The Power Nth -- Hawkgirl General Discussion Thread

[D_Matt_Ma]

Not to ruin everybody's optimism, but she really has a hard time with the lanterns. Sinestro and GL REALLY give her a hard time since she doesn't have any armor moves. The only reason she isn't low tier is she makes up for this with her strong close game. She probably has just as hard a time with zoners as some of the worst characters in the game. Again, she makes up for it with close range, but that's still a pretty big weakness. What I wouldn't do if her ground mace toss were mid hitting or faster traveling...

 

[TAS_DASH]

Guys, I love Hawkgirl, but she's not too good in this game. I think she is potentially one of the 2 worst characters in the game when the game is fleshed out. I think a well trait managed Bane is scarier than Hawkgirl. Her great combos are liable to whiff unless you are touching. Her strongest midscreen will whiff depending on the game's current emotional state. Everyone talks about her 6 frame f1 that is only great when touching for combos. Her dash is too slow to get you to touching distance unpunished and this game has invincible wake up attacks. Her flight cancel 2 can easily whiff unless touching. Her b2,2 whiffs unless close which hurts her mixups. Her instant overhead whiffs unless touching. Her jump takes too long to effectively use it to get to touching distance. D1 into special moves and mace charges and mace throws will only get you so far. I just want a consistency patch and maybe wing evade 2 and f3 to go a little further.

I beleive I play this game on a pretty high level, so is there something I'm missing about her? I don'y like that Brady and Reo are making her up to be an A+ character b/c of the long term effect it might have on patching. I believe theoretically and on paper she's solid, but when you use her in matches it doesn't work. I don't have this problem with my other mains.

 

[Boodendorf]

D_Matt_Ma yep we already know, they're like her two worst matchups. Aside from them and Green arrow/DS, most matchups are either even or in her advantage imo.

snip

Do you have any footage of yourself of a tourney (offline/online)? Not wanting to sound like a jerk but nearly everything you said is wrong, I definitely think you're playing her the wrong way. I'd explain myself more but typing on a phone is frustrating, I'll do that when i'm home.

 

[EmInEnTShAdOw]

Guys, I love Hawkgirl, but she's not too good in this game. I think she is potentially one of the 2 worst characters in the game when the game is fleshed out.

How long have you been playing Hawkgirl? It can take some time to get used to her tools as she is somewhat unorthodox.

Her great combos are liable to whiff unless you are touching.

Her greatest combos are in the corner so this really isn't an issue

Her strongest midscreen will whiff depending on the game's current emotional state

One can get 30% consistently off a WE2 hit confirm. Off a 32 hit confirm, one could get 42% and have no problem with consistency in MT upshoulder (offline) if thats what you're referring to. It just takes practice. 32MTupshoulder should only be attempted when you're point blanc with positive advantage.

Everyone talks about her 6 frame f1 that is only great when touching for combos.

F1 is used as a quick, close ranged punish and yes the opponent is gonna be in your face if you're using F1 appropriately

Her dash is too slow to get you to touching distance unpunished and this game has invincible wake up attacks.

It's not necessary to naked dash in. Hawkgirl has so many other tools to get in on an opponent aside from a naked dash. For starters, WE2 & 3 are both positive on block. Naked dashing in is just asking to get punished.

Like you can use flight to get in. Play patient where you chuck maces from the air and then when you score that hit, MB your way in. Then time to start that offense with her strong oki game. If your opponent is wakeup happy, bait that thing out, block, and F1 punish!

Her b2,2 whiffs unless close which hurts her mixups.

B22 should only be used at a closer range once you've used her tools to work your way in. B2 does have more range than 3 as a starter.

Her instant overhead whiffs unless touching.

Her best instant overhead is IAdivekick.

Her jump takes too long to effectively use it to get to touching distance.

Jump shouldn't be used in this manner at all.

D1 into special moves and mace charges and mace throws will only get you so far.

D1 is such a strong part of her game accompanied with WE2 and WE3 to close that distance, apply pressure, and push opponent into corner. Her whole game is about bullying the opponent into corner

I just want a consistency patch and maybe wing evade 2 and f3 to go a little further.

