Match-up Discussion Lobo Matchup Discussion 2014

[Decay]

Finally had a chance to see this video and wow there was stuff I never even knew.

May I ask when you did B2U1, 1~hook charge can you make it cross up/non cross up like we previously could with B12~hook charge?

Thanks for checking it out. It will always cross up if you hit the 1 in the correct frame so so that the first hit of the hookcharge does not actually hit the opponent. If you delay for a frame or 2 and hit 1 too late, then the full animation of the hook charge will hit and you'll be on the normal side of them. There's a sweet spot you have to practice to get that crossup perfectly.

 

[Cage Redfield]

completely off topic, but this thread has been like that for the past few posts.

Why would you go for B2u1, 1 xx hook charge when you can just do the usual 50% you get from starting with b2u1 and doing the standard oki pressure?

I'd rather go for a hard-hitting combo that places the opponent in a situation that forces them to wake-up than doing a 19% combo from my strongest starter and doing a setup that can be blocked.

 

[Chaosphere]

completely off topic, but this thread has been like that for the past few posts.

Why would you go for B2u1, 1 xx hook charge when you can just do the usual 50% you get from starting with b2u1 and doing the standard oki pressure?

I'd rather go for a hard-hitting combo that places the opponent in a situation that forces them to wake-up than doing a 19% combo from my strongest starter and doing a setup that can be blocked.

Doing the same oki setup over and over again clues them in on your tendencies. I mean, I agree with you. But when you can throw something else in the mix every now and then constantly keeps them guessing. I find it easier to open up the opponent when they dont know your rhythm. Changing up the intervals in which you're forcing them to have to think is always a good thing.

You can still do tick throws when they block. And plenty of people wait for me to use my meter after b2u1 hits before they clash. And then there's swag... maybe?

 

[Decay]

completely off topic, but this thread has been like that for the past few posts.

Why would you go for B2u1, 1 xx hook charge when you can just do the usual 50% you get from starting with b2u1 and doing the standard oki pressure?

I'd rather go for a hard-hitting combo that places the opponent in a situation that forces them to wake-up than doing a 19% combo from my strongest starter and doing a setup that can be blocked.

I'd say you're right in most circumstances, but sometimes I'll do it in the second health bar when I think they will clash. If they clash, well I didn't spend any meter and if they don't clash, you got them in a hard knock down looking like you're facing them when you are actually behind them. Now they'd have to reverse the input for the wake-up they want. If they either try to block or wake up wrong, you can just go for a grab into unclashable damage for only 1 bar total. It's fancy and not always worth it but it sure as Hell messes with people's minds when they're on the floor

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

B2U1 1 xx hook charge is cool but there's no reason to do it. You lose WAY too much damage. If you land the oki setup afterwards you gain like 10-15% damage overall, but if you don't you lose like 30% damage overall.

 

[Chaosphere]

Do you guys ever have issues after ending a combo with hook charge, then when you go for the toss they are somehow out of range? Am I mistiming the toss?

 

[Captain Oxygen]

Hook Charge gives you varying levels of okizeme depending on how it hit, I believe if you only hit them with the 2nd hit they go farther and are knocked down longer.
It's always a hard knockdown unless only the first part hits then and the 2nd part whiffs.

 

[FGC-Oni]

Honestly at this point, I'm done I'll still be on the forum here and there but I'm just gonna play casually. I'll share my experiences but I just don't have the funds to compete and all that. I'm basically just gonna agree with everyones stuff unless it's blatantly flawed or ridiculous.

 

[Chaosphere]

B2U1 1 xx hook charge is cool but there's no reason to do it. You lose WAY too much damage. If you land the oki setup afterwards you gain like 10-15% damage overall, but if you don't you lose like 30% damage overall.

What about using the ambiguous cross up j2 setup to fish for a huge f21~mb b3 combo? Especially against characters that Lobo doesn't have a consistent option after hook charge to blow up their wakeups? I'm thinking like... doomsday, hawkgirl, etc.

