R-E-S-P-E-C-T: The Kitana Match-up Thread

[Somberness]

So when is it the right time to use an iSB/EX iSB? I also noticed that EX SB doesn't have armor, which kinda sucks. It can't go through projectiles so what's the point of using it? other than doing it high in the air to get away from corners, but thats about it.

Square Wave does have armor (so it will go through everything but an x-ray), but only during most of its horizontal movement. There is none at the beginning where you rise or the end where you slow down.

 

[Graphf]

I am new here. Stopped playing MK seriously after mk2. I've mainly been an SF player my whole life but MK9 is pretty dope. ok, enough about my background. After some research into the various MK sites I see that TYM is the best of them all. here is my question.

I am decent at this game but I have a question about the Smoke matchup. One thing that I have a hard time punishing consistently is his air teleport. When ever I jumped he would jump to and then teleport and hit me if I did anything. So I started empty jumping to change things up. This worked insofar as I wasn't getting hit by the teleport any longer but it would leave me in a pretty bad position with Smoke above me in such a position that even a basic uppercut would miss.

A few times I would just jump again right after my empty jump and then ASB and hit him but he caught on to this pretty quick. My question is, is there a more reliable punish for Smokes who abuse his air teleport and end up above you like that?

Me and this guy must have played 12-15 matches and I won a few but it was difficult getting around what I have described above. It created so much extra work for me that landing my big combos wasn't enough to win the matches in most cases.

Any help would be appreicated.

 

[Pistol]

I am decent at this game but I have a question about the Smoke matchup. One thing that I have a hard time punishing consistently is his air teleport. When ever I jumped he would jump to and then teleport and hit me if I did anything. So I started empty jumping to change things up. This worked insofar as I wasn't getting hit by the teleport any longer but it would leave me in a pretty bad position with Smoke above me in such a position that even a basic uppercut would miss.

A few times I would just jump again right after my empty jump and then ASB and hit him but he caught on to this pretty quick. My question is, is there a more reliable punish for Smokes who abuse his air teleport and end up above you like that?

Stop jumping?

Empty jump while buffering an enhanced fan lift? I'm trying to wrap my mind around this situation. Sounds like you're consistently jumping to try to get in. That's a no no.

 

[Konqrr]

Stop jumping?

Empty jump while buffering an enhanced fan lift? I'm trying to wrap my mind around this situation. Sounds like you're consistently jumping to try to get in. That's a no no.

I think he means that his air fans are being punished by teleport.

You should stay at 1/2 screen distance or so. That way, Smoke has a much harder time reacting to iAF or jump ins. But like Pistol said, you shouldn't be jumping around very much in this matchup because fans are almost a non-factor. Read my Smoke guide in this thread on how to fight hiim.

 

[Graphf]

I think he means that his air fans are being punished by teleport.

You should stay at 1/2 screen distance or so. That way, Smoke has a much harder time reacting to iAF or jump ins. But like Pistol said, you shouldn't be jumping around very much in this matchup because fans are almost a non-factor. Read my Smoke guide in this thread on how to fight hiim.

Ya, it was when I was attempting air fans. I actually don't jump that much it's just that whenever I did he did too.

I have read over what you wrote and that helped a lot. I suppose I'll just try some stuff out in training mode. thanks for the tips... I am so used to throwing fans out against so much of the cast that I'll just have to change my strat for this match up.

 

[lobo]

having a hard time in the kano matchup. any tips on getting in on him that i may be missing? what do you guys think of the pairing? with no armor and no teleport, and a projectile game that seems to flat out lose to his...man...i feel like i have to work sooooooooooooooooooooooo hard to get in. once i'm there i'm comfortable but damn.

help me plz.

 

[Meshell]

Tips for Ermac....

 

[lobo]

Tips for Ermac....

ermac can't really outzone kitana like some characters can. i find that spamming iAF works well against him. dash>block in until you are just about jump range and try and bait his force push or force lift, and punish either of them with a full f21 BnB combo. remember that his TP on block gives you a full combo as well. i feel like she has the ermac matchup quite handily. it seems like she beats him in the zoning game, and when he gets in he tends to push her back out on block into a mid-range shere she is very comfortable.

