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Kung Lao Competitive Discussion

DixieFlatline78

Everyone Has A Path
What's the counter for his f13 auto stagger into hat spin? There's no flawless block gap or anything? Do you just have to take it? How do you punish f13:?
When you say Hat Spin do you mean the launcher, Orbiting Hat, or Hat Toss?

Orbiting hat is -7 so you can only d1 it. Hat Toss is like -22, Spin is -6000

F13 has a weird punish window. You have to do it a bit earlier than you think. Try it out in practice mode, I laugh out loud every time I get away with F13 on block
 

HiddenSelectCounterPick

Crossplay Username: ProbablyMinus
I'm really trying to figure this out but in the tutorial it tells you that his df1 is a great AA with fast start up but I can never punish a jump in. Are you all AAing with df1? I get punished all the time and they tell me to stop pushing buttons. Is 12f really an AA???:(
 
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YoungTeezy 305

Work Hard Play Hard
I'm really trying to figure this out but in the tutorial it tells you that his df1 is a great AA with fast start up but I can never punish a jump in. Are you all AAing with df1? I get punished all the time and they tell me to stop pushing buttons. Is 12f really an AA???:(
It's only good when they are right on you like a neutral jump. From jump distance I use stand 1 and it works perfectly.
 

HiddenSelectCounterPick

Crossplay Username: ProbablyMinus
Here is another it was my Bday and I won 5 Kombat League sets in a row against some scorps. I was feeling myself so ignore the bags it was my Bday I had some drinks.

 

HiddenSelectCounterPick

Crossplay Username: ProbablyMinus
Anyone still playing Lao?

After watching Foxy at CEO, lets be real; you cant rely on just doing safe strings he could've won that last set if he played a little more risky he has longer normals than (f1) (d3) (f4) . Too many gimmicks grabing constantly getting punished.

I am hopeful that the next patch will make him safer on strings even more so making his tele less startup and active frames. Banking on tele 1 being mid and jailing he really has nothing else that i would change besides 121 and 122 converting into spin w/o meter.
 

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
Anyone still playing Lao?

After watching Foxy at CEO, lets be real; you cant rely on just doing safe strings he could've won that last set if he played a little more risky he has longer normals than (f1) (d3) (f4) . Too many gimmicks grabing constantly getting punished.

I am hopeful that the next patch will make him safer on strings even more so making his tele less startup and active frames. Banking on tele 1 being mid and jailing he really has nothing else that i would change besides 121 and 122 converting into spin w/o meter.
So getting third place is not good enough in a major with 600 entrants. BUFF LAO
 

DixieFlatline78

Everyone Has A Path
Anyone still playing Lao?

After watching Foxy at CEO, lets be real; you cant rely on just doing safe strings he could've won that last set if he played a little more risky he has longer normals than (f1) (d3) (f4) . Too many gimmicks grabing constantly getting punished.

I am hopeful that the next patch will make him safer on strings even more so making his tele less startup and active frames. Banking on tele 1 being mid and jailing he really has nothing else that i would change besides 121 and 122 converting into spin w/o meter.
Foxy is great but he kept falling into the same issue without adapting. He would F4 and then challenge on block and get blown up for it. While I appreciate that he keeps his gameplan super simple, he could have used a few more strings and specials. Third place is nothing to sneeze at but Dragon and Sonic didnt fall for any of it. Dragon had a similar issue in Grand Finals. Hed block a mid, D4, and then try and escape on block. He also didnt tech a single throw or attempt any wakeups, even tho he was getting meatied constantly.

Tele 1 is just another element to the Teleport mixup. It's best for catching people jumping away and picking up a combo. His teleport kinda sucks and I just want it to be faster to punish projectiles, but it's very usable with the right setup
 

HiddenSelectCounterPick

Crossplay Username: ProbablyMinus
Thats what i mean like he grabed or d3'd or f4 on block without following up its to gimmicky, not much depth should use the longer range strings sometimes after a blocked z hat because they know a grab is coming, to catch them that is.

I never catch anyone trying to get away from tele i usually get d1'd into full combo or d2kb for full combo its just to slow to want to use.
 

DixieFlatline78

Everyone Has A Path
Thats what i mean like he grabed or d3'd or f4 on block without following up its too gimmicky, not much depth should use the longer range strings sometimes after a blocked z hat because they know a grab is coming, to catch them that is.

I never catch anyone trying to get away from tele i usually get d1'd into full combo or d2kb for full combo its just too slow to want to use.
You have to condition them with amp teleport but a lot of people will just mash d1 until you come out so it's really only good in a setup. It's not great in neutral unless you're punishing a projectile on read
 
Is anyone else triggered by Foxy's open refusal to utilize f1? I can't knock a guy who's thus far the only Lao doing anything with the char at a tournament level (3rd place is hella impressive), but Jesus. I'm actually blown away he does as well as he does considering. No, f12 is not confirmable but it's a decent stagger, safe on block, and you can condition people to respect the followup and hold the f1 way more than f4, which in offline play you have no legitimate claim to stealing your turn back after anyway.
 

