast followed by NJP, 1, b12, 212~Slide for damage. It's also good to remember that it also leave room to play mind games with B2 charge/cancel and/or b121 mix ups.

Thanks, Murphy!

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

I changed my regular BnB against these characters that rolls/balls up for more consistent damage (Scorpion, Ermac, Smoke teleports, Raiden's superman, Mileena's ball, etc). Now I'm doing b12, 214~Slide for 29%.

only mileena needs that punish. the rest you can go f4~freeze.

 

[Ms_2LeftHandz]

I changed my regular BnB against these characters that rolls/balls up for more consistent damage (Scorpion, Ermac, Smoke teleports, Raiden's superman, Mileena's ball, etc). Now I'm doing b12, 214~Slide for 29%.

Thanks for showing me this

 

[Bidu]

only mileena needs that punish. the rest you can go f4~freeze.

Good point. I'll change my post.

 

[ChaosTheory]

or... just 212~freeze (b1),2 22~slide for around the same without using meter.

I never messed with this. Do you just ignore IAS and stand? I'd answer myself if I could in practice mode...

Is it just me or is the back end of this inconsistent? I get the 2,1,2, Freeze fine every time and I can't see any difference in my execution... but it seems like sometimes she's frozen too low for (b1),2 to land. You can recognize it and just follow up with a Slide and your damage goes from 25% to 19%, which is still ok. Maybe it's just a very small margin of error. If I could get the full 25% every time I'd opt for this as the best punish. If there's a chance I'll get 19%, I might go for the guaranteed 27% off of d4, EH Freeze.

I love practicing this shit, by the way. The one thing we want to practice punishing is Tele-Kick. What do you get? 7 Leaping Neckbites and 13 Rolls in a row. Then the EH TK comes, you mess up the timing, and wait tw0-and-a-half minutes for another attempt. Love it.

F4~Ice Blast followed by NJP, 1, b12, 212~Slide for damage. It's also good to remember that it also leave room to play mind games with B2 charge/cancel and/or b121 mix ups.

I know I've harped on b1,2,1, but I'm gonna keep harping because it should be everyone's choice. There's no need to distinguish these combos as one being for "damage" and the other being for "mix-ups." One gives you damage and the other gives you the same damage with a potential ceiling way higher. I don't understand why a Sub-Zero player would opt for a different combo.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

F4~Ice Blast followed by NJP, 1, b12, 212~Slide for damage. It's also good to remember that it also leave room to play mind games with B2 charge/cancel and/or b121 mix ups.

Thanks, Murphy!

I just do F4 Ice Blast JIP B121.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

I never messed with this. Do you just ignore IAS and stand? I'd answer myself if I could in practice mode...

Is it just me or is the back end of this inconsistent? I get the 2,1,2, Freeze fine every time and I can't see any difference in my execution... but it seems like sometimes she's frozen too low for (b1),2 to land. You can recognize it and just follow up with a Slide and your damage goes from 25% to 19%, which is still ok. Maybe it's just a very small margin of error. If I could get the full 25% every time I'd opt for this as the best punish. If there's a chance I'll get 19%, I might go for the guaranteed 27% off of d4, EH Freeze.

I love practicing this shit, by the way. The one thing we want to practice punishing is Tele-Kick. What do you get? 7 Leaping Neckbites and 13 Rolls in a row. Then the EH TK comes, you mess up the timing, and wait tw0-and-a-half minutes for another attempt. Love it.



I know I've harped on b1,2,1, but I'm gonna keep harping because it should be everyone's choice. There's no need to distinguish these combos as one being for "damage" and the other being for "mix-ups." One gives you damage and the other gives you the same damage with a potential ceiling way higher. I don't understand why a Sub-Zero player would opt for a different combo.

Yeah you ignore the sai... it will whiff. When they DO throw a sai... the freeze will always be high enough, and the timing is not as strict. When they don't... well it gets tougher. Most Mileenas are throwing that sai though... and when they stop... I just use the d4~ice beam and get my damage that way. Amazingly you don't really have to break Mileena's combo's... they don't do a huge amount of damage.

I also agree with the b1,2,1 bnb. especially as a punish. It is a free clone setup for the same damage. or you get a throw for more damage.

 

[MK Kobra]

what about KL's teleport?
i know how to punish the instant 3 after the teleport..
but the drop down 3?

22 freeze right when comes out of his teleport.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

22 freeze right when comes out of his teleport.

Like he said. Basically you have to make a read. If you think instant 3... duck it and 2,1,2
if you think drop down... 2,2 ASAP!!!

 

[NKZero]

Let's say you are slow to react to Kung Lao's teleport-2 (overhead). How can you avoid it without blocking. I tried lowering hitbox with D3 or D4 and it doesn't work. I don't think I can 212 or 22 if he is on his way down so...

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Let's say you are slow to react to Kung Lao's teleport-2 (overhead). How can you avoid it without blocking. I tried lowering hitbox with D3 or D4 and it doesn't work. I don't think I can 212 or 22 if he is on his way down so...

you don't react to the OH. you simply react to the instant 3 or drop down 3. If you don't see instant 3... than 2,2 will blow up the rest of his move set.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

I've been using these a lot more with the online KL players who try to counter pick me since I'm quick to choose sub. Not so free anymore...still a bad matchup but I'm going down swingin' my ice sword

this mileena stuff is good to know since I got bodied by Jer last week during casuals...not pretty....of course it was also my first exposure to no lag monitor so I was dropping dumb shit too, but that's another story

 

[Durango]

d4, d4, d4, d4, d,4, d4, d4...