 

[xTHUGx]

So I tried playing against an insanely good Nightwolf that kept dash-blocking rushing me with mix-ups. I tried to do iAF's and he kept reflecting them everytime..like he knew they were coming. Even up close he still reacted to the iAF, either that or he got extremely lucky. I also tried doing the double iAF so the second fan will dissapear but it wasn't working? Am I doing it too slow? Maybe patched?

 

[16 Bit]

So I tried playing against an insanely good Nightwolf that kept dash-blocking rushing me with mix-ups. I tried to do iAF's and he kept reflecting them everytime..like he knew they were coming. Even up close he still reacted to the iAF, either that or he got extremely lucky. I also tried doing the double iAF so the second fan will dissapear but it wasn't working? Am I doing it too slow? Maybe patched?

He's not reacting, he's doing reflect when he sees you twitch. Start throwing out instant square boosts. Double IAF trick only works from far.


I get killed trying to out zone Ermac. You have to stay full screen and his fireball is too fast. I can't see how that'd work. f+2,1 punishes blocked push? That can't be right.

 

[Konqrr]

having a hard time in the kano matchup. any tips on getting in on him that i may be missing? what do you guys think of the pairing? with no armor and no teleport, and a projectile game that seems to flat out lose to his...man...i feel like i have to work sooooooooooooooooooooooo hard to get in. once i'm there i'm comfortable but damn.

help me plz.

Kano vs Kitana is like 7-3 in Kano's favor right now... she loses the projectile war and when she gets in, she has to respect upball. If you want to stop the momentum of knife spam, jump over a knife and do an EX Air Fan...you will trade with the next knife, but Kano will be in such big hitstun that you can advance on him. Try to stay around 1/2 screen so you can punish knife throws with jump punch combos and whiffed upballs if they are stupid lol

dash>block in until you are just about jump range and try and bait his force push or force lift, and punish either of them with a full f21 BnB combo.

After blocking the force push (bf1) at around sweep distance, she cannot punish with her f21. She can only get a dash in 21 combo. Blocking the force lift gives her whatever she wants though.

So I tried playing against an insanely good Nightwolf that kept dash-blocking rushing me with mix-ups. I tried to do iAF's and he kept reflecting them everytime..like he knew they were coming. Even up close he still reacted to the iAF, either that or he got extremely lucky. I also tried doing the double iAF so the second fan will dissapear but it wasn't working? Am I doing it too slow? Maybe patched?

Don't fight him from full screen...but beware of shoulder tackles. If you are closer, he can't react as well to iAF's. Punish lightning attempts that you can jump out of with an EX Air Fan on the way down into f21 BnB. If he has meter to break, just do a normal fan and dash in.

If you knock him down and you are close, dash in and do a d3 on his wakeup. If he does anything but an invincible wakeup EX Shoulder Tackle, you will hit him out of it. If he does the EX Shoulder Tackle, your d3 will whiff but you recover in time to block and he was forced to use meter to get you off of him.

Kitana doesn't have much to get out of lightning after being hit by a shoulder tackle while grounded (IIRC, you can do quick recovery from being hit out of the air with a tackle). So look to see if he is trying to do the lightning and do a wakeup square boost. The recovery is so long on the lightning that you will be safe and next to him.

Nightwolf has one of the best uppercuts in the game, don't jump at him if he is free to move around.

This is a hard battle for sure.

 

[xTHUGx]

Don't fight him from full screen...but beware of shoulder tackles. If you are closer, he can't react as well to iAF's. Punish lightning attempts that you can jump out of with an EX Air Fan on the way down into f21 BnB. If he has meter to break, just do a normal fan and dash in.

If you knock him down and you are close, dash in and do a d3 on his wakeup. If he does anything but an invincible wakeup EX Shoulder Tackle, you will hit him out of it. If he does the EX Shoulder Tackle, your d3 will whiff but you recover in time to block and he was forced to use meter to get you off of him.

