Question My Fellow Rain Players | Who do you struggle the most against?

[STB Bodam]

I struggle against Sonya and Sub-Zero to the point where I feel the match is won at the character select screen. I know what I'm getting into and I just feel over-matched by these -- even though almost everyone says that Sub-Zero may be one of the worst characters in this game.

I mean, don't get me wrong...I always try my hardest and you can be damn sure I have developed some useful tactics against these two but the majority of the time; I really cannot overcome either of these two. Sonya I struggle against more so than Subby. Two completely different styles of characters -- I know. One an intense "in your face" rushdown character [Sonya] and one helluva turtler/baiter that can end a match with three or four good strings of combos [Sub-Zero].

I'm hoping some of you guys may be able to help me out. I mean, honestly I'm not losing to straight up newbies fresh to the game or people below TrueSkills of about 28 or lower but they do keep the matches a lot closer and tense than I really feel comfortable being the veteran at MK9 that I am -- also don't just assume because you're not a higher up player that I won't take advice from you; I'm very open and friendly to all of the Mortal Kombat 9 community (experienced or only slightly). I'm the exact opposite of what most think they know about the veterans at this game in the regards that I always feel I have something to learn and I'm not afraid to what I was/am doing is flat-out wrong and/or completely stupid.

Also, I will add that I also struggle against some of the top-level players that use Reptile, Johnny Cage, Nightwolf, Smoke & Cyber Sub-Zero and would be very open and appreciative towards some helpful input/strategies against those characters but the problems aren't even close to the extent I have with Subby and Sonya.

I'll start off with what I think my problem is with Sonya:

- The pressure game: All those mix-ups (highs/lows), military stance cancels...it's just so much to process. I'd rather take on 10 Kabals than 1 Sonya.

- What to punish her with: Is Cartwheel completely safe aside from pokes? I like to poke D+4 into the RH pressure but honestly, it's not consistently giving me the results I want. Where the hell can I punish her and what can I punish?

- What to look for and be weary of: Basically, which moves does Rain really excel at getting on her with? The RH dash cancels seem negated, all of which unless you can get in far enough to land either the 3-RHxCancel string or 4-RHxCancel string. What's my best options for making her pay?

- Pokes? Are they necessary against her? They don't seem to be and she'll seemingly beat my footsie game any day of the week. Incredible reach on her D+4 = all day free combos for her off the advantage; what the heck do I do?

- Reliability? What do you feel comfortable going in on her with. What's the general strategy here to getting a win with Rain against her? I already have frustratingly adapted to her incredible Anti-Air options after the standing 1 or 2 (I believe that's what they are. Never played as her except in Story Mode.) So I've got that and I am lead to believe that her D+3 or 4 attack in the air is pretty much nonpunishable and completely safe, so what do I do?

- Frame-traps? I'm no "tech expert" but I'd say she's got a lot more frame-traps than on initial glance. What should I be looking for and what should I do to react to some of these?


As for Sub-Zero:

- The dreaded "Turtler!": What the hell can I do besides try and Lightning check him besides EX Teleport when he's either throwing up an Ice Clone or sitting patiently behind one? Obviously, I've learned that regular Teleporting is not an option and needs to be completely forgotten about because his D+4 is pretty awesome in the fact that it seemingly grants him a free block-string or safe Clone. So, what can I do? Just get better with reading him and reacting with a Lightning check? That's great and all, but as Rain players -- I think we all know Rain's Lightning hit box is a pile of crap and is so punishable that it damn near gives you an anxiety attack throwing it out anywhere but full-screen.

- The Slide/Ice Ball Bait: I'm not so bad at this part. I can bait the Slide, even the EX Slide a lot and can get a full 37%-49% depending on how prepared I am to counter these options, however, it always seems like the life lead really is never safe even with Sub-Zero turtling and myself in solid defense against him. I mean, how hard is it to block high and react quick enough to block low when you see the Slide? That's not the hard part. It's the inconsistencies that I find with Subby to be the most challenging aspect of fighting him.

- Don't Jump!: If you didn't get the achievement, you will against Sub-Zero; at least with Rain. I still find myself using regular Teleport and EX Teleport far more often than I should be against him but that's a habit I'm trying to break for all matches since Rain has much better options to use his meter for (EX Geyser, EX Roundhouse, Shielded Dash Presses, Combo Breakers, etc.). I mean don't get me wrong, if used sparingly and conservatively; the EX Teleport will definitely cause some problems for the other player but if you get too predictable with it, you might as well throw your meter out the door. What can I do to get in far more consistently against Sub-Zero?

- His Goddamned Magnetic Jump-In Punch: Seriously, does any other player aside from maybe Smoke have that awesome of a jump-in punch or is it just me? Obviously, some characters have relatively bad jump-in punches to link into (see Kenshi or Freddy Krueger, etc.) so there's obviously some attributes to each character that we don't know about; only can be recognized through experience and trail and error. But what is it with Sub-Zero's combo? <Jump-In Punch-2-2-... or Jump-In Punch-2-1-...> (same with Smoke's 3-D1-2 combo off a jump-in)

- Closing the Game Out Against Subby: This is my biggest problem (as stated before). I have an extremely hard time getting the damage to close the match out. Maybe it's just me psyching myself out and trying a bit too hard -- possibly even 0verthinking myself. But whatever advice you can give me will be greatly appreciated.