Just throwing out ideas. What do you think?

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

What about using the ambiguous cross up j2 setup to fish for a huge f21~mb b3 combo? Especially against characters that Lobo doesn't have a consistent option after hook charge to blow up their wakeups? I'm thinking like... doomsday, hawkgirl, etc.

Just throwing out ideas. What do you think?

As much as I like the setup too, I still can't figure out how it's worth it. I messed with it a lot because I liked cage's B12 xx mb hook charge setup before it got taken away.

I mean you can do a 51% B2U1 combo into a hook charge, which gives you a 50/50 with meaty command grab, which gives you 39%. That's 51 if you don't get the mixup, 90% if you do.

Or you can do the 19% setup, into an ambiguous crossup that does what, like 56% or something? I'm not too familiar with optimal 3 bar BnBs. So if the mixup doesn't hit you get 19%, if it does you get like 80ish%



If only we could find a better way to end in that crossup charge...

 

[Chaosphere]

As much as I like the setup too, I still can't figure out how it's worth it. I messed with it a lot because I liked cage's B12 xx mb hook charge setup before it got taken away.

I mean you can do a 51% B2U1 combo into a hook charge, which gives you a 50/50 with meaty command grab, which gives you 39%. That's 51 if you don't get the mixup, 90% if you do.

Or you can do the 19% setup, into an ambiguous crossup that does what, like 56% or something? I'm not too familiar with optimal 3 bar BnBs. So if the mixup doesn't hit you get 19%, if it does you get like 80ish%



If only we could find a better way to end in that crossup charge...

With trait, 3 bars gets you 70% or so. Depending on the starter it can be 66ish to 73ish.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

With trait, 3 bars gets you 70% or so. Depending on the starter it can be 66ish to 73ish.

Well with trait the original b2 combo does I think 56% and then the followup command grab mixup would be 43%.

You're still going to get less damage overall for one more bar of meter, and less of that damage is guaranteed.

 

[Chaosphere]

Well with trait the original b2 combo does I think 56% and then the followup command grab mixup would be 43%.

You're still going to get less damage overall for one more bar of meter, and less of that damage is guaranteed.

Yeah. I've seen the light, which I have been denying. I give up.

 

[Cage Redfield]

So I think I might be wrong about the hawkgirl matchup. Here me out guys, this might be in our favor now.

Whenever you connect a hook charge, whether it be raw or at the end of a combo (might not be known, but the advantage changes on hook charge if it hit raw or in the middle of a combo. I'm working on the timing for the mid-combo charge, so it might not work. It seems possible tho), you can stuff both wake-up mace charge and wing evade. Wing Evade gets stuffed before she's able to do one of her follow-ups. This trains her to basically never wake-up after we open her up, which leads to meaty shenanigans. The timing for stuffing her wakeups from a raw hook charge is easy, just wait for her body to stop sliding against the floor. And for mid-combo charge, you just do it as soon as you recover from hook charge.

And from low hook, if you do a neutral jump 1, it stuffs her mace charge and trades with wing evade 3. The neutral jump is pretty much safe considering she cannot trip guard you from that distance without putting herself in danger via mace charging. She may trade with us after wing evade 3, but it's pretty whatever. The reward she gets for doing that is 10% and we're both at full screen as opposed to our 45%+ combo with a safe trait load and we're in front of her again.

As for why this changes the matchup (imo): One of the things about Hawkgirl's wake-ups is that they change the momentum so much. Blocking a mace charge/mb mace charge means you're either in neutral or you're eating a lot of chip and you'll have to respect her for a period of time. Making her scared to do those wake-ups makes it really easy to abuse her, and that's always good. This is especially good for us because hook charge and low hook are arguably two of our most important tools.

tl;dr: stuff her wake-ups with hook charge. The timing from a raw hook charge is easy; input after she stops sliding against the floor. I'll edit my post with the timing for mid-combo hook charge. From low hook (DON'T MB IT, IT PUTS YOU CLOSER ON HIT), do neutral j1.

