The sad state of UMK3, and the re-emergence of MK2

[Eternal]

AC184 why do YOU do GJs if you hate them so much?

 

[AC1984]

Stop even mentioning REO....We're not even talking about the past weekend....we're talking about completely different thing....I lost because REO beat me...I didn't lose to Noob Saibot being what he is....Since you decided to criticize my game play, I have a couple of things to say about this particular video with Marv as well...both of you....especially Marv do shit load of mistakes....If Marv did jabs only....you wouldn't have gotten even a god damn combo on him unless you manage to get a lucky pop up.....

Not to mention the bizarre opportunities you had and did not abuse....

In the end I'm gonna tell you one thing....REO is the best at everything he touches....come play him and then talk.....

P.S. right now when I read your edit....stop putting words in my mouth...I never said anything bad about REO...

Peace...

 

[AC1984]

AC184 why do YOU do GJs if you hate them so much?

In case you haven't noticed, thats what wins in this game...

 

[MIKECALDWELL]

It definitely does add depth.


I mean, it might sound arrogant, but I find those matches above entertaining, and the comments are all positive. And to reiterate, this is even before I really knew how to stop Marv's GJabbing roboticness.

Two things:
1. Yes, you've come off as arrogant throughout this whole thread.
2. You're downplaying your skill level with the kara jabs in this video.

 

[Juggs]

Stop even mentioning REO....We're not even talking about the past weekend....we're talking about completely different thing....I lost because REO beat me...I didn't lose to Noob Saibot being what he is....Since you decided to criticize my game play, I have a couple of things to say about this particular video with Marv as well...both of you....especially Marv do shit loud of mistakes....If Marv did jabs only....you wouldn't have gotten even a god damn combo on him unless you manage to get a lucky pop up.....

Not to mention the bizarre opportunities you had and did not abuse....

In the end I'm gonna tell you one thing....REO is the best at everything he touches....come play him and then talk.....

Peace...

That's why this thread was made, because REO won with Noob. REO won with a character that has no specials, he could only GJ and do his combos. (Which I must point out that Noob has much more than that. Like I said in my last post, Noob has by far the fastest walking speed, it's almost like a run. And he has 50% more health than everyone. And being able to be invisible on some stages and different situations is really good for him.) In the first post Phil is talking about how MK2 was more exciting and had more stream numbers. And that all UMK3 is now is boring Kara Jab fest, and all you need is Kara Jabs and a dream. And I'm sorry, but that's just not true. If that were true, players like Bass would be able to win all the time. ALL he does is the Glitch Jabs, I'd even say he does them more than Marv. And you know what? He gets destroyed, every single time.

Bass can probably see this, but I don't care. He can beat the majority of players, in fact, I'd say he's a top 20 player. A lot of people would read that and say "see, him being able to win with just GJ's proves they're broken and mind numbingly easy". But that's not it, the problem is people refuse to "buy into" glitch jabs. Him being a top 20 player is because, like I said before, he uses the GJ's effectively. And if someone plays him and does not use them, it's always going to be at least an 8-2 match-up in his favor. The fact is, there's just not enough people willing to use GJ's, understand them, utilize them, defend against them, or whatever way else you can phrase it. I too was on the same boat as you guys, you can even find that thread I made and see it. It wasn't until I saw how easily it is to beat them, that I realized they aren't as OP as they seem. Don't get me wrong, they're very very good and broken. HOWEVER, they are only OP when you don't know what to do against them, and don't use them yourself. When both players know how to use, abuse and defend against them, you won't see them abusing them against each other. That is, you won't see it if they want to win.

I'm not saying you're bad or anything Simon, not at all. If I gave that impression I apologize. You are by far one of the top Kabal players, right beside Marv, in the US. Even though I can tell you've practiced the GJ's, there's still more work to be done. AND I KNOW HOW THAT SOUNDS! I sound like a fucking little prick for saying you need to level up. Haha, I get that! But my intention is to get you in the lab using, and defending against them. My intention is not to just say you're not good enough, you KNOW ME BETTER THAN THAT! I GUARANTEE that if we had 20-30 players that were on par with each other when it came to high level GJabbing, the game would certainly not be boring and the level of competition would be INSANE!

These guys know how to use and abuse GJ's, and look how awesome and amazing this gameplay is:

If that video is boring to you, maaaaaaaaan.