Entirely unnecessary

I second Boo's post in I'm not trying to sound like a jerk. You have to see how Hawkgirl's tools can be incorporated into your game. Boo's got some great vids online with solid Hawky play. Check em out! Feel free to ask questions.

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

Yeah i never had "inconsistency" issues with her at all, I think you're just misjudging the range on her moves or just timing things wrong.

Only thing I can thing of is trying to divekick when i'm in flight after air mace charge and it comes out as a fly3 >__>; even then im pretty sure im just fuckin up not the game lol.

 

[Boodendorf]

Btw guys I got some pretty sick matches against Qwark28 's Black Adam but forgot about them, I think I'll start uploading them tonight.
The first matches are meh, dunno why I was playing so badly, probably was getting adjusted to the lag/was starting to wake up a bit because I'm constantly tired these days lol. They're prepatch, but since BA and HG didn't get anything I'll still upload em.

 

[TAS_DASH]

D_Matt_Ma yep we already know, they're like her two worst matchups. Aside from them and Green arrow/DS, most matchups are either even or in her advantage imo.


Do you have any footage of yourself of a tourney (offline/online)? Not wanting to sound like a jerk but nearly everything you said is wrong, I definitely think you're playing her the wrong way. I'd explain myself more but typing on a phone is frustrating, I'll do that when i'm home.

No, but in tourney's I just use GL, WW, and Bane in certain match ups and this weekend will add the Flash. It's easier to win certain match ups with BANE than HG. I don't play online and am not into uploading my stuff. I'm pretty big in unveiling my tech at tourneys. I play against KH all the time.

I think WW dominates HG because of her air superiority. To me an easy match up for WW. I don't know that I agree that other match ups are heavily in her favor. I continue to practice with her, but don't think this stuff is as viable and consistent as you all do.

 

[TAS_DASH]

Btw guys I got some pretty sick matches against Qwark28 's Black Adam but forgot about them, I think I'll start uploading them tonight.
The first matches are meh, dunno why I was playing so badly, probably was getting adjusted to the lag/was starting to wake up a bit because I'm constantly tired these days lol. They're prepatch, but since BA and HG didn't get anything I'll still upload em.

I'll def start checking out your stuff for idea and appreciate your feedback

 

[TAS_DASH]

I second Boo's post in I'm not trying to sound like a jerk. You have to see how Hawkgirl's tools can be incorporated into your game. Boo's got some great vids online with solid Hawky play. Check em out! Feel free to ask questions.

No offense taken. I appreciate your feedback. I've been using her since launch and understand she's unorthodox. When I play fighting games I try to bring knowledge from all my previous fighting games. Have yet to really travel for tourneys and have only played tourneys in my local areas. Houston and San Diego. I stopped going hardcore after college, but competed in Tekken 05 and was one of the best in Houston during Crow's (2 time Evo champ) era here, using mid/low tier and was one of the best in SC here. I hate SF4, but am never free using Chun Li same with Marvel prior to ultimate. I played MK with Devil Jim, but stopped prior to Showtime and Cat b/c Kabal ruined that game in my opinion and once Devil Jim showed me something that I had not seen used with Johnny Cage ever in tourney's, (I still followed on stream) I just felt the game was too silly and stopped. I won an MK, SFxT, DOA5, and TTT2 tourney in San Diego over the past year as I'm now taking a different career path and able to compete again since 05. I try to bring this up not to brag, but to show that I know fighting games pretty well and love to think outside the box. I stick to characters I love and my love for my characters comes from the DCU not injustice, so I won't give up on her. BA, Bats, and Supes are too high tier for me and even though I use GL it feels like he's pretty much in their league, so I'd rather use HG, WW, Flash and yes even Bane.

I've always been pretty good at accessing tiers and then overcoming them, not saying I'm perfect and I hope you all can prove my beliefs wrong, but now I must say I disagree with certain things posted.

I agree IA divekick is best overhead, but again can easily whiff due to near point blank range only and leave you punishable unless touching.

WE 2 must be close to touching to take advantage of frame advantage or will be punished for whiff.

"32MTupshoulder" still whiffs on certain characters sometimes even at point blank.