Quick Hits:

- What beats Cyber Sub-Zero's parry? Anything at all? It really just screws me out of my RH-xCancel strings. I'm thinking Hydro Blast or Bubble but I'm a little worried to try it. I guess anything is better than eating a bar because my EX Roundhouse was countered by the Ice Parry. I'm open to suggestions but just as I was writing this; I thought to myself Bubble would definitely be my best option as I could do 28%-34% just off that. Something to think about but I'd be glad to hear what everyone else does.

ANSWER: Use either EX Teleport or try to bait it out with RH pressure then do a naked RH when you think he'll wake up with it but do a 'direct RH move cancel' into either Lightning, Bubble or EX Teleport -- all of those are viable options and can get your opponent to fear your RH strings and even going into RH stance altogether. Also, if I'm not mistaken a meaty D+4 into RH should knock him out of it but I need to test this better.


Thank you, Rain community! I still feel we have one of the most unique and varying play-styles in all of MK9.

 

[Abtin]

I dont' have any good advice on sonia, but a have played alot of sub zeros.

-I noticed that some sub zeros jump in after they have their clone up and since its hard to get on suby ou have to be ready to punish any sort of jump ins. any of these should work:

d1, 43 bubble, 43 lightning, round house, 43 tele 27% (sets you up for more pressure and for oki set ups or reset)

db3 or ex round house, also you can dash back and punish with b1 1+2 ( huge huge hitbox )

-Now dont be afraid to abuse EX dash cancel ( you can go through the clone and the ice ball after it very easily)

-if you see him doing a lot of d4s, try to do EX round house as soon as he gets close to you ( btw i played against book burning and this is how he did it)

-also there are some things which might be obvious but not necessary to beat him, like crouching the ice balls so he cant get free meter which equals breaker which equals breaking the damn combo you worked so hard to get

-as tom brady said there is no need to block low against sub except for sweeps which gives you a wake up option or low pokes which is neutral if blocked and ofc the slide which is very punishable if blocked.

-remember he NEEDS to get close to you in order to do damage and rain is a monster up close even johnny cage doesn't want to see that much rain action so if he is trying to avoid you who cares at least you have the lightning for chip damage

-as you know tele, ex tele, geyser and EX geyser ( if done for no reason what so ever) are punishable so don't throw them out randomly hoping to get a hit because you are tired of him staying back

- once you are up close do the cancel BUT avoid getting into a pattern cuz its easy to poke out of. after doing the cancel once or twice then cancel into b1 b2 or b1 1+2 or just grab him

-SUBY AND WAKE UPs : he can either do the clone or the slide, if you stay close to him there for denying him the clone and block low he will probably jump over you so be ready to punish it. after he is respecting you THEN go in for pressure.

there are a lot of things to cover, i wish i could talk to you about it rather than typing it.
Feel free to correct me if im wrong, i greatly appreciate it.

 

[Enenra]

Hey man if you're down I'll play you with Sub Zero this weekend, it's been awhile since I've used him so I won't be going very hard but I used to be pretty good with him. No promises though, my life is pretty unstable right now, but I'll def try.

 

[Seapeople]

-as tom brady said there is no need to block low against sub except for sweeps which gives you a wake up option or low pokes which is neutral if blocked and ofc the slide which is very punishable if blocked.

I'd say just the opposite of this actually :/ Generally block low against Sub because his only overhead is a super slow, super risky move. Blocking low removes Sub zero's option to random slide or d4 which is a big part of his game.

 

[Mothmonsterman0]

I don't know if it's just me, but i personally like to turtle sub zero out a bit...fuck that stupid clone

if you make him come to you the match seems a bit easier to me

- I like to sit full screen and check him with lighting, and or wait for slides, if he hits me with a ice ball and thinks Damage time! ( witch he is only going to do like 30+ in less he has an xray ) has to come to me to get his damage there for doing the job for me

- Abtin is right too, Armored dashes are good for any match up

Thats just my two cents on sub zero, hope it helps =)

Dose anyone else have trouble with a good Ermac? I recently fought one ( offline ) and had a very hard time getting around his force pushes, and zoning

- using teleport is a joke, inless you wanna eat 45, 50%
- lighting can be kinda useful when trading with energy ball ( or whatever they are called ) since you recover a little faster and can close some distance.
- even when your in, inless you read, and roundhouse his pokes 100% correctly he can push you back out, therefor restarting the whole keep away process

how do you guys feel about the Ermac match up?

Rain vs Cage is one of my favorite match ups personally

Both Characters are rush down, and armor is amazing! in this match up

It's like to drunken hot heads trying to beat the crap out of each other =)

 

[STB Bodam]

Abtin
Thanks man, there is a lot of helpful information I'll try out but what do you play on or are you an offline player?

Enenra
Alright man, next time I see you online I'd love to play you so go hard, homie -- and don't worry, bro I feel ya. I'm not completely brain dead against Subby but both the turtlers and the rush down heavy ones have a tendency to really mess me up (especially Knot Terror and Lionheart).

 

[STB Bodam]

Abtin
Thanks man, there is a lot of helpful information I'll try out but what do you play on or are you an offline player?