9.95 Tim Static Dark_Rob ZAQ AC1984 Panque Eternal dedMIKECALDWELL STRYKIE Project: ALICE NinjaGrinder AREZ God of War Konqrr OUIJA WARRIOR Vulcan Hades MKK hanzo REO THTB NoDoubt

 

[Eternal]

...

 

[MIKECALDWELL]

That video was very entertaining, but how many people are actually ever gonna reach that level. Is Trilogy faster than UMK3 bc its seems so. Those South American players appear to be superior in this game.

 

[AREZ God of War]

I dont buy that those guys are high-level. They may have mastered gitch-jabs, but if u look at 1:44 , no good player wouldn't ATTEMPT a 2nd JK/AFB or even a 3rd....the end position stillplaces them atop their opponents for corner jab traps, but that guy didnt even delay his AFB....it's almost like he didn't know a 2nd JK/AFB existed which kind of supports my theory on lazy gamers. They are so absorbed in GJ,KJs that they didnt take the time to learn about Kabal's pride and joy? What else does he have to show uniqueness besides his corner combos?

I'm sorry, but IMO, that isn't the right order to learn things in the game. GJ/KJ should be the LAST thing u learn. Highest damaging combos for your character should come before.....and it should also happen on reaction. U can't tell me a good Kabal player wouldn't go for JK/AFBx3 in any circumstance, bar none. It's no risk!! He just doesn't know it.

 

[ded]

if i may join the offtopic, there are two things i want to put on the table:
1. South americans (dominicans, vzla, and etc) are the best MKT players in the world
2. Glitch jabs in MKT are different than in UMK3 (check Marcelo's strats)

 

[Juggs]

I dont buy that those guys are high-level. They may have mastered gitch-jabs, but if u look at 1:44 , no good player wouldn't ATTEMPT a 2nd JK/AFB or even a 3rd....the end position stillplaces them atop their opponents for corner jab traps, but that guy didnt even delay his AFB....it's almost like he didn't know a 2nd JK/AFB existed which kind of supports my theory on lazy gamers. They are so absorbed in GJ,KJs that they didnt take the time to learn about Kabal's pride and joy? What else does he have to show uniqueness besides his corner combos?

I'm sorry, but IMO, that isn't the right order to learn things in the game. GJ/KJ should be the LAST thing u learn. Highest damaging combos for your character should come before.....and it should also happen on reaction. U can't tell me a good Kabal player wouldn't go for JK/AFBx3 in any circumstance, bar none. It's no risk!! He just doesn't know it.

He did the pop-up too early, so he wasn't close enough to the corner to get more JK AFB's. He may have been able to maximize the combo if he pushed the opponent further in the corner before he started the combo. But the pace is so fast in MKT, he probably did it a little too soon so that Kabal (the opponents) wouldn't recover before he even got the combo off. Regardless, you're splitting hairs Eric.

if i may join the offtopic, there are two things i want to put on the table:
1. South americans (dominicans, vzla, and etc) are the best MKT players in the world
2. Glitch jabs in MKT are different than in UMK3 (check Marcelo's strats)

How are they different?

 

[ded]

due to game's speed mostly, gjabs have more options. some scenarios and strats that work in mkt will not in umk3.

 

[Dark_Rob]

Look guys, both sides see this game for what it is. Both sides will readily admit in the neutral game kara/glitch jabbing is the most dominant strategy. Its inherently broken because you can attack and defend at the same time. The only difference is one group of people like it and still feel there's an important metagame in their use. While the other side feels its just trash,both to play and watch. Imo both sides are right.

 

[9.95]

Look guys, both sides see this game for what it is. Both sides will readily admit in the neutral game kara/glitch jabbing is the most dominant strategy. Its inherently broken because you can attack and defend at the same time. The only difference is one group of people like it and still feel there's an important metagame in their use. While the other side feels its just trash,both to play and watch. Imo both sides are right.

This is EXACTLY what I've been saying all along.

Never have I said that people SHOULDN'T play UMK3.

Never have I said that those who play UMK3 SHOULDN'T use Kara/Glitch Jabs... they are obviously the dominant strategy and if you play to win, you must learn them

My argument, all along, was always that the mechanic of attacking and defending in a fighting game AT THE SAME TIME is an inherently broken mechanic, and that people who wish to learn UMK3, above all else, need to understand that the dominant tactic in the game involves learning, using, and abusing an inherently broken mechanic. If you're ok with that, then play UMK3, if not, move on to a game that better suits you.