WE 3 is not positive at all times, put Luthor of reversal with Corp charge. You can not d1 (which is 6 f) before you get blasted by Corp charge (6f) unless close to max distance of WE3. This means many characters can punish with their 6f starters if you attempt to d1 after a WE3 from too close of a distance. WE2 is hella positive, but again if it could go a little further it would allow you to d1 WE2 from a lil bit further away than close to point blank distance. Thins means there is a huge gap between WE2 and WE3 distance for frame advantage. And if you do get there, you still have to rely on f1, or d1 or get beat out by 6 or 7 frame normals, hence my remark about essentially spamming d1 with her.

Her advancing strings can get blown up due to the first strike's lack of speed and range to get to WE2 frame advantage.

Her air mace throw MB is negative on block which doesn't allow that pressure. Her ground Mace Throw, although positive pushes them back to far to take advantage of it, unless they are ducking. Even the amazing d1 whiffs. Smart players know to block HG high the mass majority of the time. She can only force low block with sweep.

"B2 does have more range than 3 as a starter" But if b2,2 can't be used from that distance we have to cancel to WE which puts us right back up to my comment above about WE2 and 3.

I do everything else you say, but I don't think it's as efficient as you all do. I believe it's a lot easier and more efficient with other characters, thus my opinion of her placement closer to the bottom than the top.

I do appreciate you all's commitment to this character and the tech you come up with. One last question are Boo's videos of offline play which heavily differentiates from online play. I've also yet to see a great HG in tourney's. Do you guys have any links to any vids of this. Thank you again guys. I appreciate the feedback.

 

[Boodendorf]

How I wish I was home to answer this long post but I'm still on my phone, I'll only answer what was directly aimed at me:

I do appreciate you all's commitment to this character and the tech you come up with. One last question are Boo's videos of offline play which heavily differentiates from online play. I've also yet to see a great HG in tourney's. Do you guys have any links to any vids of this. Thank you again guys. I appreciate the feedback.

I didn't completely understand this question but are you trying to say something like "why are the offline and online matches so different?"?
If you're talking about the matches I recorded with my phone there are two reasons:
1)those tourneys were done very early, I think two weeks after release, my HG wasn't as optimized as she is today.
2)it's the first time I ever arrived at the finals of a fighting game tournament, ever. I've never been as good as I am in Injustice right now in other FGs. The tension was also overwhelming, making me do a lot of mistakes.

I mostly play online because I don't have much free time to go out (and in france there aren't any offline injustice tourney right now anyway).
There's some good competition online though, especially with some guys from this forum, such as Qwark28.

 

[TAS_DASH]

offline things can't be exploited and things are punished easier due to lack of latency. It always makes a huge difference in every fighting game. No disrespect, but all tourney folks know that. This game's net code, while better than MK's, is still relatively horrible compared to say SF3 third strike, SC5, and TTT2. Even in those games there's a huge difference offline. You can level up online by seeing and getting exposed to setups, but offline is the only real test if your theories are correct. That's why there are different tier lists for online vs offline play. No really worries about online tier lists though, so they're not as popular.

Keep leveling up, as I said I want my theories proven wrong. I will continue to use HG myself. I highly recommend trying to cultivate develop even a small offline community even though it's hard work. That's how KH become successful in MK. You will level up faster. It helps drastically. I wish you success and wait to analyze your footage, and hope you destroy with HG and take every tourney you can. Can you post the links?

 

[Boodendorf]

I'll answer to ur post later rn, busy, here link:

Last video i uploaded not best footage of me wait for new uploads imo.

 

[EmInEnTShAdOw]

"32MTupshoulder" still whiffs on certain characters sometimes even at point blank.

I'm not sure if everyone is aware of this, but 32MTupshoulder only whiffs on KF, Raven, Hawkgirl, Harley, and Catwoman. For Catwoman, there is no form of upshoulder that will work on her using 3 as a starter. However, for the rest of the women, 32MTupshoulder can be replaced with 3MTupshoulder. You can still get 45% too off of 1 meter. When hit confirming 3MT, hold MT until you see the 3 confirm then release and complete the combo. This way if opponent does block 3, you can still back dash by holding the MT. It can be hard to react to, so prolly best used as a punish. 32 is much easier in that it allows you that extra time to see the confirm.