Enenra
Alright man, next time I see you online I'd love to play you so go hard, homie -- and don't worry, bro I feel ya. I'm not completely brain dead against Subby but both the turtlers and the rush down heavy ones have a tendency to really mess me up (especially Knot Terror and Lionheart).

EMMURE789
Ya know, man I used to really struggle against Ermac, too but it's really not that hard of a match-up. Play him almost like you'd play Cyrax. Sure, Ermac has excellent zoning tools and some solid rushdown options but he's certainly not unbeatable considering Ermac's lack of armor on anything but his X-Ray. There's nothing wrong with doing a bit of turtling -- you can bait a lot of Ermac's specials for huge punishment. This is another match where I feel like Rain's armor can dictate the match if you use it correctly but never underestimate any Ermac player. You'll get blown up if they really know the match-up well enough, too.

I'd say Ermac v Rain is about as 5-5 as a 5-5 can get but if I had to give any advantage I'd say Ermac because his tools really lend themselves to keeping Rain out and if they stay safe enough, they'll definitely surprise you. But honestly the armored pressure can really blow Ermac up. What you need to know is to not jump in on Ermac in a predictable fashion, it's so easy to be pushed back to full screen or eat a hard punish by his standing 2 if you guess wrong when to jump in. You just need to find that 'sweet spot' of when it's safe and when it's not. Try to stay as safe as you can against Ermac and play patiently.

As for Cage, you should go further into detail about this because this is another character that gives me a hard time. If they get the F3-3 ... (string) or the 1-1 ... (string) off it is quick enough to knock you out of your armor from a dash cancel. Also, that f---er is hard to get off! In the corner, I might as well put the controller down. Nothing seems to work for me against high level Cages. I really need to learn this match-up so I stop getting blown up by @Dill Mac and @nogunyesknife

 

[Abtin]

Seapeople
well i rather eat a slide that gives me a free wake up rather than taking the risk of f4 linked to either slide or ice clone or ice ball
beside if you block low he has another string whihc he can finish either way: b1,2 ice clone or over head or slide or SAFE low
(yes you can argue that they are slow and easy to see but remember you are playing against a human not the AI).
all this aside i can see your point .


@EMMURE789
Yeah i have such a hard time against Cage not just with rain but in general, i get mind fucked by his rush down.part of it might be online and not being able to poke out of his godly strings. i got flawlessed against Foxy while i was playing sub zero

as far as Ermac goes, i think its a 5-5 too( kinda):

1. Ermac lacks a good wake up and they are both punishable (to the point that if you jump over the guy and he does lift or push, he'll get punished), sure he can tele and have a few frames of invincibility even after he tele ports, ive seen some people that still jump over and KICK instead of PUNCHING and it beats the teleport (not sure if reliable or not)
2. I swear rain's EX dash cancel is so good ( the ,, is interrupt-able and screw the force push)
3. ermac most damaging starter is super slow (ermac is slow in general)
4. i think ermac can punish rain's lighning with the push ( not full screen thou)
5. against a good ermac, if you jump over or at, you are going to eat a full combo
6. that f2 looks pretty tight, specially that it has a few frames of advantage on block and can be linked to force lift
7. ermac lacks a good over head or low ( btw after the over head be careful if you want to jump over him, he can easily uppercut you behind him and lift after wards)
8. they both have good damage output( 40% + with no meter)

While at it, HOW IN THE NAME OF ALL THAT IS SACRED AND HOLY, DO YOU PLAY AGAINST KITANA????? i have no answer for her instant fans or the anti airs AND she has damaging Kombos and, D1 the dreaded d1........

i might be wrong but please correct me if you see a mistake

 

[Seapeople]

Seapeople
well i rather eat a slide that gives me a free wake up rather than taking the risk of f4 linked to either slide or ice clone or ice ball
beside if you block low he has another string whihc he can finish either way: b1,2 ice clone or over head or slide or SAFE low
(yes you can argue that they are slow and easy to see but remember you are playing against a human not the AI).
all this aside i can see your point .

I understand what you mean. And you're right - I don't think f4 can be fuzzy guarded. But speaking from experience as a long time Sub player, a stand blocking opponent just opens up my mixups.

-d4 on hit gives me a free 21 pressure, and once you learn to block I'll start throwing you.
-Random slides happen much more often than f4~freeze because the slide is faster and can be done from half screen. Slide is also an untechable knockdown, so that limits your options :/
-b12 isn't a problem if you crouch block because b1 whiffs and you can poke me out.
-After Sub starts any combo string, he doesn't have any overhead attacks so you should definitely block low to avoid stupid slides (224~slide, etc.)

Force Sub Zero to try f4~freeze. Trust me And anyway, there's a good chance you will poke me before f4 even connects because it is 24 frames.

 

[Enenra]

BodamEscapePlan
Haha ok. I'll try and practice a bit so I can give you a show. And for CSZ, I just zone him. It sounds funny to hear about Rain zoning, but I play it like Smoke. Zone, chip, bait, and punish. Easy win.

 

[Verstande]

I struggle against Sonya and Sub-Zero to the point where I feel the match is won at the character select screen. I know what I'm getting into and I just feel over-matched by these -- even though almost everyone says that Sub-Zero may be one of the worst characters in this game.

