General/Other The Killing Art of Sub-Zero - Why He Needs ZERO Buffs

[Gameninja521]

What!?!? Sub's reset is getting removed? So Tom's 'official new BnB' video on Youtube is now pointless?

 

[Altaire]

So whats your suggestion? Less damage? He would still have the tactics you described. What can you do then?

How is this not self-explanatory? Sure, he'd have the same tactics, but they'd be less effective. I don't mind Ermac being able to do what he does, but I don't think he should be rewarded for it quite like he is. No turtling character should have higher damage output than the overwhelming majority of the cast.

 

[doomfarmer]

I don't mean to be that guy, but it seems like they're more concerned with buffing the more popular characters (and hopefully nerfing the problem children like Cyrax and Kung Lao), rather than trying to work on the lame ducks.

Again, why do you think NRS is not looking at those characters??? Someone from NRS has never said, not one time, that those characters are not going to have some kind of change in the patch. Everyone keeps saying WHAT WHY IS SUB BLAH BLAH BLAH but, you have no idea who else is going to get nerfed and who else is going to get buffed. There's a bunch of crying about a patch that isn't even released yet. The fuck?!?

 

[Altaire]

Again, why do you think NRS is not looking at those characters??? Someone from NRS has never said, not one time, that those characters are not going to have some kind of change in the patch. Everyone keeps saying WHAT WHY IS SUB BLAH BLAH BLAH but, you have no idea who else is going to get nerfed and who else is going to get buffed. There's a bunch of crying about a patch that isn't even released yet. The fuck?!?

I addressed this within the same post. In fact, it was pretty much immediately after the part you quoted.

Good call.

 

[Smarrgasm]

the reason people say ermac has bad wake up options is because if you cross him up he has exactly no way of dealing with it other than sitting on block. Pressuring ermac with multiple crossovers is how you break him. Its just all about the fight to get in. We should start focusing more on sub zero than the other characters cause we have to deal with them regardless and theres no reason to start a character war over something as trivial as a buff that was meant to help in 1 or 2 matchups.

 

[OnizukaPM]

So Sub-Zero new BnB is getting removed, and he wont gain any dmg boots right? Makes sense

 

[SilverKeyMan]

In summary:
* Reset option is being removed.
* Ability to do large combo damage is removed.
* Sub still rocks at pushing people into a corner and keeping them there.
* New slide features make Sub better at pushing people into the corner.

Seems to me that NRS is trying to buff Sub-Zero for intermediate skill level players, while nerfing him for expert level players that can reliably do the reset.

-SKM (is intermediate skill level)

 

[Bizkit]

In summary:
* Reset option is being removed.
* Ability to do large combo damage is removed.
* Sub still rocks at pushing people into a corner and keeping them there.
* New slide features make Sub better at pushing people into the corner.

Seems to me that NRS is trying to buff Sub-Zero for intermediate skill level players, while nerfing him for expert level players that can reliably do the reset.

-SKM (is intermediate skill level)

Well, the thing about EX slide, is that it has a second hit which knocks them in the opposite direction. Which is good if you're in the corner, but really doesn't do help much if they are zoning you, not to mention it pushes them back away from you, and its techable, so they can go straight back to zoning... Really, I don't see the armor doing much good.

 

[SilverKeyMan]

But even the normal slide is getting buffed:

lol, dude imo the "buff" of slide going under high projectiles is more of a "THATS WHAT ITS SUPPOSED TO DO!" than an actual buff. the armor to the ex slide is a buff. losing the reset is a nerf. they could slightly bump his damage but overall getting his slide to go under all high projectiles is HUGE and the biggest improvement he will get.

I do agree with you, Bizkit, about the EX Slide armor not being that big of a deal, however, unless Sub is already in the corner himself.

 

[Bizkit]

But even the normal slide is getting buffed:


I do agree with you, Bizkit, about the EX Slide armor not being that big of a deal, however, unless Sub is already in the corner himself.

Really, That is not what I picked up on off his quote.. If anything, I would think he was talking just sliding under certain projectiles, not have armor... Which I'm kinda neutral on at the moment....

 

[TheChad_87]

I personally think it's stupid. I mean Goodie for Tom. It's cool that his character is getting what he wants him to have to compete.

If NRS is taking orders for what we want from our mains, I'd personally like for Cyrax' Buzzsaw to be an anti-air, Mileena's Roll to hit low, and Jade's EN Glow to last an extra second.
And no, I don't think any of those are any more ridiculous than what's going on here.

Where's the Sindel buff. There's your character that needs a buff.

 

[doomfarmer]

I addressed this within the same post. In fact, it was pretty much immediately after the part you quoted.

Good call.

LOL you were right, my bad. I usually only read one or two lines and then all crying and complaining looks exactly the same to me as it turns into a big blur of salty tears, so I only based my quote on that first part. My mistake, guy.