I have not tested Batgirl, but I'm sure 32MTupshoulder will whiff on her. Not sure if 3MTupshoulder can be used tho. Goodnite!

 

[TAS_DASH]

I'll answer to ur post later rn, busy, here link:

Last video i uploaded not best footage of me wait for new uploads imo.

I know this is going to come out completely wrong and I mean no disrespect by any of this. I'm letting you know when you start playing people on a higher level, it's not enough. When you guys finally realize it, it will be too late. You all are using the same strategy I stated before that eventually gets beat due to its lack of diversity on a high level. Look how many of her strings are not being used. Everyone in the game, and all fighting games tries to get you in corners and has big corner combos. What game doesn't?
1. That Black Adam wasn't that good
2. Hawkgirl can navigate through cyborg's fireballs well. That is actually a fun match up for her
3. i actually do more with hawkgirl than that.
I had a friend who is a much better Black Adam who also plays with KH all of the time analyze the video. He knows the match up very well playing me stated #1 the Black Adam was not that good, and 2 my hawkgirl is better than that. Guys this is not about bragging, but that won't confuse Brady, Reo, Maxter, Pig, CD Jr, CD, PL, Showtime (KH), Cat(KH), Scar(KH), Chris G, Nerd Josh, GGA, VSM, etc and even people on a level right below them. The point is nothing she has, all of evidence I've presented before, will get her past those people. I'm not asking for much, but this video is basically reiterating what I said.
1. Look how many times d1 WE3 whiffed. He was too far to use WE2. Think about the evidence that I'm presenting. Test it out in the lab. You will start to see I hope. There is some good tech out there and some is stuff I have yet to implement, but even when I do it's just easier to use my other mains meaning that she is lower tier.

Tier means using at optimal use who is better. WW, GL can conquer all of these things a lot easier with less effort and more efficiently. This is why they are higher tier. I just think she is low and until i see evidence, which nobody has done. You have to counter evidence with evidence not heart. My heart is with Shayera, but my brain is not. I will keep up with you guys, I wish you the best. I'm still using her. I want you guys to continue to level up, discover new tech, and win tournaments. I'm still on your side.

 

[ChemSui]

Is D1,4,instant D+3 something that gets blown up or am i just missing something about her counter poking set ups in regards to that one?

 

[Drizzle]

Is D1,4,instant D+3 something that gets blown up or am i just missing something about her counter poking set ups in regards to that one?

After d1 on block, you should be able to hit her out of it with d2, a jump normal, jabs or whatever. The same goes for blocked d1 into WE stuff from what I've seen. On hit, you just have to take it since her d1 is + a ton.

 

[TAS_DASH]

Im not going to say i disagree with you. Honestly, i 85% agree with you, thats why i asked HG forums what they thought she needed as far as buffs goes for to become a complete character and i was shocked most of the HG players saying that she's already complete. Honestly after playing the character and playing against her she is kinda easy to block and easy to approach when she's zoning. I honestly think she will have changes come to her future b/c her normals are ass tier and doesnt make since you have to T Hug It to land a decent string.

Thank you. I can agree with this... I will continue to help you out and discuss and analyze recommended buffs.

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

With the post patch buffs to Bane and Sinestro, I have a hard time putting Hawkgirl anywhere near the high level that TB/Reo are putting her.

I agree she does need buffs, but they are not buffs to make existing strengths better, but rather give her more variety. She pretty much is a character with 5 moves and 2 combos.

 

[TAS_DASH]

After d1 on block, you should be able to hit her out of it with d2, a jump normal, jabs or whatever. The same goes for blocked d1 into WE stuff from what I've seen. On hit, you just have to take it since her d1 is + a ton.

Thanks... I didn't know that. I'll be careful using that "frame trap." On hit it can whiff on certain ducking characters. And with your d1's WE 2 short distance, she can't always capitalize on her d1 ( her best tool).