I mean, don't get me wrong...I always try my hardest and you can be damn sure I have developed some useful tactics against these two but the majority of the time; I really cannot overcome either of these two. Sonya I struggle against more so than Subby. Two completely different styles of characters -- I know. One an intense "in your face" rushdown character [Sonya] and one helluva turtler/baiter that can end a match with three or four good strings of combos [Sub-Zero].

I'm hoping some of you guys may be able to help me out. I mean, honestly I'm not losing to straight up newbies fresh to the game or people below TrueSkills of about 28 or lower but they do keep the matches a lot closer and tense than I really feel comfortable being the veteran at MK9 that I am -- also don't just assume because you're not a higher up player that I won't take advice from you; I'm very open and friendly to all of the Mortal Kombat 9 community (experienced or only slightly). I'm the exact opposite of what most think they know about the veterans at this game in the regards that I always feel I have something to learn and I'm not afraid to what I was/am doing is flat-out wrong and/or completely stupid.

Also, I will add that I also struggle against some of the top-level players that use Reptile, Johnny Cage, Nightwolf, Smoke & Cyber Sub-Zero and would be very open and appreciative towards some helpful input/strategies against those characters but the problems aren't even close to the extent I have with Subby and Sonya.

I'll start off with what I think my problem is with Sonya:

- The pressure game: All those mix-ups (highs/lows), military stance cancels...it's just so much to process. I'd rather take on 10 Kabals than 1 Sonya.

- What to punish her with: Is Cartwheel completely safe aside from pokes? I like to poke D+4 into the RH pressure but honestly, it's not consistently giving me the results I want. Where the hell can I punish her and what can I punish?

- What to look for and be weary of: Basically, which moves does Rain really excel at getting on her with? The RH dash cancels seem negated, all of which unless you can get in far enough to land either the 3-RHxCancel string or 4-RHxCancel string. What's my best options for making her pay?

- Pokes? Are they necessary against her? They don't seem to be and she'll seemingly beat my footsie game any day of the week. Incredible reach on her D+4 = all day free combos for her off the advantage; what the heck do I do?

- Reliability? What do you feel comfortable going in on her with. What's the general strategy here to getting a win with Rain against her? I already have frustratingly adapted to her incredible Anti-Air options after the standing 1 or 2 (I believe that's what they are. Never played as her except in Story Mode.) So I've got that and I am lead to believe that her D+3 or 4 attack in the air is pretty much nonpunishable and completely safe, so what do I do?

- Frame-traps? I'm no "tech expert" but I'd say she's got a lot more frame-traps than on initial glance. What should I be looking for and what should I do to react to some of these?


As for Sub-Zero:

- The dreaded "Turtler!": What the hell can I do besides try and Lightning check him besides EX Teleport when he's either throwing up an Ice Clone or sitting patiently behind one? Obviously, I've learned that regular Teleporting is not an option and needs to be completely forgotten about because his D+4 is pretty awesome in the fact that it seemingly grants him a free block-string or safe Clone. So, what can I do? Just get better with reading him and reacting with a Lightning check? That's great and all, but as Rain players -- I think we all know Rain's Lightning hit box is a pile of crap and is so punishable that it damn near gives you an anxiety attack throwing it out anywhere but full-screen.

- The Slide/Ice Ball Bait: I'm not so bad at this part. I can bait the Slide, even the EX Slide a lot and can get a full 37%-49% depending on how prepared I am to counter these options, however, it always seems like the life lead really is never safe even with Sub-Zero turtling and myself in solid defense against him. I mean, how hard is it to block high and react quick enough to block low when you see the Slide? That's not the hard part. It's the inconsistencies that I find with Subby to be the most challenging aspect of fighting him.

- Don't Jump!: If you didn't get the achievement, you will against Sub-Zero; at least with Rain. I still find myself using regular Teleport and EX Teleport far more often than I should be against him but that's a habit I'm trying to break for all matches since Rain has much better options to use his meter for (EX Geyser, EX Roundhouse, Shielded Dash Presses, Combo Breakers, etc.). I mean don't get me wrong, if used sparingly and conservatively; the EX Teleport will definitely cause some problems for the other player but if you get too predictable with it, you might as well throw your meter out the door. What can I do to get in far more consistently against Sub-Zero?

- His Goddamned Magnetic Jump-In Punch: Seriously, does any other player aside from maybe Smoke have that awesome of a jump-in punch or is it just me? Obviously, some characters have relatively bad jump-in punches to link into (see Kenshi or Freddy Krueger, etc.) so there's obviously some attributes to each character that we don't know about; only can be recognized through experience and trail and error. But what is it with Sub-Zero's combo? <Jump-In Punch-2-2-... or Jump-In Punch-2-1-...> (same with Smoke's 3-D1-2 combo off a jump-in)

- Closing the Game Out Against Subby: This is my biggest problem (as stated before). I have an extremely hard time getting the damage to close the match out. Maybe it's just me psyching myself out and trying a bit too hard -- possibly even 0verthinking myself. But whatever advice you can give me will be greatly appreciated.

Quick Hits:

- What beats Cyber Sub-Zero's parry? Anything at all? It really just screws me out of my RH-xCancel strings. I'm thinking Hydro Blast or Bubble but I'm a little worried to try it. I guess anything is better than eating a bar because my EX Roundhouse was countered by the Ice Parry. I'm open to suggestions but just as I was writing this; I thought to myself Bubble would definitely be my best option as I could do 28%-34% just off that. Something to think about but I'd be glad to hear what everyone else does.

