Opinions on which characters are not top 8 viable in the current meta-game?

[Spyridon]

My first post on the TYM forums

Since Injustice came out, one of the most impressive aspects for me has been how many characters have made it to the top 8 of tournaments. I made a list early on and so far I have every character on the list aside from Flash and Bane (not including DLC characters yet). The tournament winners have been extremely varied as well.

I can't speak for every ones play styles, but I typically like to play "who I want" (which is usually a lower tier character that's not picked much) and try to learn some fun tricks and new tech on them, but I also have some experience with a small variety of characters that are viable for competitive play.

The game is patched frequently though, so it's kind of hard to keep up with the current status of the characters. Especially since the cast is fairly large so I doubt anyone but the very top players have a good handle on all the characters.

So I thought, rather than a "tier list" (which only makes people flock towards a small handful of characters), it might be a bit more constructive to make a list of which characters are "not" top 8 tournament viable in the current meta-game? That way people who like to play competitive can be comfortable that their characters are at least viable for tournament play, and at the same time players who enjoy to play the characters that are generally thought of as weaker and/or less developed could have a list of characters to develop. And maybe NRS could get an idea of what characters need the most help in upcoming patches (hopefully!).

It would be great if some top/pro players could give their thoughts on the subject!

If enough people enjoy this topic I could update it each patch.

Preliminary List-
Lobo
Bane
Joker
Lex Luthor

Recently Removed From List-
Doomsday due to results by Reggie at the Northwest Majors!
Harley Quinn from recent performances at CEO!


I encourage players to try to have some fun on these characters and take them to the lab. If you discover some new tech for them share it on the character forums, but link the info here as well for some constructive discussion on how it may improve their viability

 

[Btt Ownge Mble]

Lex: Huge hitbox, slow attacks, moves that don't really "fit", I don't know how else to describe it. The only thing he's got is a 6f charge move that is hugely punishable on block.

Cyborg: He's got air fireballs and a cable swing, I can't see what he can do well.... tho I could be very wrong about this as he's probably if I were to guess, the least played character in the game. And that's including when he had a block infinite

Joker: In a game of game breaking traits, he has the most useless one in the game. He's slow and has trouble getting in vs strong zoners. His mixups are easy to read once you get used to them. His chattering teeth are admittedly awesome for creating some setups such as overhead+low at the same time... but I don't see that he has the tools.

Harley: Seems really fun to play, but doesn't have alot of tools. Might be wrong about this one, but I haven't seen any good Harley play in a tournament stream yet.

Those are my picks, feel free to blow me up if warrented.

 

[FrothyOmen]

Doomsday needs buffs

 

[Enenra]

Scorpion is pretty bad, his tele needs a buff. TYM said so

 

[PND i2 Gaug3]

Doomsday needs buffs

what this talking dog said is tru

This message is brought to you by The Hateocracy

 

[DesuBlade]

It's far too soon to make these assumptions other than the fact that Scorpion is too low tier right now. He needs buffs.

 

[shaowebb]

This is actually a pretty respectable way of handling things. Instead of tier lists we just name a few characters we just feel aren't top 8 tourney characters in the game right now.

I like it. Leaves a lot of flexibility since essentially you can say "not top tourney" without having to label them good, bad or whatever.


Folks I'd say are not TOP 8

• LOBO- he has a lot of issues staying in. He's just too slow. He may just need some armor before he'll blow up into a real choice at tourney.
• BANE-he's close to being a major threat IMO, but he lacks any full screen options that aren't completely obvious. Scoutable, but respectable. Not top 8 though.
• LEX- he's other owning you or he's not. He revolves entirely on having enough moments to setup his gimmicky stuff to help setup his pressure/mixups. Otherwise, he's too big and scoutable not to wear out. A Strong fundamental footsie player would make him look amazing, but he just doesn't add up to being safe enough not to blow up or trade with thus shutting down his gameplan.

 

[DownfouralitY]

Black Adam is trash.



Just kidding, I'd say Lex, Bane and the Joker are DEFINITELY not top 8 material.