 

[SwiftTomHanks]

That video was boring to me. The graphics were really old, the round was stolen from a different game, the animations were stiff, I found the UI rather uninspired, that Nightwolf character seems rather racist, all they were doing was spaming pokes and jogging around.

 

[NinjaGrinder]

Ok, first off

I really need to say this: Simon, I didn't say you suck at the game. I didn't even implied it. Sorry brother if I gave you that impression. But you're wrong. I just said you were out of shape. You're obviusly not putting that same training time on UMK3 as before. I even said I'm sure you can do better than that. I said that because I truly believe in your skills, I 've watched you play a lot better in other matches. I've even played you once (online, I know, but regardless). So, like I was talking about Summoning's MK2 match, I'm not bashing you or criticizing you. You CAN do better than that. It's like someone said, it looked like you just wanted the matches to end quickly, no matter what. I hope you can believe in my words, since you are truly appreciated by me since ded introduced us.

Now, looking at that MKT video... man those guys are good or what? if you look closely, of course there's mistakes, no one's perfect. No one. I catched some others but that's normal and the match is from a tournament. But I could see some awesome shit too! they can read each other sometimes it's scary, the mind games are sick, you almost don't see throws and sweeps, of course they risk themselves sometimes and you see sweeps and "naked" specials being thrown (and connected). But the pace, the pressure... and the speed of the game makes some tricks impossible in UMK3, I agree with ded. But you can clearly see they abuse GJs and defend against GJs, they don't stay in one spot throwing punches for a long time, they constanly move and advance, they can escape in some situations as well. I don't think they could have reached that level without GJs

Again, sorry Simon If I offended you, I hope we're cool, bro.

 

[MKK hanzo]

That video was very entertaining, but how many people are actually ever gonna reach that level. Is Trilogy faster than UMK3 bc its seems so. Those South American players appear to be superior in this game.

Glad you liked it but that is a 2009 vid or so. Search for yt channel user "jjrf24" and watch the latest mkt tourney. There you will see the highest level in mkt. Its like the japanese playing sf.

And that line: "how many ppl are actually ever gonna reach that level" thats the kind of mentality adopted in all this thread. These Dominican guys ARE the best and if they played umk3 I can assure you that they would be very high too. Also players from Chile and Colombia. You should learn what juggs said: stop, implement, abuse, counter gjabs. Is not easy bu YOU HAVE TO PLAY TO WIN uh?

If infs and relaunchers are enabled, why not gjabs? You can even drop your controller when an inf hit you BUT you can do a lot of stuff to gjabbers.

Regarding AC: bro you told me that you wernt even warming up umk3, no one is doubting your skills. You are one of the top US players but you were off practice that day. Or what about aaaall those jumps you didnt spin punished? It happens to all of us.

Btw I want a Reo (noob) vs Marvin (kabal) first to 10. Whos with me?

Bets open. Offline of course.

Edit: I might add Nodoubt in this top. Guy is DANGEROUS as fuck and he doesnt even play top tiers.

Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk

 

[NinjaGrinder]

That bet's useless and it's not gonna happen even if the circumstances present because it would make everyone just stop playing the game altogether... most of 'em think an expert GJabber doesn't have talent, because winning with a simple, broken, stupid tactic takes no talent and therefore, no one can beat that. There's no point in playing, right?

Phil, you're not telling anyone "don't play the game" or "hey you, stop Gjabbing already" but this thread and your words, affect player's view of the game because, like I said, you're a leader. And if your closest friends (obviously umk3 players) are with you, even worse... the top players are just quitting 'cause they think GJ is stupid and ruined the game for good. There's no need to tell anyone to stop playing with that aproach...

Don't play the game anymore in tournaments if you don't want to. That's your choice. But don't make such a thread and don't say such words like the ones in the first page and tell me later "Never have I said that people SHOULDN'T play UMK3"...

 

[AREZ God of War]

We would have alot more high and top level players without GJ/KJs holding them back. I think GJ/KJers should get a taste of their own medicine, so given the circumstances, I vote we hack UMK3 again and make health bars only deplete on unblocked hits.

With no chip damage, less and less people will revolve their game arounf GJ/KJ as they will be much much MUCH less useful

 

[ArsenalOfGlory]

Or we could all just play MKII...

 

[MIKECALDWELL]

What i'm curious about is how the pro glitch jabbers would do if they were just doing normal run jabs. Another thing I would like to know is how glitch jabbing adds depth to the game. It seems to me that this tactic renders alot of specials and normals useless, so how can it possibly add depth? I'm asking, not arguing.