 

[Kickzilla]

Why is all this being discussed in a topic about corner strategies for Sub -Zero? Not that I don't appreciate the updates from Tom Brady and the interest in this topic but kind of derailed the OP.

As for the reset I'm bummed about that, why are they going to remove it?

Is the slide "buff" confirmed as well?

 

[Altaire]

the reason people say ermac has bad wake up options is because if you cross him up he has exactly no way of dealing with it other than sitting on block. Pressuring ermac with multiple crossovers is how you break him. Its just all about the fight to get in. We should start focusing more on sub zero than the other characters cause we have to deal with them regardless and theres no reason to start a character war over something as trivial as a buff that was meant to help in 1 or 2 matchups.

You realize that if a crossup is read, he can punish you with an uppercut, right? An uppercut he can combo off of?

Ermac is nowhere near as helpless against crossups as you people seem to think. It's not like he's Kenshi.

 

[Kickzilla]

Also does this mean the whole 21xx and 212 stuff is scrapped? -_- I'm so confused right now

 

[Altaire]

LOL you were right, my bad. I usually only read one or two lines and then all crying and complaining looks exactly the same to me as it turns into a big blur of salty tears, so I only based my quote on that first part. My mistake, guy.

...How the hell was I salty or crying about anything? I said Cyrax needs a nerf, which everyone agrees on. I PLAY Cyrax, it's not like I want the character to be shot to hell. All I did in that post was tell REO why I think some characters are getting adjustments before others, and then point out that we still don't know what the other patch tweaks will be.

Nevermind how ignorant it is that you read two lines of my post and then made a baseless assumption about the rest of it.

 

[sLeeK]

pff why did I just spend the majority of my night practicing those bnbs.. Well time to put those bnbs to use while I still can. NRS I want to drag my nut sack across your face atm :\

 

[Gamin_Guru]

kinda sucks theyre removing the resets...just learned them a couple hours ago lol

SZ getting any kind of buff is bad news imo especially if it turns out his slide can go under my straight skull

 

[SilverKeyMan]

Okay, I know this is going to sound like a really stupid question, but my game is currently boxed up (I'm moving on Friday), so I can't plug it in and find out myself.

Sub-Zero's slide... is he physically lower than high projectiles? In other words, does it look like he SHOULD be going under them uninterrupted?

Also, if the current animation makes it look like they SHOULD be hitting him, are they going to redo the animation?

 

[Bidu]

"Over us"? He has it over more than Sub Zero. He also makes it all but impossible to pressure him on a knockdown, so I don't see where you get this idea that his wakeup options aren't great. If you cross him up, he'll roll or uppercut you (depending on how late you jump). If you try to attack him on wakeup, you run the risk of getting teleslammed for a full combo punish. If you block in anticipation of a teleslam... Well, you're both back to square one?

Ermac isn't exactly Shang Tsung in the way of wakeups. He has enough options to get himself out of trouble.

Impossible to pressure him on a knockdown? You're kidding me, right? I believe that's exactly how you beat most Ermac players out there as SubZ. His wakeup options are lame if you're reading his moves well. The invincibility marge of frames are so small that you can punish him with ease. Plus his enchanced moves are not so great either. They are to be avoided most of times, unless you're doing it in a combo for a kill.

You know a move that fucks up with most Ermac's wake up? F+4 (Spartan Overhead Kick).

That's coming from someone who neverevar played Ermac I just happen to constantly play against a friend of mine that mains Ermac (and our matches makes it very clear that Ermac has advantages against Sub Zero. It's not impossible, but you just have to be really, really concentrated to get the win.

 

[shura30]

where you guys get what's changing in the next patch?
nrs official website or where?

 

[doomfarmer]

You know a move that fucks up with most Ermac's wake up? F+4 (Spartan Overhead Kick).

I call it the Obama kick

even though it's unsafe I use it... ohhhhh... about 50% of the time against every character for wakeup pressure

EDIT: if you can imagine the president doing an iceball after that kick, then you pretty much have seen my sub-zero

 

[silva_777]

ermac is fine as is, cyrax will be able to do over 50% still just not in the 70's-90's, the only nerf KL needs is no pushback on spin.

Are you sure? why do you call it a nerf? spin as been ALWAYS punishable! Hard to punish? yes it was but that just meant people got to LEARN to punish that shit!
The problem with the spin isn t when its blocked the problem with the spin is just its just "there", the spin is so good you dont even have to use it, the opp just needs to know it exists.

 

[PND_Mustard]

I personally think it's stupid. I mean Goodie for Tom. It's cool that his character is getting what he wants him to have to compete.

If NRS is taking orders for what we want from our mains, I'd personally like for Cyrax' Buzzsaw to be an anti-air.

i know this is the sub zero forum so i shouldnt say it here, cyrax has enough as is, he doesnt need ANY improvements, the chest saw has its uses, if you wanna anti air them, use 'anti air'

 

[mingzang]

So with new slide , Sub will be the best anti zone character in the game >_> ???
No love for Smoke .