EDIT: Before someone shits on me, I haven't played a dedicated hawkgirl main to see if this matters at all in the matchup. I played Brad in a very short set against his Hawkgirl, who he plays on the side. So this could all mean nothing and the matchup can still be considered 5-5. But hey, optimism.

 

[Yoaks]

So I think I might be wrong about the hawkgirl matchup. Here me out guys, this might be in our favor now.

Whenever you connect a hook charge, whether it be raw or at the end of a combo (might not be known, but the advantage changes on hook charge if it hit raw or in the middle of a combo. I'm working on the timing for the mid-combo charge, so it might not work. It seems possible tho), you can stuff both wake-up mace charge and wing evade. Wing Evade gets stuffed before she's able to do one of her follow-ups. This trains her to basically never wake-up after we open her up, which leads to meaty shenanigans. The timing for stuffing her wakeups from a raw hook charge is easy, just wait for her body to stop sliding against the floor. And for mid-combo charge, you just do it as soon as you recover from hook charge.

And from low hook, if you do a neutral jump 1, it stuffs her mace charge and trades with wing evade 3. The neutral jump is pretty much safe considering she cannot trip guard you from that distance without putting herself in danger via mace charging. She may trade with us after wing evade 3, but it's pretty whatever. The reward she gets for doing that is 10% and we're both at full screen as opposed to our 45%+ combo with a safe trait load and we're in front of her again.

As for why this changes the matchup (imo): One of the things about Hawkgirl's wake-ups is that they change the momentum so much. Blocking a mace charge/mb mace charge means you're either in neutral or you're eating a lot of chip and you'll have to respect her for a period of time. Making her scared to do those wake-ups makes it really easy to abuse her, and that's always good. This is especially good for us because hook charge and low hook are arguably two of our most important tools.

tl;dr: stuff her wake-ups with hook charge. The timing from a raw hook charge is easy; input after she stops sliding against the floor. I'll edit my post with the timing for mid-combo hook charge. From low hook (DON'T MB IT, IT PUTS YOU CLOSER ON HIT), do neutral j1.

EDIT: Before someone shits on me, I haven't played a dedicated hawkgirl main to see if this matters at all in the matchup. I played Brad in a very short set against his Hawkgirl, who he plays on the side. So this could all mean nothing and the matchup can still be considered 5-5. But hey, optimism.

Same thing with Green Arrow's Savage Blast wake up. Just do the same thing with Hawkgirls wake up Mace Charge. I posting this because Green arrow is hella annoying for me.

 

[kaseyk]

So I think I might be wrong about the hawkgirl matchup. Here me out guys, this might be in our favor now.

Whenever you connect a hook charge, whether it be raw or at the end of a combo (might not be known, but the advantage changes on hook charge if it hit raw or in the middle of a combo. I'm working on the timing for the mid-combo charge, so it might not work. It seems possible tho), you can stuff both wake-up mace charge and wing evade. Wing Evade gets stuffed before she's able to do one of her follow-ups. This trains her to basically never wake-up after we open her up, which leads to meaty shenanigans. The timing for stuffing her wakeups from a raw hook charge is easy, just wait for her body to stop sliding against the floor. And for mid-combo charge, you just do it as soon as you recover from hook charge.

And from low hook, if you do a neutral jump 1, it stuffs her mace charge and trades with wing evade 3. The neutral jump is pretty much safe considering she cannot trip guard you from that distance without putting herself in danger via mace charging. She may trade with us after wing evade 3, but it's pretty whatever. The reward she gets for doing that is 10% and we're both at full screen as opposed to our 45%+ combo with a safe trait load and we're in front of her again.

As for why this changes the matchup (imo): One of the things about Hawkgirl's wake-ups is that they change the momentum so much. Blocking a mace charge/mb mace charge means you're either in neutral or you're eating a lot of chip and you'll have to respect her for a period of time. Making her scared to do those wake-ups makes it really easy to abuse her, and that's always good. This is especially good for us because hook charge and low hook are arguably two of our most important tools.

tl;dr: stuff her wake-ups with hook charge. The timing from a raw hook charge is easy; input after she stops sliding against the floor. I'll edit my post with the timing for mid-combo hook charge. From low hook (DON'T MB IT, IT PUTS YOU CLOSER ON HIT), do neutral j1.

