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MK9 Tier List, September 2012

I really like this list. Only have a few questions for top players of the following chars:

- Kitana/Kung Lao: I see this MU moved back to 6-4 Kitana. I thought it was even now. IMO it has always been in Kit's favor, but I'd like to hear the reasons for the advantage from the top players.

- Reptile: I thought than Lao and Skarlet were even, but the chart says 4-6 in their favor.

- Kitana/Sub-Zero: This match is worse than 6-4 for Kit IMO. Either that or every Sub I've played online in the last month is really stupid. To me it seems that his biggest asset, the corner game, is really hurt because of her escape tool (Ass) and everywhere else she beats him.
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
I really like this list. Only have a few questions for top players of the following chars:

- Kitana/Kung Lao: I see this MU moved back to 6-4 Kitana. I thought it was even now. IMO it has always been in Kit's favor, but I'd like to hear the reasons for the advantage from the top players.


She deals well with his mobility, his best strength. It forces him to play a more methodical, footsies based game, which is playing to her strengths.
 
She deals well with his mobility, his best strength. It forces him to play a more methodical, footsies based game, which is playing to her strengths.
Any tips on punishing the teleport? This is my only problem in the MU, everything else goes smoothly.

Edit: I don't want to triple post here, so I'm just gonna edit this one. Thanks for the answers GGA 16 Bit ;)
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
- Kitana/Sub-Zero: This match is worse than 6-4 for Kit IMO. Either that or every Sub I've played online in the last month is really stupid. To me it seems that his biggest asset, the corner game, is really hurt because of her escape tool (Ass) and everywhere else she beats him.

The way Tom Brady is playing this MU lately is light years ahead of any other Sub-Zero I've ever played.
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
Any tips on punishing the teleport? This is my only problem in the MU, everything else goes smoothly.

Dash out, standing 2~fan into combo if you're doing nothing in open space and he throws it out. Uppercut or d+1 then whatever if he's using it and you're stuck blocking.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
You know more about him than me, 8-2 Cyrax.


It's -3 on block, please stop talking like it's -15 or something that Cyrax can get a full combo off of everytime its blocked.



Everyone has interruptible strings, including Cyrax,Raiden, Kabal and Kenshi to name a few examples, you're not saying anything shocking or match up changing.


The funny thing is I don't care if Stryker is the "worst character" in the game or not....I have no interest in any of it, Stryker's match up chart is getting adjustments in the proper areas soon(not Cyrax).


I've moved on from this game anyway, if you're not playing a select few characters you're in trouble most of the time anyway so whether Stryker is bottom 5, bottom 10, mid tier or whatever does not matter all that much.
"Some Fools thinks Human Skill doesn't count"
 

Death

Noob
No, you'll do what REO, THTB, and Death have all done. You'll get bored and forget about it. It will never be released. I dare you to prove me wrong.
I didn't give up. I retired and stepped away from the game. I have barely played since May and I even PM'd you all the MU charts I got from various people. I sent you REO and Detroits Kabal MU chart, MIT, Showtime reptile, 16bit, khaotik, CD kit, m2daves freddy, TOM/Denzel sub chart, morty/riu sonya and dizzy/curbo cage. I have some good info on what they told me and I passed it on to you. You originally didn't have human cyrax on your list but my list had human cyrax and when I passed to you all the info I got, I even included cyblax which you now included. You have that info so do what you want with it.
 

LaR

Noob
You know more about him than me, 8-2 Cyrax. It's not like Stryker has 40% mid screen damage, armor, a good projectile in gun shot or anything to work with at all in this match up, just standing 4 and throw, yes sir.

It's -3 on block, please stop talking like it's -15 or something that Cyrax can get a full combo off of everytime its blocked. Most characters are at slightly negative on block after their strings...what is your point?



Everyone has interruptible strings, including Cyrax,Raiden, Kabal and Kenshi to name a few examples, you're not saying anything shocking or match up changing.


The funny thing is I don't care if Stryker is the "worst character" in the game or not....I have no interest in any of it, Stryker's match up chart is getting adjustments in the proper areas soon(not Cyrax).


