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Regarding the News with 16 Bit and Pig...

GGA Saucy Jack

The artist formerly known as ImNewbieSauce
I'm always hesitant to post in these threads because I don't want people to see the GGA in front of my name and just say "well he's 16 bits boy, so he's just blindly following, there is no substance here". All of the opinions I express are my own, not parroting 16 Bit.

First, I'd like to say I think Hippos post is very well written, and it's obvious that he has put a lot of thought into this and isn't just snap reacting to something. TYM needs more of that. Also, I would like to say that I'm glad this post is still open. I had some concerns when I saw it based on previous experience, that this thread would be closed. Thank you TYM for letting us discuss this.

Final Round 2013 was the first tournament I ever went to. Because of that, Final Round will always hold special meaning for me. When 2014 came, it was the tournament I was most excited for. My experience at 2014 however, was a different story. I'm not going to rehash the details, I laid them all out in Legions thread post Final Round. Summary for context: I was unhappy with the tournament.

Fast forward to now, months later, and the fallout ends up with two players being banned. Now I'm a reasonable man, and I understand that a TO is well within their right to disallow anyone they want from attending. I am concerned for how this will affect tournaments moving forward.

Revolver made a very good point. How often in this community does this scenario happen.

Player X gets top 8 at a major

Player Y says "doesn't matter, not all the comp was there."

This happens daily. Now this is essentially being forced on any tournament run by these TOs. The prestige of doing well at these tournaments is weakened.

I feel bad for the east coast players. As far as I can tell, their tournaments are cheapened because instead of taking criticism, the TOs chose to just swat away the detractors. That sounds like a business I personally do not want to spend my money with.

I think it's a shame for us as a community that we are deprived of two of our bigger personalities and talents in competition, over what basically amounts to grown men not being able to take criticism over a job they did.

Homelee also used a good analogy, and I think it's very accurate. If I'm unhappy with my service somewhere, I express that. I don't get banned from a restaurant for letting them now their service was sub par. And make no mistake, these tournaments are a business, and the players are the customers.

I respect that TOs have a right to allow or disallow players at their tournaments. But in this case, I vehemently disagree with it because of the reasons the ban was laid down. I personally can't spend any of my hard earned money with a business that operates this way. Without change, I will not attend any tournament affiliated with any of the parties in question.
 

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
Both Pig & bit tried talking to the TO's multiple times about this issue. On TYM, on Facebook, they've tried setting up meetings at tournaments as well. Pig even tried to set something up with Shinblanka as they both live in Atlanta. They were met with childish responses and no progress was achieved. Surprise. No meeting happened because BigE & Shinblanka are some grown ass men who couldn't be bothered with childishness. Oh, did I mentioned Shinblanka screaming about sueing and ruining 16bit's life over giving his opinion on Shin's tournaments publicly?

So many people commentating on this topic don't know the full story, so I can't fault you for thinking this is okay and acting like the TO's are in the right. But if any level headed person saw how unbelievable stubborn and childlike these "grown ass men" were acting would see why Pig & Bit are in the right in this situation.

If you think Pig & Bit are being Hollywood and acting entitled and what not, you're wrong. They actually have the balls to speak up about these tournaments and why they were bad. Remember that Legion(don't know his tag) guy who posted the final round thread? Why aren't any of you calling him Hollywood? Why aren't any of you saying he's acting entitled?
 
I just read a wall of text and still don't understand why (2) prominent players in our scene are banned from Final Round (and from the sounds of it any of the 4x NEC events)?

Is it really because they voiced their concerns/frustrations about their experiences at an event?

If that's the case, save their money and attend something else (preferably on the West Coast).
 

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
@Blind_Ducky

The problem is we have everyone here debating half the facts.

I don't think anyone is upset that 16 Bit and Pig raised the issues. That is all fine and dandy. I think the problem is how they did it...but thats just my speculation.

Most of us here don't know exactly what happened...so when you and your boys come in with more information than everyone else and no one to enlighten the masses, we are left scratching our heads.

You have the answers to all the blanks, but we are just staring at the blanks.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
I just read a wall of text and still don't understand why (2) prominent players in our scene are banned from Final Round (and from the sounds of it any of the 4x NEC events)?

Is it really because they voiced their concerns/frustrations about their experiences at an event?

If that's the case, save their money and attend something else (preferably on the West Coast).
Well were back to being divided YAY! Fuck the west coast!
;)
 

Mikemetroid

Who hired this guy, WTF?
This is what happens when ya make JRosa a top seed.

Do not do list:
Murder
Steal
Make Jrosa top 16 seed
Forget to feed cat


Lol. Anyway, KN did not have any say into banning these guys. In the countless PMs we stated what was wrong and how we are changing it.

FR was a fluke. Shit happens.
I dont want to hear that I'm not willing to work out issues (i ran MK9 alongside pig for crying out loud).

As of now though, our systems are patched, we run ahead of schedule, Im not going to do pool nights anymore(unless instructed).
 

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
@Blind_Ducky

The problem is we have everyone here debating half the facts.