 

[Boodendorf]

I know this is going to come out completely wrong and I mean no disrespect by any of this. I'm letting you know when you start playing people on a higher level, it's not enough. When you guys finally realize it, it will be too late. You all are using the same strategy I stated before that eventually gets beat due to its lack of diversity on a high level. Look how many of her strings are not being used. Everyone in the game, and all fighting games tries to get you in corners and has big corner combos. What game doesn't?
1. That Black Adam wasn't that good
2. Hawkgirl can navigate through cyborg's fireballs well. That is actually a fun match up for her
3. i actually do more with hawkgirl than that.
I had a friend who is a much better Black Adam who also plays with KH all of the time analyze the video. He knows the match up very well playing me stated #1 the Black Adam was not that good, and 2 my hawkgirl is better than that. Guys this is not about bragging, but that won't confuse Brady, Reo, Maxter, Pig, CD Jr, CD, PL, Showtime (KH), Cat(KH), Scar(KH), Chris G, Nerd Josh, GGA, VSM, etc and even people on a level right below them. The point is nothing she has, all of evidence I've presented before, will get her past those people. I'm not asking for much, but this video is basically reiterating what I said.
1. Look how many times d1 WE3 whiffed. He was too far to use WE2. Think about the evidence that I'm presenting. Test it out in the lab. You will start to see I hope. There is some good tech out there and some is stuff I have yet to implement, but even when I do it's just easier to use my other mains meaning that she is lower tier.

Tier means using at optimal use who is better. WW, GL can conquer all of these things a lot easier with less effort and more efficiently. This is why they are higher tier. I just think she is low and until i see evidence, which nobody has done. You have to counter evidence with evidence not heart. My heart is with Shayera, but my brain is not. I will keep up with you guys, I wish you the best. I'm still using her. I want you guys to continue to level up, discover new tech, and win tournaments. I'm still on your side.

Did you even read what I wrote under the video? "That wasn't my best performance."
You think everybody is gonna be top notch at 1am, after a day of work? Me, Hezbo and SaJa were ALL tired and just wanted to get over this tourney so we could go to sleep, of course our execution, mind and neutral game aren't gonna be good. Add the shitty online environment and tadah, you got retarded looking matches. I just posted the video because it's the last video I uploaded.
Saying "I'm a better Hawkgirl" is cool, "I fight better people than all of your here" yes okay, but for the lord of god this is going to piss me off more at the end of the day than anything when you just don't have any kind of "proof", be it tourney stream or recorded match or anything. Why should I take your word when you say that you're the best hawkgirl that ever existed and that you know everything about her when you don't have any footage of yourself? Can't those KH guys record stuff?

As for not using some strings:
Why should I force myself to use her whole moveset? Nearly every character in every fighting game prioritize on using some attacks more than their whole moveset (outside of combos), because there's always stuff that's shitty and won't help you. It's not because those characters don't use some attacks that they're gonna be wrecked by pro players or whatever you call them. If you can't open them up with what you have then don't blame it on the character and ask for her to be buffed to sagat tier, because she has enough tools to do so.

Just saying that other characters do stuff better is stupid as well, because that applies in every fighting game. You should just pick Batman and GL in that case.
I can't see your evidence anywhere, where's the video about it?

As much as I would love to rant more it's 10 am, I didn't get a wink of sleep and need to go somewhere now.

 

[TAS_DASH]

Did you even read what I wrote under the video? "That wasn't my best performance."
You think everybody is gonna be top notch at 1am, after a day of work? Me, Hezbo and SaJa were ALL tired and just wanted to get over this tourney so we could go to sleep, of course our execution, mind and neutral game aren't gonna be good. Add the shitty online environment and tadah, you got retarded looking matches. I just posted the video because it's the last video I uploaded.
Saying "I'm a better Hawkgirl" is cool, "I fight better people than all of your here" yes okay, but for the lord of god this is going to piss me off more at the end of the day than anything when you just don't have any kind of "proof", be it tourney stream or recorded match or anything. Why should I take your word when you say that you're the best hawkgirl that ever existed and that you know everything about her when you don't have any footage of yourself? Can't those KH guys record stuff?

