STB Bodam
"Game... Blouses."
I struggle against Sonya and Sub-Zero to the point where I feel the match is won at the character select screen. I know what I'm getting into and I just feel over-matched by these -- even though almost everyone says that Sub-Zero may be one of the worst characters in this game.
I mean, don't get me wrong...I always try my hardest and you can be damn sure I have developed some useful tactics against these two but the majority of the time; I really cannot overcome either of these two. Sonya I struggle against more so than Subby. Two completely different styles of characters -- I know. One an intense "in your face" rushdown character [Sonya] and one helluva turtler/baiter that can end a match with three or four good strings of combos [Sub-Zero].
I'm hoping some of you guys may be able to help me out. I mean, honestly I'm not losing to straight up newbies fresh to the game or people below TrueSkills of about 28 or lower but they do keep the matches a lot closer and tense than I really feel comfortable being the veteran at MK9 that I am -- also don't just assume because you're not a higher up player that I won't take advice from you; I'm very open and friendly to all of the Mortal Kombat 9 community (experienced or only slightly). I'm the exact opposite of what most think they know about the veterans at this game in the regards that I always feel I have something to learn and I'm not afraid to what I was/am doing is flat-out wrong and/or completely stupid.
Also, I will add that I also struggle against some of the top-level players that use Reptile, Johnny Cage, Nightwolf, Smoke & Cyber Sub-Zero and would be very open and appreciative towards some helpful input/strategies against those characters but the problems aren't even close to the extent I have with Subby and Sonya.
I'll start off with what I think my problem is with Sonya:
- The pressure game: All those mix-ups (highs/lows), military stance cancels...it's just so much to process. I'd rather take on 10 Kabals than 1 Sonya.
- What to punish her with: Is Cartwheel completely safe aside from pokes? I like to poke D+4 into the RH pressure but honestly, it's not consistently giving me the results I want. Where the hell can I punish her and what can I punish?
- What to look for and be weary of: Basically, which moves does Rain really excel at getting on her with? The RH dash cancels seem negated, all of which unless you can get in far enough to land either the 3-RHxCancel string or 4-RHxCancel string. What's my best options for making her pay?
- Pokes? Are they necessary against her? They don't seem to be and she'll seemingly beat my footsie game any day of the week. Incredible reach on her D+4 = all day free combos for her off the advantage; what the heck do I do?
- Reliability? What do you feel comfortable going in on her with. What's the general strategy here to getting a win with Rain against her? I already have frustratingly adapted to her incredible Anti-Air options after the standing 1 or 2 (I believe that's what they are. Never played as her except in Story Mode.) So I've got that and I am lead to believe that her D+3 or 4 attack in the air is pretty much nonpunishable and completely safe, so what do I do?
- Frame-traps? I'm no "tech expert" but I'd say she's got a lot more frame-traps than on initial glance. What should I be looking for and what should I do to react to some of these?
As for Sub-Zero:
- The dreaded "Turtler!": What the hell can I do besides try and Lightning check him besides EX Teleport when he's either throwing up an Ice Clone or sitting patiently behind one? Obviously, I've learned that regular Teleporting is not an option and needs to be completely forgotten about because his D+4 is pretty awesome in the fact that it seemingly grants him a free block-string or safe Clone. So, what can I do? Just get better with reading him and reacting with a Lightning check? That's great and all, but as Rain players -- I think we all know Rain's Lightning hit box is a pile of crap and is so punishable that it damn near gives you an anxiety attack throwing it out anywhere but full-screen.
- The Slide/Ice Ball Bait: I'm not so bad at this part. I can bait the Slide, even the EX Slide a lot and can get a full 37%-49% depending on how prepared I am to counter these options, however, it always seems like the life lead really is never safe even with Sub-Zero turtling and myself in solid defense against him. I mean, how hard is it to block high and react quick enough to block low when you see the Slide? That's not the hard part. It's the inconsistencies that I find with Subby to be the most challenging aspect of fighting him.