EDIT: Before someone shits on me, I haven't played a dedicated hawkgirl main to see if this matters at all in the matchup. I played Brad in a very short set against his Hawkgirl, who he plays on the side. So this could all mean nothing and the matchup can still be considered 5-5. But hey, optimism.

i'm hg purist would be happy to run sets with a good lobo psn tag kcgostkc

 

[JustPressingButtons]

i'm hg purist would be happy to run sets with a good lobo psn tag kcgostkc

Who are the good lobos?

 

[Captain Oxygen]

Want some opinions on some matchups. I still think lobo beats aquaman but a lot of people tell me otherwise.

Also, Im really unsure about the flash matchup, I think it's probably 5.5 -4.5 flash favour. It feels like I have to make more right guesses.

And bane, I lost 3-0 vs biohazards bane ECT. It's so hard to run away cause lobos backdash is garbo. And when hes on debufd its hard to get in cause he just d1's my dash and d2s my slow jump. And he can just push block mb hook charge.

Maybe I just suck v. Bane and get really lucky vs all aquas I've ever played

 

[KH StarCharger]

Man this Character is fun as shit and the fact that he covers all of CW's bad MU's makes it even better. But I have to disagree with him being posted at an advantage against her. It means something to main both of those characters (Although CW will always be my #1) to have an opinion on that battle and CW more than holds her own against Lobo.

 

[Yoaks]

I played @Syknis the other day and he convinced me its 5-5. Or maybe he's just better than me and it is 6-4. But it didn't feel like it. Flash i think it's even but Bane.....uuuggghhh. This mu just sucks. His wakeup's are better. His oki is better. Armor. The Lucadore skin. He has the advantage I think.
@BiPolarExxpress @Wetdoba @Doombawkz @AK coolcmcgee @GGA Max . What do you guy's think about the Lobo mu?

 

[Captain Oxygen]

Yeah I played Astronouts cw some and its pretty even. He has to respect j2 and cat dash, He can't trait in neutral or zone. I think lobo has slight advantage cuz damage though

 

[KH StarCharger]

I played @Syknis the other day and he convinced me its 5-5. Or maybe he's just better than me and it is 6-4. But it didn't feel like it. Flash i think it's even but Bane.....uuuggghhh. This mu just sucks. His wakeup's are better. His oki is better. Armor. The Lucadore skin. He has the advantage I think.
@BiPolarExxpress @Wetdoba @Doombawkz @AK coolcmcgee @GGA Max . What do you guy's think about the Lobo mu?

Personally I felt this MU was in Lobo's control if he had a lead and had Nuke shells loaded. Or with the shells loaded period especially while Bane is in Debuff. OUCH if he gets hit with both in debuff!

 

[Captain Oxygen]

People tell me lobos nuke shells are op vs bane but in debuff he has no reason to get hit with em full screen?

 

[Decay]

I just played @Syknis and the games were incredibly close. I honestly think the match up is 5:5. Def not in lobo's favor. But it felt pretty even. CW matchup I feel can possibly be in cw's favor because you can't standing 3 her jump in and when she's crouching, sometimes you can't jump 2 cross up. I dunno really but I hate it.
Here's a question, what do you feel about doomsday matchup? I feel like I have no options, no oki, no nothing. Blocking earth shaker in the corner can only get you so far. Is he annoying for everyone?

 

[Decay]

People tell me lobos nuke shells are op vs bane but in debuff he has no reason to get hit with em full screen?

Lobo/bane.. What I like about it is that lobos combos last so long that they can tick away at banes venom trait and then finish in time for debuff. But when he's venomed up, he can get past all your spacing and footsies easily, then in the corner you might as well put your controller down