As for not using some strings:
Why should I force myself to use her whole moveset? Nearly every character in every fighting game prioritize on using some attacks more than their whole moveset (outside of combos), because there's always stuff that's shitty and won't help you. It's not because those characters don't use some attacks that they're gonna be wrecked by pro players or whatever you call them. If you can't open them up with what you have then don't blame it on the character and ask for her to be buffed to sagat tier, because she has enough tools to do so.

Just saying that other characters do stuff better is stupid as well, because that applies in every fighting game. You should just pick Batman and GL in that case.
I can't see your evidence anywhere, where's the video about it?

As much as I would love to rant more it's 10 am, I didn't get a wink of sleep and need to go somewhere now.

You take this too personal bro, good luck to you in your future. I produced evidence in writing, bro. Read it and give evidence to counter it. KH does stream, but I don't play on their stream. Saying you can beat all of us or whatever, but since we can't play, it's not evidence. All I have to say is I can beat you and what evidence is that? Go talk to pros about online vs offline. I said you all would take it wrong and you obviously did. So good luck. I can read evidence and don't need video to prove it. I understand written factual data as well as video, but your video proved my evidence not yours. Read the other's who commented, some agree with me. Accept it, not everyone agrees with you. That's life


Update: I'm sorry I read it wrong. I didn't say I was better my friend did. I didn't mean it to demean you. I'm glad you leveled up. I don't understand why we have to legitimize ourselves to gain respect. I gave data that has yet to be disproven. People are actually proving it and adding to things I didn't know. We want the same thing a competition level HG. I apologize I read it wrong. I will leave this up so you can see I'm willing to admit a mistake. I may have just come into this thread today, but that doesn't mean I should have to validate myself. I don't feel she's complete. You just wrote I was wrong and I'll prove you are when I get home and write it. However, I don't think you did. I'm saying let's work together to make a legit HG and allow everyone to express concerns w/o validation or videos. Let's help people if we have solutions. If not let's either work to find a solution or admit she needs a buff to be competitive not god tier. If she stays as is I truly think she will wash away as the game advances. That's my opinion and I don't want that to happen. Again I apologize, bro, and hope we can open each other's eyes to our concepts and ideas.

PS I would be happy with Sagat Tier as he is not that good.

 

[EmInEnTShAdOw]

WE 3 is not positive at all times, put Luthor of reversal with Corp charge. You can not d1 (which is 6 f) before you get blasted by Corp charge (6f) unless close to max distance of WE3. This means many characters can punish with their 6f starters if you attempt to d1 after a WE3 from too close of a distance. WE2 is hella positive, but again if it could go a little further it would allow you to d1 WE2 from a lil bit further away than close to point blank distance. Thins means there is a huge gap between WE2 and WE3 distance for frame advantage. And if you do get there, you still have to rely on f1, or d1 or get beat out by 6 or 7 frame normals, hence my remark about essentially spamming d1 with her.

I have to say that I believe punishing WE3 is not as easy as you think. It is all determinant on spacing and crossup. Lets take your example for instance in that an opponent attempts a punish off a standing 6F normal string post WE3 block. It is hard for the opponent to always know whether We3 will cross up on block. If they don't comprehend the spacing right and WE3 doesn't cross up, We2 is for free. Do you think one might risk that? Maybe/maybe not, but the strength from a blocked WE3 comes from crossup capability and HG's pressure off a blocked WE3.

Now say I (as HG) do WE3, opponent blocks, I cross up, I do 6F quick string. In a very minute amount of frames, opponent has to determine the spacing correctly, understand that WE3 will cross up, and react quick enough off the block to beat my 6F quick string. If my opponent does all of this right and fast, he'll get a combo. If he is just a little tentative (and I mean a little tentative), we'll trade or I get a free combo. Again is that worth the risk? This is an example I've faced playing against Hawkgirl.

Now given these scenarios, punishing We3 is not certain. Where there is uncertainty, opponent blocks more. When opponent blocks more, that opens up more stuff on a blocked WE3 like the remainder of her normal strings, throws, sweeps, etc. If an opponent attempts a low poke off a blocked We3, you have IAdivekick or WE2 confirm. Point being, opponents have to respect a blocked WE3.

