Match-up Discussion Kitana Matchup Discussion Thread

[xKhaoTik]

I'd still say that KL is 5.5 in Kits favor. It is nowhere near as bad as everyone thought initially. KL has many ways to shut her down, he just has to not ever make a mistake or he loses 50%.

I don't know about Kabal though... Kitana's 2 beats all of his wakeup options (even ex nomad) and trades with wakeup saw. I'd only say she loses 4.5-5.5 or goes even with him.

Yea man I agree. I get annoyed when people say the kit v Lao MU is even lol. Kitana shuts Lao down just as bad as he shuts her down, but he has to be extra careful in this MU, or he's eating big damage. Teleport gets blown up, low hat gets blown up, roll gets blown up, dive kick gets blown up, idk..I don't see how it could be 5-5.

And I agree with your statement with Kabal. But then again, I haven't fought reo yet so idk. Best Kabal I've fought is Detroit and i was able to hang with him. 2 works wonders in that MU. I also use EN Fan Toss if Kabal players get too iagb happy

 

[Mr. Mileena]

Thanks guys, but yeah, i just wanted to rid of the .5's, and rounded it in the most reasonable favor.

As far as bad matchups, Freddy keeps her out very well, and can escape when timed right, we all know this is bad
Kenshi as well, but it isnt as drastically bad as it is made.

Kabal could be a 5-5, CD plays the matchup beautifully, but i'll leave it as 4-6 for now

Sonya on the other hand, is a stupid blonde big boob bimbo. She's stupid safe on everything, can keep up a fundamental game with kitty, and is not as easy as some people make it seem.

As for the other matchups, some may be annoying/ a bit difficult, but kitana can manage her own game in each of the other 5-5's or in her favor match ups.|

Those 4 in my opinion are the 4 who give her trouble that can make a Kitana player sweat and really work for their win.

 

[xSMoKEx]

Sonya on the other hand, is a stupid blonde big boob bimbo. She's stupid safe on everything, can keep up a fundamental game with kitty, and is not as easy as some people make it seem.

Couldn't have said it any better!!!

 

[VIDA]

I'd still say that KL is 5.5 in Kits favor. It is nowhere near as bad as everyone thought initially. KL has many ways to shut her down, he just has to not ever make a mistake or he loses 50%.

I don't know about Kabal though... Kitana's 2 beats all of his wakeup options (even ex nomad) and trades with wakeup saw. I'd only say she loses 4.5-5.5 or goes even with him.

Wow 2 beats even ex nomad??!! Wow me and NeoRussel starting noticing that cutter troubled or even shutdown most of his wakeups and even specials from neutral but ex nomad still could give problems. Knowing about this feels awesome!!

 

[RTM2004]

Sonya on the other hand, is a stupid blonde big boob bimbo. She's stupid safe on everything, can keep up a fundamental game with kitty, and is not as easy as some people make it seem.

Those 4 in my opinion are the 4 who give her trouble that can make a Kitana player sweat and really work for their win.

LOL I'm surprised you never picked up Sonya (?) since you play Kitana and Sindel both beautifully, used Mileena and now the beloved <3 Jade for your next tournament. Not sure if you use Sheeva and Skarlet either.

Fighting a tough Sonya player with Kitana is a huge pain! I used Kitana against AU BRICE, MK9 ULTRA GOD, F0xy Grampa, CURBOLICOUS many months ago awhile back. It's so difficult to try to fan spam Sonya when she gets in. Seriously Sonya's standing 1 jab and D4 can catch Kitana's Air Fan right before lands on the ground into a MS reset. Also Kitana's offense by throwing out F2,1 2,1 or D1 if whiffed Sonya Dive Kick combo start that or even armor Ex Cartwheel combo. Kitana can't even Ass Away safely, Sonya can Dive Kick her upon landing. Not to mention that Sonya can outzone Kitana on knockdown with her fast Pink Rings. Sonya has EVERYTHING, she is so dirty XD

 

[M2Dave]

As far as bad matchups, Freddy keeps her out very well, and can escape when timed right, we all know this is bad.

After getting eliminated by Crazy Dominican's Kitana at MLG, I'm not convinced that the match up is necessarily bad for Kitana. I think Kitana has a large advantage in footsies, so instead of tossing fans that lead to absolutely nothing, Kitana players should approach mid range and press their advantage in footsies. Fight Freddy like you would fight Smoke. I would not toss fans at any moment. I guess you could toss a couple of them while jumping forward to mess with Freddy's AA timing.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

After getting eliminated by Crazy Dominican's Kitana at MLG, I'm not convinced that the match up is necessarily bad for Kitana. I think Kitana has a large advantage in footsies, so instead of tossing fans that lead to absolutely nothing, Kitana players should approach mid range and press their advantage in footsies. Fight Freddy like you would fight Smoke. I would not toss fans at any moment. I guess you could toss a couple of them while jumping forward to mess with Freddy's AA timing.

but thats CD, he is a GOD lol

 

[xKhaoTik]

After getting eliminated by Crazy Dominican's Kitana at MLG, I'm not convinced that the match up is necessarily bad for Kitana. I think Kitana has a large advantage in footsies, so instead of tossing fans that lead to absolutely nothing, Kitana players should approach mid range and press their advantage in footsies. Fight Freddy like you would fight Smoke. I would not toss fans at any moment. I guess you could toss a couple of them while jumping forward to mess with Freddy's AA timing.