I've moved on from this game anyway, if you're not playing a select few characters you're in trouble most of the time anyway so whether Stryker is bottom 5, bottom 10, mid tier or whatever does not matter all that much.
Yea i know that string is -3 and that is one of the reasons it is bad because it is -3 and has no push back so you have to block after it.

The charachters you say have interruptable strings all have GOOD uninterruptable strings aswell unlike stryker who needs to land jump in punch to do an uniterruptable string.

There is absolutely no way Cyrax only has a slight advantage in this match-up. You are overrating him way to much Stryker has no frame traps and no mix ups he cant even do one of his shitty strings after a d4 hits. please tell me what he can do up close besides standind 4 or 3 ?. The only good thing about him is he has ok zoning.
 

BillStickers

Do not touch me again.
I didn't give up. I retired and stepped away from the game. I have barely played since May and I even PM'd you all the MU charts I got from various people. I sent you REO and Detroits Kabal MU chart, MIT, Showtime reptile, 16bit, khaotik, CD kit, m2daves freddy, TOM/Denzel sub chart, morty/riu sonya and dizzy/curbo cage. I have some good info on what they told me and I passed it on to you. You originally didn't have human cyrax on your list but my list had human cyrax and when I passed to you all the info I got, I even included cyblax which you now included. You have that info so do what you want with it.
Sorry, I didn't mean it as an insult to you. I was just making a point to m2dave that people have come into my tier list threads and made big claims that they're going to make their own tier lists, but never get around to it for one reason or another. Unfortunately, all of the lists you sent me were lost in the TYM crash. :/ I do appreciate you sending me that info, though.
 

Espio

Kokomo
If you know it's only -3 why are you acting like it's that big of a deal?

I've played Krayzie and other Cyrax players before and I do fine in this alleged 8-2 match up.....I'm done with this back and forth non-substantive theory fighting.

Back 1,2,2 is -2 on block with good pushback and Stryker has +1 on things like 1,2 after a gun cancel, you don't know this character as well as you seem to think aside from him having interruptible strings.


I am overrating I know, we've been over this already, I don't care.



Stryker has multiple 7-3's and loses to a large portion of the cast 4-6 , and only has two winning matches my goodness he's so overrated!!!

You folks need to learn what an 8-2 match up is.....because that is not it.
 

Rampage254

Ayy Lmao
If you know it's only -3 why are you acting like it's that big of a deal?

I've played Krayzie and other Cyrax players before and I do fine in this alleged 8-2 match up.....I'm done with this back and forth non-substantive theory fighting.

Back 1,2,2 is -2 on block with good pushback and Stryker has +1 on things like 1,2 after a gun cancel, you don't know this character as well as you seem to think aside from him having interruptible strings.


I am overrating I know, we've been over this already, I don't care.



Stryker has multiple 7-3's and loses to a large portion of the cast 4-6 , and only has two winning matches my goodness he's so overrated!!!

You folks need to learn what an 8-2 match up is.....because that is not it.
Ignore the haters, buddy. A Smoke mainer telling you about Stryker(a character he probably doesn't use) and Cyrax (A character he probably barely touches) smh
 
BillStickers

For shits and giggles, I modified your tier list to how it might look like if Kratos wasn't a banned Spartan:
Kabal ----------------197

Kenshi --------------191

Kung Lao-----------184
Sonya---------------183
Freddy -------------180
Skarlet -------------177

Smoke -------------173
Kitana --------------172
Human Cyrax ----172
Cyrax ---------------171
Jax -------------------171
Raiden --------------169
Johnny Cage ------167
Mileena -------------167
Reptile --------------166

Sektor --------------161
Liu Kang -----------161
Sub-Zero -----------156

Ermac --------------153
Shang Tsung -----152
Noob Saibot ------150
Rain -----------------150
Kratos---------------150
Sindel ---------------150
Scorpion -----------146
Nightwolf -----------145
Cyber Sub-Zero -145

Quan Chi ----------144
Jade -----------------144
Stryker -------------141
Baraka -------------141

Kano ----------------132
Sheeva -------------120

With Kratos taken into account, Smoke rises two spots up the tier list, and Ermac is a point higher than Shang Tsung.
http://testyourmight.com/threads/kratos-matchup-discussion-thread.23503/
MU chart for Kratos is in the linky.
 