I don't think anyone is upset that 16 Bit and Pig raised the issues. That is all fine and dandy. I think the problem is how they did it...but thats just my speculation.

Most of us here don't know exactly what happened...so when you and your boys come in with more information than everyone else and no one to enlighten the masses, we are left scratching our heads.

You have the answers to all the blanks, but we are just staring at the blanks.
I should be able to fill in those blanks soon. Stay tuned.
 
Sensationalist journalism or not, it doesn't change the fact that its none of our business. Nothing dredged up or discovered or even discussed in this thread is going to have any relevance to the actual discussion Pig / Bit / Big E / Whoever have to have to resolve (or not) resolve this. Its just going to rustle a bunch of jimmies about nothing. Its just people lining up to make an already shit situation shittier by picking sides.
I disagree. This isn't "between them". This is important news and a legitimate debate that regards FGC as a whole. Not to mention that the players already tried to talk to the TOs in question and the latter didn't want to hear anything from them.

I can't speak for Pig, because I don't know the full story of what he said exactly.

But I know that in 16 Bit's case, he was on the On Blast Show a few weeks ago saying he would consider coming back to those events if they were ran well and if he heard good things about them from other players who went in the future. Which sounded pretty reasonable to me. But the other guy immediately resorted to name calling for whatever reason.

Now, by banning them and threatening the players with a lawsuit, that tells me they have zero intention to change, listen to constructive criticism or improve anything. They plan to continue doing things how they want and just ignore/ban players who don't have a good experience and complain about it.

Honestly to me it seems like they just really really hate 16 Bit and Pig for whatever personal reason. Because otherwise they would be banning and threatening a lot more players.
 
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trustinme

xbl-OBS trustinme
If pig and 16bit have a problem with big e or vice versa then I'm sure they can sort it out between themselves.
I suggest we all keep our pieholes shut and enjoy ourselves.
 

Jimmypotato

Mid Tier
The lesson to learn here could be,

Don't have knee jerk reactions to things, I remember some of the things posted after those tournys happened, and nice things were not said, constructive feed back was not given,

I mean, we all remember the Fire Paulo thread

The same things just keep happening, just over different things.
 

4x4lo8o

Noob
Wasn't Pig the only reason we had a working stream at NEC last year? and he's banned this year?


I'm a little confused why people are saying "it's none of our business." Pig and 16 Bit are top players and prominent personalities in our community. Anybody competing or even just planning on watching is affected.

I don't like this. Last year this tournament saved our game(people say NEC literally got us into Evo a second time) and this year a quarter of our Evo top 8 is banned? There's gotta be a better resolution to this
 
And whats all this shit about being covered up? Are you guys fucking retarded? Threads of blatent bashing of KN and Big E Events since friggin last years NEC and TFC. Whats being covered up?
Mr Aqua, well....remember the NEC pot bonus thread? When storms came in and said he was gonna "clean up" the thread? All he did was delete pig's and 16bit's posts...that's all. He let everyone else's comments stay....including Fran's telling pig if he's gonna bitch about every little thing in a tourney and your's saying how your events were ran better than evo and mlg combine.....i mean.......that looked pretty bad on the Mod's part just sayin.....
 

trustinme

xbl-OBS trustinme
@trustinme
Have you read any of the comments in this thread? They have tried to solve this privately. I think it's time for the community to get involved imo
yes I've read the entire hilarious thread and all I see is tit for tat back and fourth bullshit.
This thread isn't solving anything.
 

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
yes I've read the entire hilarious thread and all I see is tit for tat back and fourth bullshit.
This thread isn't solving anything.
Nothing else they've tried has solved anything either. They've been trying for months to get this resolved and nothing has happened. This thread was a last resort.
 
Yo I am going to bring up some real talk because these players getting banned for criticizing an event and etc. stuff" isn't sitting right with me and I do not give a damn what others think, this is my take on it from a past tournament event where me and others didn't get paid our "prize money"
Basically when it was 2012, revelations came around so the west coast guys rounded up the troops and we went there.
Now on a side note, multiple ppl have criticized the TO of that event and how the tournament was ran, the TO not paying out top 8 placers and false advertising essentially. Unfortunately me and the others who went to that event didn't bother looking that stuff because all we saw was dem big cash pots.
Anyways, the tournament ends and me and DJT place top 2 and expect that $3500 we rightfully earned and worked towards (remind u our dad also took time off work to spend money for gas, our motel 6, food, and etc. to get us out there).
None of the top 8 who went there got paid anything and it is almost 2015 right now (me djt pboard dab chef xblades tyrant and forgot the other person :p).

My point is I would want someone to tell me about a tournament before I was going to actually going to go there and have my parents spend their money to get us out there. Had me and DJT known about revelations, we never would have went there.
So I am happy 16 Bit and Pig expressed their opinions/experiences, PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW BEFORE THEY SPEND MONEY TO TRAVEL AND WHATEVER ELSE TO GET TO THAT TOURNAMENT.
That is all #YEEEAAAPPP and I am not mad y'all, just sharing an example where someone expressing their opinion on an event can save MULTIPLE ppl from spending their money to go there.