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Sam Wilson (falcon) will be captain america

The Great One

"I Always d1 Lif-" SHUT UP
It's cool that the only people complaining are the ones that don't read comics.
The old Thor still lives he has an axe and that's all we know.
Steve Rogers serum isn't working and he got old
Wolverine is dying for real too
Nick fury is going to happen some things to him on Original Sin.
There's a young Cyclops playing Pirate on space
Jubilee is a vampire and has a child
Hope and Cable are dying.
The Guardians split up.

In less than a year a big event will change everything this is just the tip.

EDIT:The first Captain America was black also.
I'm gonna assume this is a joke cause you seem to know comics...but the first captain America was definately not black
 

Fromundaman

I write too much.
Cable told Cyclops earlier to not trust the Avengers. So wouldn't he trust his own son? And if the Avengers really wanted to help they wouldn't have came to them with a gang of Superheroes demanding Hope from Cyclops. Of course he wouldn't have any intention of agreeing with the Avengers. Who would. When your whole species is at risk. Why would the comply with the Avengers when they never gave a damn about them. The whole K'un Lun crap was complete and utter bullshit by Bendis trying to change X-Men mythos in order to fit with the story. Hope being trained by then X-Men was the best choice, because they dealt with the Phoenix before. Phoenix would have destroyed Earth it didn't find a suitable host, and Hope was that host. The only time a phoenix avatar aka Jean went Dark Phoenix was because of an outside force acting upon her. If Mastermind did not fuck with her mind, she would have been good. Rachel never went Dark Phoenix, and she was it's avatar for years.
I'm not saying he shouldn't trust his son, but by doing so he was being hostile to the Avengers, who themselves were hostile back. When you know your enemy has hostility towards you (Not necessarily unwarranted, but still), you don't walk into their turf alone.

As for their whole species being at risk, yeah it was, but at the same time so was everyone else. This story was essentially the Marvel equivalent of the Rapture occurring and some thought it would save them while others thought it was the end of the world. It all came down to faith, and they all followed theirs.

Hope needing to be trained by the Avengers makes sense from an Avenger's point of view, BUT I would have rather it had played out in such a way that the Avengers were wrong to think that and the X-men training be better, because it didn't really make much sense for Spiderman and Iron Fist to be the best teachers for controlling the Pheonix.


That said, while you are right and Mastermind is what pushes Jean over the edge, she regains control several times throughout the Dark Pheonix saga and each time the Pheonix is too strong and takes over again, even without anyone else influencing her.
That combined with the fact that Jean literally kills herself because she doesn't see any way the Pheonix can be controlled, it really REALLY makes you wonder why Cyclops believes it should belong in his daughter.

I don't know who Rachel is though as I am not an avid X-men reader.

I do know about the Dark Pheonix saga, and I know that the Avengers showed up in it to see Jean Grey go out of control, attacking her friends and family and even cause an inter-galactic incident. In their place I would not exactly be excited to hear it could happen again.
 

Klesk_1

RIP Grundy
So what next, black panther is going to be a white guy?

imo it's just change for the sake of change. Next up Superman is going to become a ghetto mexcian female.... well that'll be great too. Because you know, according to some people on here, we're not allowed to complain if things change. I mean fuck it, why don't we just model wonderwoman on bruce lee. Some people are f**king stupid.
 

TotteryManx

cr. HP Master
I stopped reading Marvel years ago. I don't care if someone is black or white in the comic..what I do care about is the writing and it has been piss poor for years.
 

EGGXI

Scary Bat
Eh I think people are over-reacting to this new Avengers line-up.

Like chill, people freaked out about Superior Spider-Man, it ended up being awesome and even then everything went back to normal.

Miles Morales is the new Ultimate Spider-Man and it's fucking awesome, it's not "Oh for the sake of diversity!"

An Asgardian changing genders? It's not like Loki wasn't a woman for a couple a year or so in the Marvel Universe or anything.

A new Captain America? Wasn't Bucky Cap for a while, and then Steve came back from the dead, and then Bucky died, and then he came back from the dead?

I mean ffs for a while there you could flip a coin to see if Xavier could walk in that months issue of X-Men.

This is comics, weird shit happens and new people take up other people's names and shit all the time. Nothing to see here, nothing wrong with some diversity and it will probably be reverted in a few months due to time travel or some shit.
 