Yea I fight Freddy as if I'm fighting smoke. I honestly don't feel like this is necessarily a bad match for kit either. I would even go as far to say the MU is 5-5. That match feels life lead based and her footsies kills him. We should fight again, Dave.

 

[rev0lver]

I like Mr Mileena's list, mainly because it's devoid of .5's, lol. Sonya I agree with. We've gotten to a point now where fans aren't a big deal and Sonya can come in and just not give a shit. Also, I do agree with Mr Mileena on Freddy. Apparently CD's Freddy is looking pretty tough.... supposedly better than m2dave's .

But 3 issues I have:
- I agree with Konqrr in that Kitana still beats Kung Lao. I'd still leave it at 6-4 Kit, but that's just me
- There's so much disagreement in the community with everything Quan Chi. If he doesn't have meter, it's 6-4 Kitana. If he has meter, it's 6-4 Quan. Honestly I'd just leave it as 5-5. It's just too difficult to actually measure the rune trap factor.
- I don't exactly understand 7-3 on Sindel... Sindel already has an advantage in the projectile war. Anything else I just don't see enough to justify that kind of number. I don't see how she can be worse than Noob here, as well as the Kitana-Kenshi matchup.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

I like Mr Mileena's list, mainly because it's devoid of .5's, lol. Sonya I agree with. We've gotten to a point now where fans aren't a big deal and Sonya can come in and just not give a shit. Also, I do agree with Mr Mileena on Freddy. Apparently CD's Freddy is looking pretty tough.... supposedly better than m2dave's .

But 3 issues I have:
- I agree with Konqrr in that Kitana still beats Kung Lao. I'd still leave it at 6-4 Kit, but that's just me
- There's so much disagreement in the community with everything Quan Chi. If he doesn't have meter, it's 6-4 Kitana. If he has meter, it's 6-4 Quan. Honestly I'd just leave it as 5-5. It's just too difficult to actually measure the rune trap factor.
- I don't exactly understand 7-3 on Sindel... Sindel already has an advantage in the projectile war. Anything else I just don't see enough to justify that kind of number. I don't see how she can be worse than Noob here, as well as the Kitana-Kenshi matchup.

I play sindel, and this matchup i had at 6.5 but rounded it to 7. It's awful, completely awful, her rushdown is insane for sindel, and a kitana that bypasses the zoning is hell for sindel. I hate this matchup

How does kitana beat Kung Lao? I too thought so but if the kung lao teleports mindlessly and jumps around carelessly, then yeah, She controls the air, but if he's not in the air, how much control does kitana have?

Having meter or not, quan is 6-4 imo, the key is, just save your meter for a breaker. Rune trap doesnt make it bad or even for her

 

[RTM2004]

I play sindel, and this matchup i had at 6.5 but rounded it to 7. It's awful, completely awful, her rushdown is insane for sindel, and a kitana that bypasses the zoning is hell for sindel. I hate this matchup

YES! *Clicks Like* YES! YES!

Kitana's damage is too high in all areas (Jump Kick~Fan, F2,1, F4,1, 2,1,Ex Fan combo 40%+ starters) for Sindel to compete with hence her lack of huge comeback factor, how successful is Sindel landing her slow B3,F2 40% on Kitana who asses away and plays hard to catch? Now if Sindel were to have mid 4~Scream combo starter like Day 1, that's a different story XD

 

[rev0lver]

I play sindel, and this matchup i had at 6.5 but rounded it to 7. It's awful, completely awful, her rushdown is insane for sindel, and a kitana that bypasses the zoning is hell for sindel. I hate this matchup

How does kitana beat Kung Lao? I too thought so but if the kung lao teleports mindlessly and jumps around carelessly, then yeah, She controls the air, but if he's not in the air, how much control does kitana have?

Having meter or not, quan is 6-4 imo, the key is, just save your meter for a breaker. Rune trap doesnt make it bad or even for her

-I understand, but why would it possibly be worse than Noob? Sindel is definitely better up close than him. She's never completely shut down up close. I'm not saying it's 5-5, I'm just saying I don't see anything justifiably more than 6-4.