 

[TAS_DASH]

I have to say that I believe punishing WE3 is not as easy as you think. It is all determinant on spacing and crossup. Lets take your example for instance in that an opponent attempts a punish off a standing 6F normal string post WE3 block. It is hard for the opponent to always know whether We3 will cross up on block. If they don't comprehend the spacing right and WE3 doesn't cross up, We2 is for free. Do you think one might risk that? Maybe/maybe not, but the strength from a blocked WE3 comes from crossup capability and HG's pressure off a blocked WE3.

Now say I (as HG) do WE3, opponent blocks, I cross up, I do 6F quick string. In a very minute amount of frames, opponent has to determine the spacing correctly, understand that WE3 will cross up, and react quick enough off the block to beat my 6F quick string. If my opponent does all of this right and fast, he'll get a combo. If he is just a little tentative (and I mean a little tentative), we'll trade or I get a free combo. Again is that worth the risk? This is an example I've faced playing against Hawkgirl.

Now given these scenarios, punishing We3 is not certain. Where there is uncertainty, opponent blocks more. When opponent blocks more, that opens up more stuff on a blocked WE3 like the remainder of her normal strings, throws, sweeps, etc. If an opponent attempts a low poke off a blocked We3, you have IAdivekick or WE2 confirm. Point being, opponents have to respect a blocked WE3.

I was referring to people say use that to close the distance to get to point blank range. I was saying why that is not optimal. I agree with what you wrote, but that doesn't prove a viable and practical way to get to touching distance to utilize her other strings. That's it.

 

[EmInEnTShAdOw]

I know this is going to come out completely wrong and I mean no disrespect by any of this. I'm letting you know when you start playing people on a higher level, it's not enough. When you guys finally realize it, it will be too late. You all are using the same strategy I stated before that eventually gets beat due to its lack of diversity on a high level.......

3. i actually do more with hawkgirl than that........

I had a friend who is a much better Black Adam who also plays with KH all of the time analyze the video. He knows the match up very well playing me stated #1 the Black Adam was not that good, and 2 my hawkgirl is better than that. Guys this is not about bragging

This is exactly why I wanna see your vids. I'd like to see exactly how you're using hawkgirl and analyze that. If you're saying that she can get blown up against people on a higher level, you play against good guys, and your friend saying your hawkgirl is better, there is naturally just an interest in seeing this. No disrespect whatsoever.

I may have just come into this thread today, but that doesn't mean I should have to validate myself.

Thats true. You shouldn't have to validate yourself. However, with your above quotes and given the situation, I think its pretty necessary now.

 

[TAS_DASH]

This is exactly why I wanna see your vids. I'd like to see exactly how you're using hawkgirl and analyze that. If you're saying that she can get blown up against people on a higher level, you play against good guys, and your friend saying your hawkgirl is better, there is naturally just an interest in seeing this. No disrespect whatsoever.



Thats true. You shouldn't have to validate yourself. However, with your above quotes and given the situation, I think its pretty necessary now.

Well, then think it's necessary. Go to practice mode and test the shit out yourself. Then you can see to believe. Are you too lazy? I've listed evidence, but you are countering me, not the evidence. People have come in and seconded evidence I have said. You are entitled to your opinion and I don't have to show you a video to know the things I listed are facts. Go to practice mode test out the evidence and see. I did it with you all's rebuttal. Some other people are bringing up other holes to your philosophies, but you're so right that they have to be wrong. That's pretty arrogant bro. This should be an easy rebuttal is you're so right. People are writing other holes in you and boo's arguments but what have you done to write back. I know, zero.

If you find me on the internet then you found me. I go by a different name but there is footage of me playing several fighting games and pictures of me winning tournaments in the fighting games listed above. As I said good luck finding it. If I have to prove myself, then I got a question for you... who in the blue hell are you? Do you know me? Do you pay my rent? If so I'll give your opinions more thought. Until then, use evidence to disprove mine as I have for you.

BTW WE3 sometimes clearly misses people even if d1 connects and they are ducking. And easy to react to and punish that's 41% for Aqua, 47% for supes. Do I have to list everyone to appease you?