ANSWER: Use either EX Teleport or try to bait it out with RH pressure then do a naked RH when you think he'll wake up with it but do a 'direct RH move cancel' into either Lightning, Bubble or EX Teleport -- all of those are viable options and can get your opponent to fear your RH strings and even going into RH stance altogether. Also, if I'm not mistaken a meaty D+4 into RH should knock him out of it but I need to test this better.


Thank you, Rain community! I still feel we have one of the most unique and varying play-styles in all of MK9.

Can't you just roundhouse cancel through Sonya? It has good armor at the least to my knowledge.

 

[Enenra]

Yeah, Sonya wants none of Rain up close. EN RH> EN Cartwheel. Basically, in this match, whoever gets their offense going wins.

 

[STB Bodam]

Yeah, Sonya wants none of Rain up close. EN RH> EN Cartwheel. Basically, in this match, whoever gets their offense going wins.

I think I just fear her mixup game far too much.

 

[Enenra]

I think I just fear her mixup game far too much.

Oh ya, the Sonya mixup sucks.

 

[Mothmonsterman0]

- Antin , yeah i have changed the way i approach the Ermac match a little bit thanks for the advice man!

lol I don't really have any secret tech to make the JC match up easier, a good JC will give me, and most anyone else problems for that matter.
i just think it's a fun match up, i don't have to chase anyone =)

The way a approach it really is use alot of spacing, and try to keep my roundhouse pressure on point

when I'm not spacing him out and waiting for mess ups, down 4 followed up by 4,3 round house cancel.......ect it good too

most scrubby JC's will throw out shadow kicks if you keep checking them with lighting too

I think this is a great Thread to help out up coming Rain users too Good call Bodam

 

[Abtin]

@EMMURE789
i have problems with him rush down, when he is on you, its game over. IDK what string can i poke out of or even punish

i just list a few things that I have problem with, any information related to these would be useful:

1. CSZ dive kick punish ? (not below the waist but an unsafe one)

2. kenshi can finish his strings with the shoulder thingy and i cant get close to him AND he can punish lightning full screen

3. zoners in general, specially the ones with fast recovery ie, kano, kitana's instant air fans, kabal's instant air blast....

4. the fact that cyrax can finish you off in ONE kombo

5. sonia's mix ups, to me all she does is safe and has advantage on it.....how do you punish the arc kick or the dive kick???

6. liu kang mix ups and close up game, how can i get the fucker off of me he is too fast for me and when i try to the EX roundhouse he can punch me out before it comes out, idk if its just me or her can actually do that, he can parry and he has instant, low and high fireballs

if you guys have any Technic or information that might help, pls share. one of the problems with mk community is that people keep things from each other
you can add me on xbox if you want to talk about these things.

Bodam great job

 

[Leooooh]

Hey
First of all Bodam, great thread!!! This will healp a lot of people to improve their playstile with Rain.

1. CSZ dive kick punish ? (not below the waist but an unsafe one)

From the very few experience that I have against CZS, I normally punish a blocked dive kick with 4 RH.

2. kenshi can finish his strings with the shoulder thingy and i cant get close to him AND he can punish lightning full screen

Kenshi from my point of view is a difficult match for Rain. Rain struggles against any good zoner, and Kenshi has a lot of tools to keep him out. Try to abuse the armored dash to get close and also the EX Teleport followed by a normal Teleport since the EX will throw the oponent far away

3. zoners in general, specially the ones with fast recovery ie, kano, kitana's instant air fans, kabal's instant air blast....

Same as Kenshi. I like to use also the Aqua Squirt against Kabal when he is far from you, since they usually use the Nomad Dash Cancel to approach you. Against Kano, keep dash blocking till you can get close to them, and if you can block a Up Ball, use 1, 43, Water Bubble, 43 Lightning, RH, ender of choice.

4. the fact that cyrax can finish you off in ONE kombo

I don't know what to say to help you here. The basic advise is to stay away from that Net and once you are clse to Cyrax, they have some serious problems against rush down characters.

5. sonia's mix ups, to me all she does is safe and has advantage on it.....how do you punish the arc kick or the dive kick???

I have two friends that have a very, very good Sonya, and like you said, that character is a pain for Rain. A huge one. They use a lot the d4 Military Stance, and that wretched Dive Kick that comes out of nowhere and leads to very damaging combos. I have the same problems as you and Bodam, so I need some help too.
The Arc Kick I always punish with my BnB (43, water Bubble, Uppercut, 43 Lightning, RH, 4 Geyser Kick) and the Dive Kick you can punish it with the 4 RH.

6. liu kang mix ups and close up game, how can i get the fucker off of me he is too fast for me and when i try to the EX roundhouse he can punch me out before it comes out, idk if its just me or her can actually do that, he can parry and he has instant, low and high fireballs

I am so glad to see that I am not the only Rain player to struggle a lot against this guy lol. He is fast in close game and has very good tools to zone Rain. Any kind of tip for this matchup would be very useful.