Saint Op Omen

Savagely beating his super-ego with his id...
Standard comic bullshitery...big world changing event once a year to pad sales...
Promote a change to loved characters for some stupid reason ...relaunch books...get sales for the change and when sales die off change them back and promote that the loved character is back ....
its a safe way to guarantee sales for at least a little while but makes all these worlds a confusing mess...which is why they have to say fuck it and reboot everything every decade or so...
 

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Marvel comics has become a landfill of shit. Ever since Marvel Now! started, everything has gone downhill.

X-Men with jacked up powers, characters dying left and right, black Nick Fury, an amazing amount of characters turning into females, good teams/characters ruined due to the influence coming from the movies.

Change isnt bad, but massive, drastic changes in short periods of time, only to be reversed in a year is completely ridiculous. I used to read many books, but I'm down to about 2 now that I actually like.
 

Chokeapotamus

Worst. Player. Ever.
Yes, a lot of people are going to yell and scream about this because they are racist.
But I do not think the OP is one of them.
The comic industry has done tremendous damage to itself over the years by trying to be trendy or shocking to increase sales. I read a ton of comics years ago but was driven away by rising costs, constant reboots, and multiple redundant titles. They kept trying to boost sales with gimmicks like the Death of Superman or Knightfall--yes it sold big numbers for the event but everyone bitched about how awful the follow-up was and they just forced the train back on track.
Now the hot topic is to drastically change characters by altering race, gender, or sexual preference (in addition to constantly returning from death--it's like a bad soap opera on that front). In a lot of cases it's met with a whopping "who cares?" since many of them have been fringe or lower-tier characters. However, when you start making wholesale changes to the big names--fan-favorites that kids grew up idolizing--it is going to rustle some jimmies. And it usually seems like it is being done for shock value, based on the writing (from what I have seen--I admit that I have not read many titles regularly for years and try to catch up by spot reading or summaries).
Is it necessary to make Captain America black? No, because the whole point of his character is that he is a white (blond) male who has historically stood for everyone's rights--regardless of race, gender, orientation, social status, etc. Civil War was a perfect example. I didn't read AvX but it sounds like an aforementioned example of crappy writing and getting away from a character's actual values and beliefs.
Should Thor be a woman? Hell, no--his freaking name is Thor OdinSON for crying out loud...
The forced diversity by changing existing characters is very awkward and lazy. The United States of America started out as a nation of white people (please do not start the Indian/Native American argument--that is a totally different aside). Over the years it has grown into a nation of great diversity--more so than any other country in the world.
Comics follow a similar path--both DC and Marvel were lily-white in their inception but instead of growing into diversity by adding new minority characters, they just rewrite the existing ones--no matter their historic importance.
Now I understand that this is an awkward analogy but please stick with me: what comics do is to write about someone like George Washington and make him black instead of writing about Martin Luther King, Jr. (also like the retcon of the "first" Captain America being black--very weak) Yes, the world has changed but don't address that by changing the past--move into the future and create new characters that have a chance to grow into greatness. Or tinker with it by doing so on a smaller scale. One example that I don't have a problem with is Ms. Marvel--I love Carol Danvers (and the old costume--thigh-high black boots are always a welcome sight) but she took the mantle of Captain Marvel and moved on in her life. Then they could create a new Ms. Marvel and introduce a Muslim teenage girl. Did they change the character? Sort of--but Carol is still Carol and doing her thing so this was done in a way that made sense for both characters and was done less controversially.
Sam Wilson is great. But to me he will always be the Falcon. Captain America will always be Steve Rogers--not John Walker, not Bucky Barnes, not Sam Wilson. If they want to ditch Falcon, have Sam develop into something else--don't force him into it by having Steve become weak (which we all know will get retconned/reversed in the near future anyway).
C'mon, Marvel and DC--you pay these big-name guys pretty good money. Demand some creativity from them and cull back the number of stories they need to churn out each month. We'd get a tighter product that would be less inclined to go for goofy gimmicks.
An interesting question (that would highlight additional racism and excuses for defending it from some people) would be--what if iconic black characters were suddenly made white? Black Panther? Storm? Let's go into other media--Shaft? Many would say that the fundamental basis for those characters is that they are black--but is that any less racist? Something to consider when attacking people as being bigots because they don't want to see characters that they identify with or idolized changed on such a major scale...don't jump to conclusions.
For the record, I liked the Sam Jackson-ification of Nick Fury--Ultimates was cool and I thought the whole process was pretty funny.