Kitana doesn't have much to get out of lightning after being hit by a shoulder tackle while grounded (IIRC, you can do quick recovery from being hit out of the air with a tackle). So look to see if he is trying to do the lightning and do a wakeup square boost. The recovery is so long on the lightning that you will be safe and next to him.

Nightwolf has one of the best uppercuts in the game, don't jump at him if he is free to move around.

This is a hard battle for sure.

I never thought of doing an EX iAF then cancel out of the second one to do f21, nice strategy. Will give it a try next time. But then again this would only work if the opponent got caught while in the ground. Maybe if I catch them in air I can just switch it up to Kitana's unbreakable fan combo.

 

[DrDogg]

Noob question... I can get past his barrage of projectiles, but once I'm in close, it seems like d+1 is the only thing that works given how much horizontal range the up shadow has. Jump punch is basically not an option, and even with d+1 hits, I can't get close enough to really start my offense. Any tips to avoid some of the frustrations of this match?

 

[Konqrr]

Noob question... I can get past his barrage of projectiles, but once I'm in close, it seems like d+1 is the only thing that works given how much horizontal range the up shadow has. Jump punch is basically not an option, and even with d+1 hits, I can't get close enough to really start my offense. Any tips to avoid some of the frustrations of this match?

If you are in range and you KNOW an up shadow is coming, you can punish with f21. A safer option is to do a simple ground fan when you see an up shadow come out when you are just out of range, but even then you got to be fast.

What the Noob matchup really comes down to is making a read on his shadow tackle. Even from 3/4 screen, you can jump over it and get an EX air fan on the way down and hit him. From there you dash cancel out of the second fan and get a free f21 BnB for 45%. This matchup isn't as bad for Kitana as people think it is.

 

[Finaeous]

If you are in range and you KNOW an up shadow is coming, you can punish with f21. A safer option is to do a simple ground fan when you see an up shadow come out when you are just out of range, but even then you got to be fast.

If you're just within jump attack range is it a good idea to do a not-quite-instant air fan? That way the Noob player might see the jump start and throw out the up-shadow to AA and will eat the fan instead. Maybe an EX air fan and then dash cancel out of it to start a combo? Or does the up-shadow have enough horizontal range that it would hit Kitana out of it if you throw the air fan just inside of jump attack range?

 

[Konqrr]

If you're just within jump attack range is it a good idea to do a not-quite-instant air fan? That way the Noob player might see the jump start and throw out the up-shadow to AA and will eat the fan instead. Maybe an EX air fan and then dash cancel out of it to start a combo? Or does the up-shadow have enough horizontal range that it would hit Kitana out of it if you throw the air fan just inside of jump attack range?

He wouldn't eat the fan. If you were at jump distance and jumped at him, in order to get the fan to hit you would have to wait until you were low enough to do so and the up shadow would hit you. If you jumped at him and ended up at jump distance, the up shadow would miss, but it's not a great tactic to just jump like that because he could be waiting to see what you are going to do and simply shadow tackle your jump in from that range. Noob can also, on reaction, teleport all of your fan throws, so don't just throw them out wildly.

 

[xTHUGx]

Kabal matchup tips? Anyone?

 

[Konqrr]

Kabal matchup tips? Anyone?

I've only fought against him twice... Online Tony and Michaelangelo @ ReveLAtions... and you see how that went.

I would need more experience myself, but from what I gathered is you have to find your opportunities to put fans on the screen. If you are just avoiding his projectiles, he is controlling space and will win. It's easy so see if he is doing an iAFB or a ground saw and you can react accordingly. Once you get locked down with the f32~spin cancel, you can now do something about it like d1/3, jump up/back. But if he lets the spin go, you will get hit. You want to get in on your own terms, not his.

It's not much, but I hope this helps.

 

[kitana29]

What does it mean when a move can be hitchecked?