 

[smokey]

Lui Kang

I have trouble fighting him because of his crazy ability to go from rushing to zoning in the blink of an eye, that really messes with me trying to get in on him and stay in, i conditioned LK with teleport when hes zoning, if he fireballs you can tele and then EX roundhouse into pressure which he cant really react to without a jedi parry, which you can dash cancel out of. If you can lock him down and manage to get a bubble on him, you should always drop him at max heaight around full screen, and go into jip pressure from there, if you can play a good mixup game in his face you should play him back into the same situation again and again, wittling him down bit by bit until he breaks, at which point you can armour back in with a well timed EX roundhouse.

Hopefully this made sense and helped, this is really the only outlook i can give on the matchup, because hes got a very good fast zoning capability that really gives you trouble getting in, so once your in do NOT let him out.

 

[STB Bodam]

Abtin
@EMMURE789

Recently,
I've done a lot better handling Johnny Cage's but it is still (in my opinion) the toughest fight you will possibly have with Rain simply because if he uses that F3-3-B3 string, it's game over if you try to use a shielded dash press. But this is a match where you need to just fight him back. If he does the seemingly endless F3-2 (into that Ex Greenball) you wanna block the first hit and poke him out with D+3. If you're quick enough, you can try to cross him over or try to escape and re-approach him with either a shielded dash or bait him into attacking you and just let the Ex Roundhouse fly. It should give him problems.

Basically, Johnny Cage doesn't want you to have meter but he needs it, as well so if you can force breakers and use your armor well enough. This is a fight you can overcome unless you're playing the absolute sickest Cage's (Dill Mac, NOgunYESknife, Superi0r Magik) then you really are going to need a ton of skill/luck to win this. Also, remember if he gets you in that F1-1-1 string use D+1 to poke out and always be cautious of jump-ins, most Cage's will standing 1 you into a full combo if not they will punish you somehow with their specials as they make for pretty good anti-airs. Also, keep in mind his nut-punch is essentially free pressure for him so always keep that in mind. Use breakers when he goes for his longest strings ending in nut-punches as these can be truly devastating and be the difference between a win and a loss.

If you need help with anything else in this match-up please let me know. Also, do not be afraid to use regular Geyser Kick as a "get off me" and Ex Geyser is pretty useful in this fight, too. Just try to make sure it's a good time to use it (standing over you/trying to start a combo). I wish @Book Burning would chime in a bit as I'd love to hear what he does as some will tell you this is 5-5. I strongly believe it's not and it is a 6.5-3.5 in Cage's favor unless you're very experienced with Rain and know what you're going to use against him.

Also to answer your questions you listed:

1 - CSZ Dive Kick? The answer isn't very clear, to be honest. This is a match-up I struggle in immensely because he can deny your pressure and make you play his game. I'd probably tell you try checking him with a Ex Teleport. That's probably your best option unless you see it coming and Geyser perfectly. EDIT: According to this thread you can punish it with 4-RH (which is a string I really struggle with sometimes it'll come out as D+4~RH or just a naked 4) but if you practice it, you'll understand the timing a little better and if you can do it naturally, it's a great tool. In theory, I also believe standing 1-1~Special would work but I'm not positive. I don't have a lot of CSZ experience.

2 - Kenshi? You want to pressure but you don't want to be reckless. You have to respect all of his strings and options. Also, you have to find his sweet spot to do jump-ins. Honestly, once you're in it can be a dog fight as he has underrated combos that can be devastating in the right hands. Also, don't be afraid to use shielded dash presses into combos, that might be your only option but it's a great option because you can either force him to breaker or take the damage and Kenshi's EX moves are what really set him apart. Be careful teleporting because he can do the Upward Slash or the Shoulder Charge on reaction and you'll be back to square one. Use D+1 and D+3 to get some breathing room and be able to throw some blows. You should be able to be faster than most Kenshi's. But remember to block his strings all the way and don't try jump-ins until you're very comfortable. Oh, and your Lightning is useless almost as he can just murder you with his traps with the Down Slice.

3 - Zoners? Kitana is a dog fight for every inch but you need to block her D+1 she cannot go directly into a cutter then and you need to poke her with D+1 quite a bit when you get comfortable using it to stop her combos and get spacing. Just remember to use the Bubble to if she's dominating air space. Most Kitana players forget about this option and do not under any circumstance let them get you with an Ex Fan Toss as she can do 40% off one.

Kabal's iaFB is so easy to defend against. Just Ex Teleport him and scare him right out of it. It's safe and you'll land it every time. It may be hard but you have to get in close on him and try not to get too pressured. Punish his Nomad Dash and be careful Teleporting as his Blade Saws will knock you out before you even have a chance to stand up so time it right. This is a fight where you need to use Ex Roundhouses, Ex Geyser and Shielded Dashes to get in and punish. Don't be afraid poke him either. You have to experiment and show him you're not going to respect his Nomad Dash cancel pressure game and give him a bit of your own. Personally, I love this match-up because you can really surprise them and blow them up if you're a master of using the 4/3/3-3/4-3/B2 into RH cancel strings. Make him guess and you will be rewarded more often than not.