 

[rev0lver]

A Strong fundamental footsie player would make him look amazing, but he just doesn't add up to being safe enough not to blow up or trade with thus shutting down his gameplan.

dats why more kitana players need to use him

hes good but definitely not top 8. im feeling him right now but the fact that a few chars beat him pretty badly puts him down.

 

[MashPotatoTower]

Sniff a fart you fart sniffers!
A wise man would take all of this with a great deal of salt

 

[Impractical Joker]

Lex: Huge hitbox, slow attacks, moves that don't really "fit", I don't know how else to describe it. The only thing he's got is a 6f charge move that is hugely punishable on block.

Cyborg: He's got air fireballs and a cable swing, I can't see what he can do well.... tho I could be very wrong about this as he's probably if I were to guess, the least played character in the game. And that's including when he had a block infinite

Joker: In a game of game breaking traits, he has the most useless one in the game. He's slow and has trouble getting in vs strong zoners. His mixups are easy to read once you get used to them. His chattering teeth are admittedly awesome for creating some setups such as overhead+low at the same time... but I don't see that he has the tools.

Harley: Seems really fun to play, but doesn't have alot of tools. Might be wrong about this one, but I haven't seen any good Harley play in a tournament stream yet.

Those are my picks, feel free to blow me up if warrented.

Completely disagree with Cyborg. Iafb's still zone out most of the cast on their own but coupled with his missiles he is a potentially really strong character. He also has great mobility with grappling hooks and IMO one of the best dashes in the game. He has the tools to beat top characters but takes so much work to become great with that many are turned off. As the game progresses I could see him getting top 8, I'm pretty sure Relaxedstate and Jailhouse have pretty nasty Cyborgs.

 

[shaowebb]

dats why more kitana players need to use him

hes good but definitely not top 8. im feeling him right now but the fact that a few chars beat him pretty badly puts him down.

I could see this. Honestly, I'd like to see Justin Wong or Chris G use him at tourney just once. Those two have some of the best footsie fundamentals of any players I've ever seen and seeing how they work a Lex Luthor would be really entertaining and educational.

 

[rev0lver]

I could see this. Honestly, I'd like to see Justin Wong or Chris G use him at tourney just once. Those two have some of the best footsie fundamentals of any players I've ever seen and seeing how they work a Lex Luthor would be really entertaining and educational.

Or you could just watch me

 

[shaowebb]

Or you could just watch me

LOL! And that is the equivalent of me friendzoning your Lex while booty hunting the popular folks.

Anyhow I'd also like to add Harley to that list of "not top 8". She's good at irritating and has some interesting setups, but she just seems like she gets punished or beat out at what she does so often that I can't really believe in her as top 8 material. She's good, but she's not amazing.

 

[rev0lver]

LOL! And that is the equivalent of me friendzoning your Lex while booty hunting the popular folks

BRO TOP 8 AT WINTER BRAWL GET AT ME

WHERE WAS CHRIS G

oh yeah prob winning marvel or something

 

[shaowebb]

BRO TOP 8 AT WINTER BRAWL GET AT ME

WHERE WAS CHRIS G

oh yeah prob winning marvel or something

LOL. I know you was top 8 man. Just saying those two got folks chasing them across every game at gamestop you can play on a stick is all. Plus G is playing Green Arrow and you know that makes me happy. Your still our pinup though <3

 

[Spyridon]

This is actually a pretty respectable way of handling things. Instead of tier lists we just name a few characters we just feel aren't top 8 tourney characters in the game right now.

I like it. Leaves a lot of flexibility since essentially you can say "not top tourney" without having to label them good, bad or whatever.

That's exactly what I thought. I think it will be a lot more accommodating to the player base, and maybe actually help the development of the game. Also, I know there will be some debating obviously, but this should be nowhere as near as debated or controversial as tier lists. I'm hoping it can turn out to be respectable!

Oh, and another positive thing about this in comparison to tier lists, is it's not 100% opinionated, you can prove this list wrong with your own tournament results!!