And to whoever asked why no one likes Richard Rider? I remember him from my youth and he sucked back then--don't know what they've done with him lately but a lot of the old folk will probably always see him as a flaming bag of crap...sorry--not necessarily fair, but kind of how it is sometimes.
 

shaowebb

Get your guns on. Sheriff is back.
If Marvel really respected equality and wasn't trying to shoehorn it then they would respect characters enough to make them THEIR OWN HERO and not just Black Captain America or Girl Thor.

If you want to have a good Black hero then create one. If the one you got isn't big enough then give him a reason to be loved and adored by fans...write him a good conflict. Dont just rip off some other hero and expect to come off as anything but a wannabe trying to pull in a demographic. Problem is I just don't see Marvel's writing staff as creative enough because they mainly tell stories that are too afraid to ever create good villains to give any meaning to their heroes. They're just fans writing fan fiction with as many heroes fighting each other as they can get and their favorite villains all had to become good guys too. Now there are so few villains to go around the mainstay heroes fight each other. This is why so few new heroes are actually coming about and creating their own legacy...they can't write a villain story to give them a reason to be a hero and the old villains don't work anymore or are too synonymous with other heroes already to make them belong to the new guy. It'd be like having The Undertaker job to the local guy that gets thrown out as fodder on sunday shows at local venues. No one would believe the push or buy the character.

Can't write a villain? Then you aren't really trying to tell a story that goes anywhere...you're just trying to write a fan fiction starring your childhood hero winning and meeting your other heroes.

Not hard to write a Black or Female hero either...you just write them like everyone else. A person with power trying to do the best they can and dealing with the consequences for better or for worse while often making mistakes and being judged for these decisions. Now a days heroes never seem to wonder whether or not they are right about things or made the best decision.. Its always some dude saying "they got a plan" and then the coup happens on the enemy and a roflstomp ensues with frequent chase sequences. Thats not a story...thats an action scene with a plot device to initiate it.

Grumble grumble half ass writers at marvel grumble grumble
 
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HellblazerHawkman

Confused Thanagarian
Agreed. I actually have been slacking on my comics recently and I need to look up what happened since Peter got control again.

I have to say, every time life has gotten good for Peter, they pulled some sort of giant reset button, but this may have been the most organic and well executed retcon he's ever had.
Also yeah Doc put in work as Spidey, and I love just how differently he approached the job.
That midget chick who's name is escaping me at the moment was a really good character too.

I think the only parts of that entire series that I didn't like were "The Snoz" or whatever he called his teacher and that whole plagiarism thing, both of which felt shoehorned into the storyline just to give him a somewhat forced emotional conflict in the last few comics of the series.
Minor spoilers, Peter's life is kind of fucked because Black Cat is pissed at something Ock did to her and he's been trying to run damage control on everything. The finale to Superior was great
 

Somea2V

Thread Referee
People who interpret more accurate representations of our modern word as mere political correctness are really sad.
People who misinterpret pandering to political correctness for accurate representations of our modern world are really sad.

If these were "accurate representations", you wouldn't see a sudden cluster of drastic and arbitrary changes. You would see the gradual progression of new faces and identities that represent the wider population coming into their own within the comics and super teams. You would see... growth and change as these new characters are given the chance to take the mantles and opportunities that they rightfully deserve. But instead of that... you know, real characters who represent the changing of the times as new blood is added in (much like our school and work populations changed and diversified over the past several decades), we have blatant pandering. Blatant pandering largely in part, I would suspect, to the reports of white male superiority in the comic field, both within the stories and industry, that saw new reporting light in the past year.

But hey, I'm a white male. Clearly I'm a racist bigot who hates women and minorities. :DOGE
 

HellblazerHawkman

Confused Thanagarian
I'm ok with this, because Sam Wilson is a good pick for Cap's Shield. Having said that, they took one black superhero and gave him another costume. Why not make another hero? Spiderman's getting a new (character, not sure if hero or villain yet) who's a woman. Awesome! Iron Man is rumored to be getting the same treatment, so expect to see a young Muslim homosexual who took a dying Stark's armor to fight oppression like he saw in his country popping up tomorrow.