Kano is a feeler game sort of. You're going to have to Ex Teleport his Knife Toss or time your jump-ins perfectly which is incredibly hard considering he can Upball you and just murder you. Dash blocking is your best option but can be tough to pull off because of the lag. His regular ball is fully punishable so always block it. His Knives are a pain in the ass but this is totally a winnable fight if you use the RH cancel strings and Rain's armor game effectively. D+1 is a great tool, as well to poke him out. Just be careful when trying to punish his block-strings some have tricky block advantage. I really like to get it all going with 3-RH for a full combo or just flat-out turn it on right away and get the 4-3-RH going and make him guess. I love this fight, personally.

Noob is relatively easy if you aren't afraid to use meter. Don't use shielded dashes too much as Noob can pretty much keep good distance on Rain and don't Teleport a whole lot unless you're countering his Shadow Charge or Slide. He has a lot of options if Rain becomes to predictable. Also, the Black Hole resets can be negated if you save meter effectively (you should) and breaker or use wake-ups to get out of them. This match-up is not hard, at all and believe it or not I feel is almost a severe disadvantage for Noob.

4 - Cyrax? Don't be afraid of him. As soon as you see his chest open up do nothing but block it and punish him with whatever you can. I like to play mind games if they like to throw naked bombs and shielded dash them to close the gap but this can be extremely dangerous if they haven't thrown a net or have a lot of meter. Basically, anything you have is faster than his. RH cancel strings are your best friend and you want to punish him for 40%-47% with your best BnB. This is a match that is 5.5/4.5 if you play it right. Just be careful of those resets and use your meter wisely, if at all. Never breaker until he spends some meter, too.

5 - Sonya? Honestly, I have no idea with her. I like to poke her out with D+1 and see what I can do but I've just tried to fight with shielded dashes and Ex RH kicks. This is one I'd like to see how others play.

6 - Liu Kang? If you use your pokes effectively you can negate any rhythm he could possibly establish. Also, your armor beats his on his Ex Dragon Kick and Bicycle Kicks. He should be smarter than using Dragon Kicks though as you can punish Liu badly. I like to block low against LK because he only has the one hit overhead and that's relatively easy to see coming and doesn't do a whole lot if you show him you know how to block his strings. This is a match that seems horrible at first but make him pay with your armor and don't like him get you into the corner and you'll be fine. Once again, RH cancel strings are your best friend so abuse them until he guesses wrong and mix it up!

If anyone on Xbox doesn't know how to use a shielded dash or cancel this RH stance into more pressure/specials then just add me and I'll show you what I mean. I'm not the best teacher but I can show you mid-match and I typically enjoy Rain mirrors (unless you bastards hit confirm 2-4-RH well enough). I know Book Burning can be very hard to get a hold of to show you some of the tools Rain has and I'd be more than willing to show you the tools Rain has to offer and teach you everything that I know about him. We need more Rain!

I hope I've helped you achieve more success with Rain. I feel like every match, I have the potential to blow somebody up when I'm really on top of my stuff. Let me know if I can help any further as I check this thread as much as possible (since most of the Rain boards were dead when I first started posting here) so I'm trying to keep it active because even I don't know everything about every match-up but I'm learning slowly and really starting to believe in my game.

 

[Nai_Lienoj]

I personally struggle against Raiden and Reptile. Any general tips or strategies? I'd greatly appreciate it!

 

[swag1]

I personally struggle against Raiden and Reptile. Any general tips or strategies? I'd greatly appreciate it!

From my personal experience with Reptile, use water bubble resets to prevent wakeup, because his Elbow Dash on wakeup can give Rain some problems. If he starts throwing out the force balls, I respect them for a little bit, then take the risk of teleporting into a combo/RH kick cancels offence. Guard against wakeup, and punish with your combos into water bubble resets. Main combo I use is 4,3 ~ Lightning, >> Uppercut (you know the deal about reversing the way and everything), >> 4,3 ~ Bubble, into RH kick cancels to keep the offence. Try to bait him to Dash out of pressure, then punish, rinse and repeat. Once again, all my personal experience. I don't have enough experience against half decent Raiden players to give any advice there.

I have a problem with Smoke for some reason. I always end up getting hit with the resets (luck of the draw), but I seem to get that kind of Kano X-Ray paralyzed thing when he ends combos with whiff teleport into throw. Whenever I try to throw out a lightning into Bubble for pressure, players seem to read in and teleport. Also, I hate his B2. Plus since Smoke is so fast and Rain's best string(s) have a slow startup 10 frame standing 1 and 4, fastest move is 6 frame D+1, but I find that they end up smoking out into Smoke Bombs. I developed a strategy of maintaing constant offence, considering Rain's primary string is 1 frame faster than his. Anyways, I just find this matchup a pain in the ass. Any advice?

Is armour on the EX RH Kick instant? A lot of people always praise in, and say "oh yeah use it to escape pressure and shit", but really, it has a 30 frame startup (see frame data, not sure about this, not an expert with it), so escaping someone's pressure like say Cage's or Sonya's is easier said than done.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Well, honestly... as a Sub-Zero player... I feel the most comfortable when I'm up in your face. The problem with Rain is he can't really keep you out. It's easy to block bubble b/c you can see it coming from a mile away and lightning as well.

I'd say your best weapon would be enhanced RH kick b/c of the armor and it leads into a combo.

