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Let's talk about Mids

stamatis

stamatis

Όσα δε φτάνει η αλεπού. ........
OK then,as the title says I would like to start a discussion about mids.
Whatever I am about to write below is my opinion, I would like to Participate or even correct me if you think the opposite.
Mid is the best normal in the game,everything starts with that move.
It may not be the fastest move but it is the one that your opponent has to respect,especially when it is your combo starter.
Now let me explain why I think it is the most important move in the game by mentioning a few examples.
When you perform a move that is -6 or(4,5,7)what are your options after that?the book says you have to block,but will you block if your opponent's basic move is a high normal?maybe not,maybe you will risk a poke to interrupt his next move and take the advantage even if a moment ago you were the one who was - on block.
But you would never do that against a char that he has a 9 frame mid.Another example is what would you do if you were in the corner?You could get up with a d3 just because the char that has knocked you down does not a have a good mid.You could, but again not against a char with a good mid.
You may think "so what?" but situations like them can take place multiple times during a match.
After a year I believe that this move determines everything and is a good reason to pick a char or drop him.
Tell me what you think.
 
stamatis

stamatis

Όσα δε φτάνει η αλεπού. ........
omooba said:
exactly why i belive raiden is the best character in the game. he has an 8 frame mid!!!!!!!
oh wait it whiffs 90% of the time nvm
mids are still awesome though
Click to expand...
@Nivek told me it has been fixed since the beta release.
 
Osagri

Osagri

Fear the blade of Osh-Tekk
This is so true. I have been playing tremor lately and it definitely hits u hard coz only thing that is not good in this char is he's lack of good mid. I think he's fastest mid is like 14 or 16 frames. Every time it should be my turn, I just eat d1,d4 etc.
 
stamatis

stamatis

Όσα δε φτάνει η αλεπού. ........
Osagri said:
This is so true. I have been playing tremor lately and it definitely hits u hard coz only thing that is not good in this char is he's lack of good mid. I think he's fastest mid is like 14 or 16 frames. Every time it should be my turn, I just eat d1,d4 etc.
Click to expand...
I think that when a char has a good mid,he needs to guess less than a char that hasn't one.
 
TwiztidOne

TwiztidOne

I don't know who that is...
mids are definitely good for checking people but I wouldn't say they're the most important moves in the game. fast lows like shinnoks are just as good because they can be used in any situation mids can while also adding a mixup element. same with over heads, they're really good at checking people while also adding a mixup
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
not every character plays the frame trap the exact same way, it depends on what other tools this same character can use in his advantage after being minus, you know that such possibility exists is what makes it a frame trap.

For example, hat trick b22~hat trap is -5, he can be poked out if he tries to do another attack by a d1, but if he blocks he is plus again allowing him to apply pressure afterwards.

You knowing this might give you a different perspective and maybe you want to apply pressure with a real normal which grants you more reward,if he backdashes after the trap and you go for it, you're wide open for a whiff punish.
You not doing anything after the trap leaves the mental pressure and makes you doubt yourself when or when not to press buttons which makes him plus to apply pressure even if he is at minus -5 for using a mid or overhead.


Scorpion on the other hand in ninjutsu he is able to poke you with standing 1 often without you pressing a single button to reply while he walks in and out.

That is because his f2 poses a mental threat along with his walk speed which allows him to throw a special high on your guard to tickle your patience, if you think he is going in and press a button inside f2 range you will get punished, if you don't you risk getting grabbed, and his standing 1 is only +2 on block.

So having an attack that is minus not always depends of having good mids, but how the tools can be used when said character is minus, it will depend if it poses a threat while he is minus or not.
 
A F0xy Grampa

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
Eddy Wang said:
not every character plays the frame trap the exact same way, it depends on what other tools this same character can use in his advantage after being minus, you know that such possibility exists is what makes it a frame trap.

For example, hat trick b22~hat trap is -5, he can be poked out if he tries to do another attack by a d1, but if he blocks he is plus again allowing him to apply pressure afterwards.

