no more useless moves pls

[DreadKnight1]

But then they aren't just swag strings anymore, especially since they would actually be used by people and won't be rare sight

Although high damage and cool looking combo ender on a setup character would be pretty swag. People will rarely go for it (only to finish a round) and thus it won't entirely lose its novelty.

thats not nessesily true, lexs b2u3d3 is full of swag but still gets used a tonne.

 

[RYX]

@trufenix I think I came off a lot ruder than I wanted to

here's my line of thinking: why not think just about the move, but how it can relate it other moves? Like, "wouldn't if be cool if this guy had move X that did Y"

and even if it's just there to look neat I think you can still tweak it to be functional in some form. it's not like "NRS you're so dumb why aren't you doing this" but "it makes me sad that I have really nice looking moves that I can't seem to do anything with"

 

[Barrogh]

thats not nessesily true, lexs b2u3d3 is full of swag but still gets used a tonne.

I think that's a good example, even wanted to mention it, but since I'm not very familiar with Lex I just didn't want to say something goofy in the process.
That's the thing: it's not a to-go string, but is used for max damage combos and combos that use mine setups to extend them. Not overused, flashy looking, associated with big numbers, big setups, lot of swag. So yeah, good call, thanks for bringing that up.

 

[Peckapowa]

What the fuck happened to your grammar/spelling? And by that, I mean it's actually good!

OK, I'm just being a dick but it caught me off guard, lol.

I rarely put in the effort on tym to use those skills... If i wanted to i could focus and write very cleanly, I am very good at writing papers.

 

[trufenix]

@RYX well my point is less about woe is nrs how could you insult my girlfriend and more how early can you honestly definitively say a move is useless and what can be done about it.

Certainly in hindsight you can say baraka u4 wtf mate? But Did you know that day one? Maybe it was godlike in qa.

Like bounce dash cancels in injustice. I'm sure at one point they were the Shit. In the end? Not so much, but do you chuck them all together or roll the dice that someone somewhere is gonna make it work? It sure seems like it ought to be useful.

Or, better example for you. Day one bane. How useless was most of his movelist? Well a couple tweaks later now he's like 80% beast mode. Definitely top ten. Do we still go back to the drawing board on the three strings no one will ever use and risk breaking him or just patch out f2,d,3 entirely cause it's quote useless?

 

[RYX]

@RYX well my point is less about woe is nrs how could you insult my girlfriend and more how early can you honestly definitively say a move is useless and what can be done about it.

Certainly in hindsight you can say baraka u4 wtf mate? But Did you know that day one? Maybe it was godlike in qa.

Like bounce dash cancels in injustice. I'm sure at one point they were the Shit. In the end? Not so much, but do you chuck them all together or roll the dice that someone somewhere is gonna make it work? It sure seems like it ought to be useful.

Or, better example for you. Day one bane. How useless was most of his movelist? Well a couple tweaks later now he's like 80% beast mode. Definitely top ten. Do we still go back to the drawing board on the three strings no one will ever use and risk breaking him or just patch out f2,d,3 entirely cause it's quote useless?

day one Bane's strings weren't any different. It was his Venom and Dash that changed and both made him incredibly good. Maybe even too good, who knows.

I do appreciate the analogy, though. Makes it clearer what you mean.

 

[trufenix]

I do appreciate the analogy, though. Makes it clearer what you mean.

I'm actually asking though. If bane had been "fixed" pre-release, would you want them to go back and also give him a bunch of useful strings too? Or who cares because he already has a satisfying competitive meta to compliment his "useless" casual only moves?

 

[MisguidedAngel]

If i wanted to i could focus and write very cleanly, I am very good at writing papers.

COMMA SPLICE

 

[Pterodactyl]

I just hope they're even more on the ball with these patches to make the useless moves, if any, viable in some way when they become discovered for sure.

The biggest problem NRS has is that they've so far made every game 75% different from the last, so they can't really fine tune and perfect specific characters, systems, or mechanics since they re-do or change them in their games.

That said I definitely wouldn't have wanted them to build off of MK9 or even Injustice, what they have now looks like it could be a good start though.

The Tekken series and the SF series(in terms of interations, like SF4, SSF4, USF4) are prime example of this, you add new things with each game but the characters and systems stay the same(at least for a while) for the most parts with only improvements or more fine tuning to make them balanced.

 

[Wigy]

Uhh, wtf are you talking about? 2 3+4 is -24 and why do that when 2 F3 1+2 does more damage and leaves you at +8?

I'm almost certain i've seen countless videos about when it OTG's leaving you at + and i've used it and it seems to work, maybe my info was outdated or the frame data is?

 

[DreadKnight1]

I think that's a good example, even wanted to mention it, but since I'm not very familiar with Lex I just didn't want to say something goofy in the process.
That's the thing: it's not a to-go string, but is used for max damage combos and combos that use mine setups to extend them. Not overused, flashy looking, associated with big numbers, big setups, lot of swag. So yeah, good call, thanks for bringing that up.

As a lex main I can tell you it is. I get up to 63% off of the 50/50 after b2 mine as a combo ender and as a matter of fact I did just that today online. It's practical because you can confirm the last d3 part on hit and if they block the overhead b2 then you end the string as b2u3 which is only -3 on block. Alternatively I can do f2bf2 into the same setups and ended but less damage, this could just be the rare example. Also his most damaging ender (unless you do a vacuum late in the combo in which case ji2 u3db2 is). It might as well be overused because it's got other uses too that I won't even go into besides swag.

 

[Slips]

I imagine the design team has a general idea of what they want their character to do, tells the mocap guy the style they are looking for and the bulk of the moves they want. I also imagine artists have moves they would like to see and they get added in as well. And I'm sure the mo-cap people themselves throw in a few of their own ideas.

I'm pretty much saying NRS is mainly about making cool looking moves first, and then worrying about how useful they'll be later.

It's not like there are 300+ moves in these games. You can find out pretty quick which moves are for show and what moves are for winning.

 

[RYX]

I'm actually asking though. If bane had been "fixed" pre-release, would you want them to go back and also give him a bunch of useful strings too? Or who cares because he already has a satisfying competitive meta to compliment his "useless" casual only moves?

well, I mean I'd love to see what could have been with his old f.2 bouncing from the wall and f.1 being a fast HKD

would I like to see them? yeah. Does he need them? No. Would it be something nice? Absolutely.

i think some characters did need these kinds of changes though.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

I'm almost certain i've seen countless videos about when it OTG's leaving you at + and i've used it and it seems to work, maybe my info was outdated or the frame data is?

You're probably thinking of 2 F3 1+2. 2 3+4 have absolutely no use whatsoever. And it looks stupid.

 

[Wigy]

You're probably thinking of 2 F3 1+2. 2 3+4 have absolutely no use whatsoever. And it looks stupid.

Oh shit yeah you're right.

My b.