 

[Abtin]

Nai_Lienoj BodamEscapePlan
what part of reptile?dash?close up?zoning?the fact that he didnt need the armor and he was already a pain to play against?
of course im kidding...poor reptile needed all of this and the fact that his dash got nerfed by A FEW frames really damaged the poor creature :|

reptile:

THE DASH: Since its super hard to punish this move online because of the lag ( even after the patch) you have to anticipate it. AS SOON AS you block his dash do 3, round house, 1~~1, 43, water bubble, 43 lightning to either aqua splash to leave him standing and take his wake up option away or after the lightning finish with 43 tele to mix it up BUT remember to mix it up.

After you block the dash they usually freak out and do another one OR they jump over you OR if they have even a little bit of dignity and respect for you they try to poke you. again if you see your opponent is so cheap that keep on jumping over you, do a NJP that mess them up.

iv noticed A LOT of reptiles use the dash to get close and then do a jump in, very common, so watch out for it. you can punish with standing 1.

you can try to grab BUT someone told me that if you go for the grab and they expect it, they can escape it rather easily.

as far as the goo ball goes you can dash cancel through it start a full combo; as long as you are relatively close to him ( 43 has amazing range and is kinda fast)

after you see the goo ball DO NOT freak out and try to jump in on reptile ( or anyone for that matter) , cuz if he is a good reptile he will charge the EX one and bait the jump in.

but for me the worse part is that i have to be ready to block because of the constant threat of the dash.

Raiden: my most hated character, according to TYM his teleport can escape nearly everything ( WTF?)

tele: if you are as fast as a cat you can poke with d1 to 43 bubble, if you see him jumping over you ( which online for some reason is VERY common) do a NJP

a decent raiden will poke you after the tele or go for f2,4 to apply more pressure.
interesting fact about raiden: dont constantly jump out of f2,4 since he can do a super man and put you in the corner.
you can also do standig 1 after the tele, if you do it fast enough you can start a combo.

EX lightning ball: DUCK it, even if he does it after a string you can still duck it, most likely he WILL do a jump in so punish with d1, he might do a super man so watch out for it.( you have enough time to block after the lightning balls have passed)

dont jump at him, he can anti air with his shock or ex shock since it has one hit of armor in on or he can tele on reaction and ruin you.

i rather to poke him after his normals since:
1.if he tries to up over he will get hit
2.if he does the anti air it wont hit you
3. if he teleports he will ( with a little bit of luck) get hit

but he can go for a superman or shock if he suspects you to poke out ( but if he does it and you block it, you can punish with full combo

but online if you see them going for raiden just quit the game, no frustrating teleports, no annoying noises, believe me no one will blame you :|

these are some general tips. I hope it helped. if you want me to be more specific please tell me.

 

[Abtin]

swag1

so first of all smoke needs to get close to you in order to do damage, while making crazy meter with smoke bomb. his only over head is b2 so no reason to block low, except for the sweeps.

after the whiffed tele you can easily do a wake up attack, since most smokes do it after the grab or the air grab so you kinda know when its coming

i dont recommend doing a dash cancel no reason to waste meter.

most smokes to a air tele port to get close to you, be ready to punish with standing 1 to 43 bubble.

they can d1 and hit confirm it to smoke bomb after 3,d1,2 so watch it. you can for a fact try to poke

he cant shake lighting so its ok to check him with it.

don't throw random water bubbles, i THINK he can punish with smoke bomb.

they can do d4 to smoke bomb for mind games ( tylerlantern does it here and there)
they can also go for d4 to b2

most people don't know that smoke bomb is not safe up close so at least grab him.

they can EX shake out of the 43 round house cancel pressure, so don't go berserk on them and apply blind pressure.

after 112 he can throw a smoke bomb to get you off guard.

if you knock him down he can either tele port in which case you can duck it and uppercut
he can go for smoke away which again you can poke out of after he is on the other side ( you gotta be fast)
or they EX shake which again you can poke them out of it

if you jump at him and he is a good smoke he can EX shake or do standing 2 ( great anti air btw)

 

[BookBurning]

I personally struggle against Raiden and Reptile. Any general tips or strategies? I'd greatly appreciate it!

3 is your best friend in both of those matchups.

I struggle with Sub-Zero mainly, Sonya and other Rain's ironically. I'm not sure what it is with the Rain vs Rain matchup, but somewhere along the lines I tend to screw them up. Sonya gives me trouble because she's really hard to pressure, I suppose I'd put CSZ up there for the same reason but in reality, the only CSZ's who have potential to be difficult for me are Pig and J360.

Sub-Zero's clone is the bane of Rain and it's not so much because Rain can't get through it, but more because Rain has no projectile, not really atleast. When you have no meter, the best thing you can do is sit there looking like an idiot, throw out some lightnings and RH cancels to build some meter and pray to your God.

Then, when you do bust through it, I mean, you spent a whole meter busting through a single ice clone. This is basically your critical moment to do something otherwise the shitty cycle will continue itself after a bit.

Anyways, without being too specific, anyone who forces Rain to use his nonexistent projectiles, or anyone who negates Rain pressure gives me a hard time. Rain is a rushdown , mixup character at his heart and when he has trouble doing both of those, he can be at a loss.

I also wanted to add that if played correctly vs Rain, Kabal can be a real pain in the ass too. It's just that most of the time Kabal players aren't patient enough so they turn it into a 5-5 by playing Rushdown. If they play really lame it can easily turn into a 6-4 Kabal's favor.