 

[THTB]

Top players would still be top players because they already understand the game very well, anyway.

 

[9.95]

Phil, you're not telling anyone "don't play the game" or "hey you, stop Gjabbing already" but this thread and your words, affect player's view of the game because, like I said, you're a leader. And if your closest friends (obviously umk3 players) are with you, even worse... the top players are just quitting 'cause they think GJ is stupid and ruined the game for good. There's no need to tell anyone to stop playing with that aproach...

Don't play the game anymore in tournaments if you don't want to. That's your choice. But don't make such a thread and don't say such words like the ones in the first page and tell me later "Never have I said that people SHOULDN'T play UMK3"...

I say it because it's fair. I say it because other leaders in the community are allowed to voice their opinion in favor of playing the game.

Ultimately, I say it because all players have a right to know both sides of the story. Neither is right or wrong, but I do have my opinion of both sides, and I'm entitled not only to my opinion, but to voice them as well.

As a leader of this community, it's my duty to make clear the choices players have, the knowledge available to them to make those choices, and why I choose what I choose.

Anything else would be purposely deluding the players, and that simply isn't fair.

 

[MIKECALDWELL]

Top players would still be top players because they already understand the game very well, anyway.

True, but I bet their matches with guys they normally beat like 8-2 would all of sudden start to even out a bit.

 

[MKK hanzo]

What i'm curious about is how the pro glitch jabbers would do if they were just doing normal run jabs. Another thing I would like to know is how glitch jabbing adds depth to the game. It seems to me that this tactic renders alot of specials and normals useless, so how can it possibly add depth? I'm asking, not arguing.

You have ti fight harder to land combos, to make your opponent jump and punish him, you need to be quicker to punish blocked moves, etc.

Remember that if you are gjabbin your opponent too, so he has the same advantages and disvantages than you. Forget totally about the players standing mashing punch+blk. That will get them nothing (specially if you have a life lead so they have to PURSUE YOU) UNLESS you dont know what to do and do a desperate jump or "run into" the punches etc.

There are many ways around this man but ppl dont want to spend time on it. And that "it loooks silly" blah blah ppl have to get that out of their minds. Lol not playing a game for how it looks...

Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk

 

[AREZ God of War]

What i'm curious about is how the pro glitch jabbers would do if they were just doing normal run jabs.

Not nearly as well and I think the entire top tier or at least upper-tier of the players would shift to people who know the entire game more thoroughly. Once again, large devastating combos would rule UMK3 and it would not only be fun to play again, but fun to watch as well with ooohhs and ahhhhhs coming from everyone and it would take lots or practice and talent to play UMK3 again.

Another thing I would like to know is how glitch jabbing adds depth to the game.

It doesn't. Idk why people think it does, but if anything it makes the game shallow and corny and boring. A move that nullifies the majority of characters' tools/moves doesn't add to depth at all in any instance.

It seems to me that this tactic renders alot of specials and normals useless, so how can it possibly add depth? I'm asking, not arguing.

My thing is, GJ/KJ along w/ Noob weren't intentionally added to the game to be used by players. How can we justify using tactics that nullify and extinguish the tools that ARE supposed to be there at our disposal to use effectively to win with? Even if it does pass to the rest of the high level players mastering those tactics to become top/elites, then what next? With MORE people using it it's only going to discourage learning and middle-level guys to even attempt to get better because everything they know now seems useless and inferior.

People who are "for" GJ/KJ are not thinking about the welfare of the game's future and followers to be. We need to start considering how many people have been pushed away and shun this game simply because we thinks it's ok to abuse garbage glitches that were an accident. People that can't understand that are just being selfish. You don't have to AGREE, just understand and respect that perspective. I don't agree w/ GJ/KJ but I still fight againstpeople who use them, and I do it to death for hours on end

There are many ways around this man but ppl dont want to spend time on it. And that "it loooks silly" blah blah ppl have to get that out of their minds. Lol not playing a game for how it looks...

I sure am, Hanzo. The only reason I picked up this game in 1995 was cuz it had a sick-ass combo system, was fast paced and fun to watch while waiting for your turn. I have to find a massive flaw in your statement Brotha, cuz if this game didn't look as pretty as it did mechanics-wise (pre-GJ/KJ era), it wouldn't HAVE a following at all. You telling me Killer Instinct didn't get a huge crowd cuz of the way it looked?