-When Kung Lao's not in the air he has his options limited. You're then playing a footsies battle, and I don't think it's hard to argue that she wins in footsies. He has to be really careful. His pressure game can only do so much.

-You clearly haven't been rune trapped enough. Go get rune trapped more.

 

[xKhaoTik]

-I understand, but why would it possibly be worse than Noob? Sindel is definitely better up close than him. She's never completely shut down up close. I'm not saying it's 5-5, I'm just saying I don't see anything justifiably more than 6-4.

-When Kung Lao's not in the air he has his options limited. You're then playing a footsies battle, and I don't think it's hard to argue that she wins in footsies. He has to be really careful. His pressure game can only do so much.

-You clearly haven't been rune trapped enough. Go get rune trapped more.

Idk..Joe doesn't even use sindel on me anymore. So maybe he's right about the match. Once kit gets in..sindel is basically done. Sure sindel can zone, but so can kit, and if sindel.misses with her fireball and kit hits with her fans..that's big damage sindel is gonna eat.

I agree with kit beating Lao tho. I already gave my thoughts in an earlier post.

And rune trap is a big comeback factor, but he needs meter for that and the foe can easily break it if they have meter. I run this matchup with Insuperable ALOT. I believe its 6-4 Kit.

 

[rev0lver]

Idk..Joe doesn't even use sindel on me anymore. So maybe he's right about the match. Once kit gets in..sindel is basically done. Sure sindel can zone, but so can kit, and if sindel.misses with her fireball and kit hits with her fans..that's big damage sindel is gonna eat.

I agree with kit beating Lao tho. I already gave my thoughts in an earlier post.

And rune trap is a big comeback factor, but he needs meter for that and the foe can easily break it if they have meter. I run this matchup with Insuperable ALOT. I believe its 6-4 Kit.

My point is that I don't understand why she's "done", compared to a character like Noob. She has effective rushdown techniques. Again, I'm not saying it's even, but Kit-CSZ bad? No way.

The reason I differentiate rune trap from something like Cyrax's comeback factor is because it's all chip. If he touches you, you're done. If you break a rune trap, then he still has all that meter (and let's not forget he can ex trance if he gets you in a combo). You simply can't measure the matchup. It can range from 6-4 Kitana to 6-4 Quan Chi. That's why I think it's better to leave it at 5-5. Kitana can't build meter so easily either; you have to be careful when zoning. As far as Insuperable goes, honestly I think he plays much better offline. I've played him a few times too, sometimes I win a lot and sometimes he babies me in a tag match... lol.

 

[xKhaoTik]

My point is that I don't understand why she's "done", compared to a character like Noob. She has effective rushdown techniques. Again, I'm not saying it's even, but Kit-CSZ bad? No way.

The reason I differentiate rune trap from something like Cyrax's comeback factor is because it's all chip. If he touches you, you're done. If you break a rune trap, then he still has all that meter (and let's not forget he can ex trance if he gets you in a combo). You simply can't measure the matchup. It can range from 6-4 Kitana to 6-4 Quan Chi. That's why I think it's better to leave it at 5-5. Kitana can't build meter so easily either; you have to be careful when zoning. As far as Insuperable goes, honestly I think he plays much better offline. I've played him a few times too, sometimes I win a lot and sometimes he babies me in a tag match... lol.

I agree to a certain extent. Like a said, the rune trap definitely is a comeback factor and can drastically channge the match, but, Quan can't use it if he can't touch u. He can save all the meter he wants, one mistake and he's eating 40%+ combo. If ex trance is blocked, he just wasted a bar and is gonna eat a huge combo. Kit can KO an opponent with just 2 combos. She does damage man...and Quan is gonna have to break. Plus kit is gonna do everything in her power to make sure Quan can't land the trap. I don't think the rune trap determines a matchup. If that was the case, then how come jade doesnt have better matches? She has purple glow! Rune Trap = 45%...Purple Glow = 3 full combos..jade wins if it were in those terms. And yet, she is still the "worst in the game". Supe also agrees its in her favor (kit v Quan)

 

[Mr. Mileena]

My point is that I don't understand why she's "done", compared to a character like Noob. She has effective rushdown techniques. Again, I'm not saying it's even, but Kit-CSZ bad? No way.

The reason I differentiate rune trap from something like Cyrax's comeback factor is because it's all chip. If he touches you, you're done. If you break a rune trap, then he still has all that meter (and let's not forget he can ex trance if he gets you in a combo). You simply can't measure the matchup. It can range from 6-4 Kitana to 6-4 Quan Chi. That's why I think it's better to leave it at 5-5. Kitana can't build meter so easily either; you have to be careful when zoning. As far as Insuperable goes, honestly I think he plays much better offline. I've played him a few times too, sometimes I win a lot and sometimes he babies me in a tag match... lol.