DixieFlatline78

Everyone Has A Path
It's hard to condition that in a FT2 unfortunately.
Yeah and that's why FT2 sucks so bad. You don't get the full scope of a player's strengths. Its why many people have made Tekken tier lists for Tournaments and Death Matches

But KL can still play solid without it. Once you've developed your gameplan to rotate all of his options in all situations, he can really shut down peoples defensive and offensive options
 
Is anyone else triggered by Foxy's open refusal to utilize f1? I can't knock a guy who's thus far the only Lao doing anything with the char at a tournament level (3rd place is hella impressive), but Jesus. I'm actually blown away he does as well as he does considering. No, f12 is not confirmable but it's a decent stagger, safe on block, and you can condition people to respect the followup and hold the f1 way more than f4, which in offline play you have no legitimate claim to stealing your turn back after anyway.
i played him in a very long set online and the only time he ever did f1 was to convert of z hat hitting when they jump. im not sure why to be honest.
 
i played him in a very long set online and the only time he ever did f1 was to convert of z hat hitting when they jump. im not sure why to be honest.
I've talked to him in streams and he's outright said he consciously doesn't use it because it's not hit confirmable. It's hard to argue with his success, but I can't help but wonder if he'd be better off implementing it into his game. I haven't seen his CEO top 8 matches yet but people were saying he started getting blown up for all the throw attempts. I feel like F1 would allow him to pressure with something beyond just raw f3 / throw mix. What do I know tho. Clearly keeping Lao as bare bones as possible is something separating him and his success from random yolo point blank back jumping dive kick goofballs online. Online Laos are straight up the most wild sh*t I've ever seen.
 

HiddenSelectCounterPick

Crossplay Username: ProbablyMinus
How viable do you all think F1~ B32 as a stager to complement F12~.

F1 is -5 on block and the full string is -7 on block
B32 is -7 on block if you complete the string B321 you're -4. Possibly follow up with d3 into another f1/f12??
F1 stagger into F12 or
F1~b32-d3~f1 or f12 possibly get a hit ‍♂

Thoughts, im at work im just thinking.
 

DixieFlatline78

Everyone Has A Path
I'd say no. B3 has like a 16 frame startup leaving a 21 frame window. At higher levels people will blow up F1, F1 with a jab starter. It may work sometimes but not reliably

I'd say D3 is a good compliment to low profile jab attempts and get them to expect it so you can throw or even jail them into 21212

Imo, the stagger pressure for KL is best for being annoying, harassing them, pushing them to the corner, getting knockdowns, and punishing wakeups. You dont get much damage on F12 but you get corner carry and a knockdown and you have enough time to dash up and pressure them or punish a wakeup.
 
I've talked to him in streams and he's outright said he consciously doesn't use it because it's not hit confirmable. It's hard to argue with his success, but I can't help but wonder if he'd be better off implementing it into his game. I haven't seen his CEO top 8 matches yet but people were saying he started getting blown up for all the throw attempts. I feel like F1 would allow him to pressure with something beyond just raw f3 / throw mix. What do I know tho. Clearly keeping Lao as bare bones as possible is something separating him and his success from random yolo point blank back jumping dive kick goofballs online. Online Laos are straight up the most wild sh*t I've ever seen.
This makes sense now and I’ll tell you why. At a high level the game is fairly easy. Either I throw or I don’t. He is keeping it simple btw the double kick normal and throw. If the kick hits he does insane damage bc its confirmable I like one hit from the f1.
 
This makes sense now and I’ll tell you why. At a high level the game is fairly easy. Either I throw or I don’t. He is keeping it simple btw the double kick normal and throw. If the kick hits he does insane damage bc its confirmable I like one hit from the f1.
Yeah, I asked Ketchup what his thoughts were in his stream just now and he made a good point: d3 for Lao accomplishes everything you'd want to accomplish with it anyway. I forgot how broken that move is, I was only thinking in terms of the f4 alternative, but d3 is like 7f startup, plus a million on hit and everything else.
 

DixieFlatline78

Everyone Has A Path
I don't think D3 makes F1 obsolete by any means tho. I mean if they block D3 theres nothing you can really do other than canceling into spin. With F1 you can threaten with F12 which opens up other things you can do on block. Plus dash up F1 is a good engagement tool to rotate with all your other neutral options when you've made them afraid to use projectiles or whatever.

The real shit tho is F4 on Block, Flawless Block U2