 

[Konqrr]

What does it mean when a move can be hitchecked?

Whether or not you can see it is hitting or being blocked for the purpose of doing a special move off of it to continue the combo.

 

[vegeta]

I figured out the hard way that kano gives her trouble. Though the other person that I'm struggling to fight against is raiden. He does that B+3,1,2 string where I have to guess and when I do see an opportunity to attempt to attack he teleports behind me and does the same string, occasionally ending it with the high grap but again it's a guessing game. I can't zone him (got hit with superman too much) or he teleports right behind me anyway when I attempt to chuck iAF's. I assume with her I'd just have to wait him out and punish a teleport I see coming (worked so far, used it in the old games...basically just uppercutting him) but the problem is still if he baits me into it or just doesn't do it. I'm at a loss.

 

[DrDogg]

If you are in range and you KNOW an up shadow is coming, you can punish with f21. A safer option is to do a simple ground fan when you see an up shadow come out when you are just out of range, but even then you got to be fast.

What the Noob matchup really comes down to is making a read on his shadow tackle. Even from 3/4 screen, you can jump over it and get an EX air fan on the way down and hit him. From there you dash cancel out of the second fan and get a free f21 BnB for 45%. This matchup isn't as bad for Kitana as people think it is.

Up shadow recovers extremely fast. How are you punishing with f+2,1?

I figured out the hard way that kano gives her trouble. Though the other person that I'm struggling to fight against is raiden. He does that B+3,1,2 string where I have to guess and when I do see an opportunity to attempt to attack he teleports behind me and does the same string, occasionally ending it with the high grap but again it's a guessing game. I can't zone him (got hit with superman too much) or he teleports right behind me anyway when I attempt to chuck iAF's. I assume with her I'd just have to wait him out and punish a teleport I see coming (worked so far, used it in the old games...basically just uppercutting him) but the problem is still if he baits me into it or just doesn't do it. I'm at a loss.

You can interrupt b+3,1,2. Just use d+1 between the 3 and the 1. You can also interrupt 3,3,4 by using a d+1 between the second 3 and the 4. Alternatively, you can use Kitana's x-ray to interrupt.

 

[ChaseRLewis]

Up shadow recovers extremely fast. How are you punishing with f+2,1?
.

Lots of Noob's do up shadow even when you are to far away to block as it has such a great hitbox and such quick recovery it's a low risk option. If you don't block it I think he's saying you can come in with f21 to punish on whiff if your twitching for it or alternatively he's saying you can throw it out and hit him if you think he's just going for it around the same time. Either way he's not saying you can punish it with f21.

Friend of mine is coming to town tomorrow who plays cage and scorpion. No local cage player so anyone have any tips? My current game plan is fan like my life depends on it and do my best to not get blown away by invincible flying kick.

 

[Konqrr]

Friend of mine is coming to town tomorrow who plays cage and scorpion. No local cage player so anyone have any tips? My current game plan is fan like my life depends on it and do my best to not get blown away by invincible flying kick.

Keep him out! Use d1 after blocking his non-advantage strings like 21, but make sure he isn't going for 21f2. Beware of EX Shadow Kick as it will blow through your fans and hit you. Bait it and punish with f21 BnB.

Up shadow recovers extremely fast. How are you punishing with f+2,1?

You have to be watching for it and punish VERY quickly. Like ChaseRLewis said, you have to be "twitching" for it.

 

[xTHUGx]

Okay some Sindel player was spamming against me, it really ticked me off to the point that I just left the game. It was fucking ridiculous. I know it's my fault for not knowing what to do against it, but the fact that this kid had some pretty horrible stats and a lil mouth....I couldn't deal with it. So basically all he was doing is spamming low fireballs, jump fireball, standing fireball randomly...in no pattern [FULL SCREEN]. When I would try to go in he would do Sindel's kicks, i don't really know the string but I think is a string that hits high then low or low then high. I had no time to do iAF because he would interrupt me everytime with a little fireball...However I did manage to land my x-ray but thats about it. Tips anyone?