You knowing this might give you a different perspective and maybe you want to apply pressure with a real normal which grants you more reward,if he backdashes after the trap and you go for it, you're wide open for a whiff punish.
You not doing anything after the trap leaves the mental pressure and makes you doubt yourself when or when not to press buttons which makes him plus to apply pressure even if he is at minus -5 for using a mid or overhead.


Scorpion on the other hand in ninjutsu he is able to poke you with standing 1 often without you pressing a single button to reply while he walks in and out.

That is because his f2 poses a mental threat along with his walk speed which allows him to throw a special high on your guard to tickle your patience, if you think he is going in and press a button inside f2 range you will get punished, if you don't you risk getting grabbed, and his standing 1 is only +2 on block.

So having an attack that is minus not always depends of having good mids, but how the tools can be used when said character is minus, it will depend if it poses a threat while he is minus or not.
Click to expand...
Kung Lao is a serious victim to good or even average mids, his frame data is perfect to force him to hold a majority of the casts mids, especially in hat trick, there is no mind game behind him being -3 or -5. If the opponent has an 11f mid, he's got to hold it.

This is why hat trick is the ultimate gimmick variation, any time you see string -> hat trap -> button press, it's a gimmick and the Lao player should've eaten a bnb combo.
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
A F0xy Grampa said:
Kung Lao is a serious victim to good or even average mids, his frame data is perfect to force him to hold a majority of the casts mids, especially in hat trick, there is no mind game behind him being -3 or -5. If the opponent has an 11f mid, he's got to hold it.

This is why hat trick is the ultimate gimmick variation, any time you see string -> hat trap -> button press, it's a gimmick and the Lao player should've eaten a bnb combo.
Click to expand...
True, The actual state of hat trick doesn't allow him to setup traps unless he connects a hit or a knockdown, but to some extent, the game is still there, if the 11f mids can catch his backdash then he has to hold it for sure.

But aren't you able to win such trades with d4~hat trap afterwards when he is at -5? Unless of course they're trying to hit it out on the very first available frame to retaliate.
 
God Confirm

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
A F0xy Grampa said:
Kung Lao is a serious victim to good or even average mids, his frame data is perfect to force him to hold a majority of the casts mids, especially in hat trick, there is no mind game behind him being -3 or -5. If the opponent has an 11f mid, he's got to hold it.

This is why hat trick is the ultimate gimmick variation, any time you see string -> hat trap -> button press, it's a gimmick and the Lao player should've eaten a bnb combo.
Click to expand...
On the flipside of the coin, if you Mid into a blocking Hat Trick, unless you are someone who can make it plus, chances are you are holding 112124 ex Hatcall 112124 Trap back out again, so that mid is a pretty unhealthy trade every time he doesn't press the button. As per usual, there is no way it's as one-sided as you saying.
 
A F0xy Grampa

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
God Confirm said:
On the flipside of the coin, if you Mid into a blocking Hat Trick, unless you are someone who can make it plus, chances are you are holding 112124 ex Hatcall 112124 Trap back out again, so that mid is a pretty unhealthy trade every time he doesn't press the button. As per usual, there is no way it's as one-sided as you saying.
Click to expand...
Mileena b12
Cage F3
Jax F2
Liu B1
Kitana B1
Kotal b1 (even though it's -2 he's still essentially neutral against Lao)
Dvorah F1

There's plenty of mids that don't lose the character their turn

It's pretty one sided, the only reason people lose to hat trick is either slow reactions or lack of knowledge.
 
stamatis

stamatis

Όσα δε φτάνει η αλεπού. ........
A F0xy Grampa said:
Kung Lao is a serious victim to good or even average mids, his frame data is perfect to force him to hold a majority of the casts mids, especially in hat trick, there is no mind game behind him being -3 or -5. If the opponent has an 11f mid, he's got to hold it.

This is why hat trick is the ultimate gimmick variation, any time you see string -> hat trap -> button press, it's a gimmick and the Lao player should've eaten a bnb combo.
Click to expand...
during your matches i always wonder why the opponent do not get up with a poke,since you always start your pressure with a high.
 
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