Here's a way to introduce a black character, without taking out Cap: young black kid grew up in a bad part of (New York, cause every Marvel hero has to be) and saw a lot of bad shit happen and no response from the people at top to handle it. Where a lot of his community just got pissed, he tried to do something and grew up to build a community center to help steer kids in the right direction. Some cartel (lead by Kingpin maybe?) wants to buy the property for 'reasons'. He knows who they are, tells them to fuck off. They come back and burn the place down with him in it one night. Once again, no response from police, and he's left to 'die'. In the fire, he discovers a power (maybe something involving stones, can harden skin, but a lot like Luke Cage, so I'd change it) and saves himself. Once again, he decides he needs to take matters into his own hands and uses his newfound powers to go after Kingpin. Gets in over his head, and gets saved by Cap and Falcon and they end up working together, them showing him how to be a hero and him highlighting a big problem in the city they all love.

Creative process, I've been doing this shit for months working on my own superhero story. Introduce a new hero and addresses a big issues in NYC people seem blissfully unaware of
 

The Great One

"I Always d1 Lif-" SHUT UP
it wouldnt hurt in this instance to actually create a new superhero. there isnt an overwhelming number of black heroes in comic books.
Ummm.....Africans and Whites are actually dominating the comic book. So If we were to get into race.......You can tell they're doing this for political correctness instead of genuine ethnic equality because http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_superheroes#Marvel_Comics That's a list of black superheroes in the marvel universe. Do you know how lucky you guys are?! I loved Darwin he was awesome, Captain Universe?! NICK FKING FURY?!

Where are the latinos? The Aulstralians? They're so stereotypical... Captain Aulstralia or some shit. AND A KANGAROO. WHAT

I'm Chinese and let me tell you...I've always wanted there to be a Chinese awesome superhero to look up to. Instead what do I got? The Mandrin stereotypical Chinese old man taking over the world with evil relics. Shang whatever. Kung fu guy. of course...Kung...fu... The only Chinese "superhero" I look up to is really fricken Daimian Wayne.

The only cool Asian superhero in my opinon is Amadeus cho. Wait he's Asian? Super power.... Super smarts....
 

Somea2V

Thread Referee
The only cool Asian superhero in my opinon is Amadeus cho. Wait he's Asian? Super power.... Super smarts....
While Damien Wayne counts and is pretty cool, look up August General in Iron and The Great Ten. Fantastic and interesting team of government-sanctioned, Chinese superheroes. If you follow the Arrow television series, Yao Fei and his daughter are interpretations of... I believe it's the Celestial Archer and The Most Perfect Physician.
 

HellblazerHawkman

Confused Thanagarian
Ummm.....Africans and Whites are actually dominating the comic book. So If we were to get into race.......You can tell they're doing this for political correctness instead of genuine ethnic equality because http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_superheroes#Marvel_Comics That's a list of black superheroes in the marvel universe. Do you know how lucky you guys are?! I loved Darwin he was awesome, Captain Universe?! NICK FKING FURY?!

Where are the latinos? The Aulstralians? They're so stereotypical... Captain Aulstralia or some shit. AND A KANGAROO. WHAT

I'm Chinese and let me tell you...I've always wanted there to be a Chinese awesome superhero to look up to. Instead what do I got? The Mandrin stereotypical Chinese old man taking over the world with evil relics. Shang whatever. Kung fu guy. of course...Kung...fu... The only Chinese "superhero" I look up to is really fricken Daimian Wayne.

The only cool Asian superhero in my opinon is Amadeus cho. Wait he's Asian? Super power.... Super smarts....
Asian, I can only think of Katana and the good Dr. Light. Chinese? Yeah......you have a point

And latinos have arguably the cooler Blue Beetle, what should they complain about :p?
 

The Great One

"I Always d1 Lif-" SHUT UP
Blacktain America confirmed.

So it's pretty much Obama wearing that suit now.
I don't know if this is a fact or not but is the president in the marvel universe black? I remember seeing the DC one had a president that looked like Obama but his face was in the shade.

I'm not sure I remember for marvel I know for a fact he was white during civil war cause of the cable deadpool stuff.but I remember reading something about charmeleon impersonating Obama and spider man quizzing him on basketball stuff