- Don't Jump!: If you didn't get the achievement, you will against Sub-Zero; at least with Rain. I still find myself using regular Teleport and EX Teleport far more often than I should be against him but that's a habit I'm trying to break for all matches since Rain has much better options to use his meter for (EX Geyser, EX Roundhouse, Shielded Dash Presses, Combo Breakers, etc.). I mean don't get me wrong, if used sparingly and conservatively; the EX Teleport will definitely cause some problems for the other player but if you get too predictable with it, you might as well throw your meter out the door. What can I do to get in far more consistently against Sub-Zero?
- His Goddamned Magnetic Jump-In Punch: Seriously, does any other player aside from maybe Smoke have that awesome of a jump-in punch or is it just me? Obviously, some characters have relatively bad jump-in punches to link into (see Kenshi or Freddy Krueger, etc.) so there's obviously some attributes to each character that we don't know about; only can be recognized through experience and trail and error. But what is it with Sub-Zero's combo? <Jump-In Punch-2-2-... or Jump-In Punch-2-1-...> (same with Smoke's 3-D1-2 combo off a jump-in)
- Closing the Game Out Against Subby: This is my biggest problem (as stated before). I have an extremely hard time getting the damage to close the match out. Maybe it's just me psyching myself out and trying a bit too hard -- possibly even 0verthinking myself. But whatever advice you can give me will be greatly appreciated.
Quick Hits:
- What beats Cyber Sub-Zero's parry? Anything at all? It really just screws me out of my RH-xCancel strings. I'm thinking Hydro Blast or Bubble but I'm a little worried to try it. I guess anything is better than eating a bar because my EX Roundhouse was countered by the Ice Parry. I'm open to suggestions but just as I was writing this; I thought to myself Bubble would definitely be my best option as I could do 28%-34% just off that. Something to think about but I'd be glad to hear what everyone else does.
ANSWER: Use either EX Teleport or try to bait it out with RH pressure then do a naked RH when you think he'll wake up with it but do a 'direct RH move cancel' into either Lightning, Bubble or EX Teleport -- all of those are viable options and can get your opponent to fear your RH strings and even going into RH stance altogether. Also, if I'm not mistaken a meaty D+4 into RH should knock him out of it but I need to test this better.
Thank you, Rain community! I still feel we have one of the most unique and varying play-styles in all of MK9.
I mean, don't get me wrong...I always try my hardest and you can be damn sure I have developed some useful tactics against these two but the majority of the time; I really cannot overcome either of these two. Sonya I struggle against more so than Subby. Two completely different styles of characters -- I know. One an intense "in your face" rushdown character [Sonya] and one helluva turtler/baiter that can end a match with three or four good strings of combos [Sub-Zero].
I'm hoping some of you guys may be able to help me out. I mean, honestly I'm not losing to straight up newbies fresh to the game or people below TrueSkills of about 28 or lower but they do keep the matches a lot closer and tense than I really feel comfortable being the veteran at MK9 that I am -- also don't just assume because you're not a higher up player that I won't take advice from you; I'm very open and friendly to all of the Mortal Kombat 9 community (experienced or only slightly). I'm the exact opposite of what most think they know about the veterans at this game in the regards that I always feel I have something to learn and I'm not afraid to what I was/am doing is flat-out wrong and/or completely stupid.
Also, I will add that I also struggle against some of the top-level players that use Reptile, Johnny Cage, Nightwolf, Smoke & Cyber Sub-Zero and would be very open and appreciative towards some helpful input/strategies against those characters but the problems aren't even close to the extent I have with Subby and Sonya.
I'll start off with what I think my problem is with Sonya:
- The pressure game: All those mix-ups (highs/lows), military stance cancels...it's just so much to process. I'd rather take on 10 Kabals than 1 Sonya.
- What to punish her with: Is Cartwheel completely safe aside from pokes? I like to poke D+4 into the RH pressure but honestly, it's not consistently giving me the results I want. Where the hell can I punish her and what can I punish?
- What to look for and be weary of: Basically, which moves does Rain really excel at getting on her with? The RH dash cancels seem negated, all of which unless you can get in far enough to land either the 3-RHxCancel string or 4-RHxCancel string. What's my best options for making her pay?