Xavier Pendragon

Eternal Champion
Now, I may be laughed at for posting this, but hear me out please. I feel it's a good idea.

To be honest, I feel at the moment that the tiers don't have that much purpose, only to judge who is better than who. I also think that the tiering is too evenly spread out (4 characters with their own tier?). For this reason, I'm going to propose something that can fix both of these. My version of the tiering system.

For starters, the tier names will stay the same, and all the characters will stay the same (I would say, I agree with nearly all the placements there, apart from the ones I am biased about). But instead of just having Kabal dominate proceedings against nearly all other characters, you can arrange what tier you may use (so A+, A, B, C, D in my ranking). So let's say for example our 2 players choose B tier. Let's say our guys choose 2 B tier guys (Ermac and Shang Tsung). That's perfectly legal, both are in that tier. They fight.
But what if someone chooses Quan Chi, a C tier character vs Noob, a B tier character in a B tier fight? That's fine. They fight. You may use lower tier fighters in matches which are higher tier.
Now what if someone was to pick Rain, and someone else was to choose Kenshi in an B tier match? DQ. It doesn't matter whether so and so has the advantage, if you're using someone in the higher tiers in the lower tiers, it's simply not allowed.

Now you may be wondering, what if someone is too powerful for their tier. Let's choose Kenshi as an example again in the A Tier. Let's pretend he has 6-4 or over matchups against nearly everyone in the tier. He's too broken for the tier. How do we determine whether he is broken or not? A Suspect Discussion.

A Suspect Discussion will involve players discussing Kenshi's matchups with other A Tier Characters, along with the way Kenshi works in general. Don't talk about things you haven't tested/seen, and make sure you back up your posts with proper reasoning. That will be the most important thing there. A final verdict will be decided between both Kenshi players and non-Kenshi Players. Only experienced players will have the privilege to vote whether Kenshi should be banned from the tier or not. Not being banned will result in Kenshi staying in the tier. Being banned will result in Kenshi not being able to be in the tier anymore and he can only compete in the A+ tier (or higher, if there is one). Of course, if people think the tier has changed enough, Kenshi can be retested in the tier for a period, and once again, only experienced players may allow it to be unbanned or remain banned. Unbanned will allow Kenshi to return to A Tier, remain banned will keep Kenshi in A+. Also, if anything is struggling in a tier, it can drop down to a lower tier as well if everyone agrees.

Now for the next problem, tiers too spaced out. PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS ONLY A TEMPLATE. THIS IS NOT MY OPINION ON HOW THE TIERS SHOULD BE. PLEASE DON'T COMMENT ON HOW YOU FEEL MY TIERS HAVE WRONG CUT OFF POINTS.

A+: Kabal
A: Kenshi, Kung Lao, Sonya, Freddy Kreuger, Kitana, Human Cyrax, Smoke, Cyrax, Jax, Raiden, Johnny Cage, Reptile
B: Sektor, Liu Kang, Sub-Zero, Shang Tsung, Ermac, Noob, Rain, Sindel, Scorpion, Nightwolf, Cyber Sub-Zero
C: Quan Chi, Jade, Stryker, Baraka
D: Kano, Sheeva
Even still, I find these tiers too spaced out, but I shall refrain from changing them to avoid any complaints.
We honestly don't need as many tiers as we have now. I am sure you will probably arrange who is in what tier better than I can, but once again, this is just a template. Intial tiers will still be measured by matchups, but ONLY WITH THINGS IN THEIR TIER. What's the point of making CSZ lose a ton of points against Kabal, when he's not even in his tier. Think about it.
There is no need for an Open Tier where anything can be used as A+ fits that role perfectly. You could have a C and D tier characters fight in A Tier. Just no characters which are above the tier that you are fighting in.
Now if I get ridiculed for this, fine, I tried showing my ideology and I failed miserably for it, fine. I tried I guess. I just think the tier system needs an overhaul and it needs more of a purpose.