Her normals are slow and trash lol.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

I agree to a certain extent. Like a said, the rune trap definitely is a comeback factor and can drastically channge the match, but, Quan can't use it if he can't touch u. He can save all the meter he wants, one mistake and he's eating 40%+ combo. If ex trance is blocked, he just wasted a bar and is gonna eat a huge combo. Kit can KO an opponent with just 2 combos. She does damage man...and Quan is gonna have to break. Plus kit is gonna do everything in her power to make sure Quan can't land the trap. I don't think the rune trap determines a matchup. If that was the case, then how come jade doesnt have better matches? She has purple glow! Rune Trap = 45%...Purple Glow = 3 full combos..jade wins if it were in those terms. And yet, she is still the "worst in the game". Supe also agrees its in her favor (kit v Quan)

Curbo and Death say its 5-5 kl vs kit and i agree. you all will soon too

 

[rev0lver]

Curbo and Death say its 5-5 kl vs kit and i agree. you all will soon too

Why should we be listening to Curbo and Death on the Kit-Lao matchup?

 

[Mr. Mileena]

Why should we be listening to Curbo and Death on the Kit-Lao matchup?

because they both play a really high level KL, and REO as well and it's not easy.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

Curbo and Death say its 5-5 kl vs kit and i agree. you all will soon too

 

[xKhaoTik]

because they both play a really high level KL, and REO as well and it's not easy.

Yea I've played curbos Lao and we literally went back and forth. He actually made me question if the match really is 5-5 lol. His Lao is really good. The best I've played

 

[Mr. Mileena]

Yea I've played curbos Lao and we literally went back and forth. He actually made me question if the match really is 5-5 lol. His Lao is really good. The best I've played

all jk fans eat a spin too so none of that for you! lol

 

[rev0lver]

This is the problem I have with this. I really don't like this whole appeal to authority thing on matchups (not calling out mr mileena, i mean across all matchup forums on TYM). I don't care if so-and-so says it's a certain way, I don't care how many times so-and-so beat so-and-so, it's about why it's a certain way. I've played Curbo too and it didn't change my opinion on the matchup. Hell, if we judged matchups by Curbolicious then Johnny Cage would be 8-2 on the whole cast. I've played other top Lao players like Forever King, Mezmerize, and Classy Sasquatch too. I still think it's 6-4 for the reasons I stated.

Osu 16 Bit , you had a great little spiel about the way we've been discussing matchups in a recent podcast. perhaps you could chime in a bit here?

Also Mr Mileena stop being salty about losing to Kitanas with Sindel. You're going to make CSZ players cringe lol.

 

[16 Bit]

The MU chart system is supposed to represent two hypothetical equally skilled opponents with mastery of the characters playing a series of 10 matches. A result of 6 to 4 should mean only a minor disadvantage. It's one game away from going even. In the MK community we have 90% of MU at 5/5 and bad advantage at 6/4. You can have a character with every tool you could ask for to beat another but if the other has like one thing going for them it's a 5/5 MU. You don't even dare speak of 7/3. We also insist this is a MU heavy game the likes of which hasn't been seen since ST and I'm pressured almost every day to stop playing my favorite character exclusively, even though I'm blown up if I even say she has a handful of 4/6 MU. I'm done talking MU at TYM. I'm not that good, I don't know what's going on, and no one seems to understand the system.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

The MU chart system is supposed to represent two hypothetical equally skilled opponents with mastery of the characters playing a series of 10 matches. A result of 6 to 4 should mean only a minor disadvantage. It's one game away from going even. In the MK community we have 90% of MU at 5/5 and bad advantage at 6/4. You can have a character with every tool you could ask for to beat another but if the other has like one thing going for them it's a 5/5 MU. You don't even dare speak of 7/3. We also insist this is a MU heavy game the likes of which hasn't been seen since ST and I'm pressured almost every day to stop playing my favorite character exclusively, even though I'm blown up if I even say she has a handful of 4/6 MU. I'm done talking MU at TYM. I'm not that good, I don't know what's going on, and no one seems to understand the system.

I respect you alot because you refuse to main another character, much like me (I know i have sindel, but she's not better than Kitana)

In my opinion, Kitana can win EVERY matchup, even her 4/6 (minor disadvantage) She has all she needs, she just doesn't have Majorly good tools such as resets, cancels, etc, but Kitana can handle her own.

Kitana alone can win a tournament, so don't listen to the haters bit, you're probably the most respected player in my view because you have not fallen for the counterpicking scheme

I understand people want to win, but we love our character, and you have one of the strongest character loyalty out there.

You'll overcome that kenshi obstacle, and when you do, people better watch out for you.

Kitana has it in her to win every possible matchup.