- Pokes? Are they necessary against her? They don't seem to be and she'll seemingly beat my footsie game any day of the week. Incredible reach on her D+4 = all day free combos for her off the advantage; what the heck do I do?
- Reliability? What do you feel comfortable going in on her with. What's the general strategy here to getting a win with Rain against her? I already have frustratingly adapted to her incredible Anti-Air options after the standing 1 or 2 (I believe that's what they are. Never played as her except in Story Mode.) So I've got that and I am lead to believe that her D+3 or 4 attack in the air is pretty much nonpunishable and completely safe, so what do I do?
- Frame-traps? I'm no "tech expert" but I'd say she's got a lot more frame-traps than on initial glance. What should I be looking for and what should I do to react to some of these?
As for Sub-Zero:
- The dreaded "Turtler!": What the hell can I do besides try and Lightning check him besides EX Teleport when he's either throwing up an Ice Clone or sitting patiently behind one? Obviously, I've learned that regular Teleporting is not an option and needs to be completely forgotten about because his D+4 is pretty awesome in the fact that it seemingly grants him a free block-string or safe Clone. So, what can I do? Just get better with reading him and reacting with a Lightning check? That's great and all, but as Rain players -- I think we all know Rain's Lightning hit box is a pile of crap and is so punishable that it damn near gives you an anxiety attack throwing it out anywhere but full-screen.
- The Slide/Ice Ball Bait: I'm not so bad at this part. I can bait the Slide, even the EX Slide a lot and can get a full 37%-49% depending on how prepared I am to counter these options, however, it always seems like the life lead really is never safe even with Sub-Zero turtling and myself in solid defense against him. I mean, how hard is it to block high and react quick enough to block low when you see the Slide? That's not the hard part. It's the inconsistencies that I find with Subby to be the most challenging aspect of fighting him.
- Don't Jump!: If you didn't get the achievement, you will against Sub-Zero; at least with Rain. I still find myself using regular Teleport and EX Teleport far more often than I should be against him but that's a habit I'm trying to break for all matches since Rain has much better options to use his meter for (EX Geyser, EX Roundhouse, Shielded Dash Presses, Combo Breakers, etc.). I mean don't get me wrong, if used sparingly and conservatively; the EX Teleport will definitely cause some problems for the other player but if you get too predictable with it, you might as well throw your meter out the door. What can I do to get in far more consistently against Sub-Zero?
- His Goddamned Magnetic Jump-In Punch: Seriously, does any other player aside from maybe Smoke have that awesome of a jump-in punch or is it just me? Obviously, some characters have relatively bad jump-in punches to link into (see Kenshi or Freddy Krueger, etc.) so there's obviously some attributes to each character that we don't know about; only can be recognized through experience and trail and error. But what is it with Sub-Zero's combo? <Jump-In Punch-2-2-... or Jump-In Punch-2-1-...> (same with Smoke's 3-D1-2 combo off a jump-in)
- Closing the Game Out Against Subby: This is my biggest problem (as stated before). I have an extremely hard time getting the damage to close the match out. Maybe it's just me psyching myself out and trying a bit too hard -- possibly even 0verthinking myself. But whatever advice you can give me will be greatly appreciated.
Quick Hits:
- What beats Cyber Sub-Zero's parry? Anything at all? It really just screws me out of my RH-xCancel strings. I'm thinking Hydro Blast or Bubble but I'm a little worried to try it. I guess anything is better than eating a bar because my EX Roundhouse was countered by the Ice Parry. I'm open to suggestions but just as I was writing this; I thought to myself Bubble would definitely be my best option as I could do 28%-34% just off that. Something to think about but I'd be glad to hear what everyone else does.
ANSWER: Use either EX Teleport or try to bait it out with RH pressure then do a naked RH when you think he'll wake up with it but do a 'direct RH move cancel' into either Lightning, Bubble or EX Teleport -- all of those are viable options and can get your opponent to fear your RH strings and even going into RH stance altogether. Also, if I'm not mistaken a meaty D+4 into RH should knock him out of it but I need to test this better.
Thank you, Rain community! I still feel we have one of the most unique and varying play-styles in all of MK9.