I'm happy to see others are behind the idea!



So it seems most people are in agreement with Lobo, Harley, Bane, Joker. I updated the OP to reflect this as a preliminary list.

Some mention of Doomsday and Lex, but at least Lex seems somewhat debated. I know Doomsday dropped a bit but I'm not sure if he dropped this much. So I'll hold off on these two until I hear more.

I too disagree with Cyborg being placed on here, I've read good things about him from top players on this site.

Sniff a fart you fart sniffers!

A wise man would take all of this with a great deal of salt

Of course it's (mostly) opinion at the moment, but that's why it's intended to be focused on the current meta-game. As the tournament results keep rolling in, this list can become more and more accurate! And as patches drop and characters move, we can keep editing it. And if you disagree, think of it as a challenge and prove it wrong in the next tournament!

That's one of the coolest parts of this list in my opinion. You can challenge yourself to develop tech for lower tier characters and make them viable for tournament play! Unlike tier lists, this list can actually be healthy for the game.

 

[The Gabriel]

Ares - worst dash in the game, slow walk speed, no range normals, slowest projectiles with most recovery, no anti-airs, horrible wake-up options, low-damage combos from practical starters, quasi-useless teleport, trait easily stuffed/nullified

 

[Smarrgasm]

Ares - worst dash in the game, slow walk speed, no range normals, slowest projectiles with most recovery, no anti-airs, horrible wake-up options, low-damage combos from practical starters, quasi-useless teleport, trait easily stuffed/nullified

Ares just made top 8 at a major *facepalm*

 

[Zyphox]

Ares - worst dash in the game, slow walk speed, no range normals, slowest projectiles with most recovery, no anti-airs, horrible wake-up options, low-damage combos from practical starters, quasi-useless teleport, trait easily stuffed/nullified

damn and he still got top 8 at the last major?

 

[Spyridon]

Ares - worst dash in the game, slow walk speed, no range normals, slowest projectiles with most recovery, no anti-airs, horrible wake-up options, low-damage combos from practical starters, quasi-useless teleport, trait easily stuffed/nullified

Hmm, I'm a little surprised to see him up here. If anything he seems to have been becoming a bit more common in tournament play since his buff. I definitely don't think he's near the top atm, but I'm not so sure he's not viable for tournament play, I've seen him quite a bit.

Would like to hear other thoughts on him as well though!

(Edit: Some people already responded...)

 

[The Gabriel]

Hmm, I'm a little surprised to see him up here. If anything he seems to have been becoming a bit more common in tournament play since his buff. I definitely don't think he's near the top atm, but I'm not so sure he's not viable for tournament play, I've seen him quite a bit.

Would like to hear other thoughts on him as well though!

(Edit: Some people already responded...)

He didn't receive a buff. Not a relevant one anyway.

AlucarD is a great fighting game player and the Ares match-up isn't as well known as other more heavily-used characters. Just because a character made top 8 once at one regional, doesn't make that character automatically top 8. Obviously.

Edit: Sorry it's late, just read the original post more closely...assumed it was referring to the 8 best characters in the game, not the possibility a character could get top 8 at a tournament. ANY character can make top 8 at a tournament, so I don't see the point of this thread.

 

[Juggs]

Ares is good and definitely top 8 viable, as has already been proven. Once his gimmicks get figured out you'll see him a lot less though.

 

[Spyridon]

Edit: Sorry it's late, just read the original post more closely...assumed it was referring to the 8 best characters in the game, not the possibility a character could get top 8 at a tournament. ANY character can make top 8 at a tournament, so I don't see the point of this thread.

A couple characters have not yet as I mentioned already, and the list of characters that are not tournament viable typically grows as games develop over time.

Injustice is doing very well in this department so far though, but time will tell if it lasts.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

Lex is not viable imo. He is sort of solid, but solid does not cut it in this game. I knew as soon as I saw that he had a dash that he was going to have problems. Because his shit is slooooooow he needs to get knock downs to set it up against most characters. His 50/50 mixups are also really generic. It's really disappointing