Strategy Kitana General discussion

[16 Bit]

Okay so you've knocked scorpion down and are pressuring him on wake up, you know he's going to ex teleport, what are you're options? As far as I can tell its d1, dash, d1~cutter. There must be better though right?

Also, what are you guys punishing a blocked low hat with? Its -12 on block so theoretically we can't even 21~combo. A throw seems our only real option.

d+4~lift or jump back punch~air fan into combo.

d+1, a block string, or a throw/attack mixup.


BTW if you read wakeup leg takedown NJP that shit.

 

[BenGmanUk]

d+4~lift or jump back punch~air fan into combo.

d+1, a block string, or a throw/attack mixup.


BTW if you read wakeup leg takedown NJP that shit.

Nice I never thought to try d4~lift. I've never seen that done tbh.

Excellent on the NJP I'll try that thanks.

 

[16 Bit]

Actually if you read regular takedown the safest thing you can do is back up a little then f+2,1 the whiff. That way you're not getting blown up if he does wakeup EX teleport. But then he can get you with EX takedown because it reaches so far, which you'll have to NJP.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I wish NW threads had this much discussion...sigh

I've been practicing for you Osu. Me and Mr Mil been training.

 

[BenGmanUk]

Actually if you read regular takedown the safest thing you can do is back up a little then f+2,1 the whiff. That way you're not getting blown up if he does wakeup EX teleport. But then he can get you with EX takedown because it reaches so far, which you'll have to NJP.

I'd love to hear slips rage at you the first time you NJP'd a take down.

 

[TheChad_87]

There are 17 pages so apologies if this has been discussed already, but I've been playing around with doing EN iAF on reaction to projectiles.

I try to stay between max F21 and max 212 range while playing Kitana. It seems I can zone really well from max F21 range to about a step back from that and still punish accordingly. Obviously, everyone knows this. The thing I wanted to ask about (and do NOT jump down my throat with "I've been doing this since day one, Noob!"s. I don't doubt that. I'm just asking about it cause it's new to me) is using an EN iAF or jumping over a projectile on reaction and doing EN Air Fan into a F21 combo.

I've been using it against Noob with great success (A match I struggle with otherwise), and Im thinking it may help with Sindel as well. I was able to land it a few times against Dan and it seemed to make a huge difference. I tried it some against Kabal and it's great for dealing with Ground Saw, but his iAGB is still an nightmare for me.

Anyway, I havent seen this used much (Again, I'm not saying people don't use it. Don't flame me, bro!). So, I was just wondering, what's the deal?

 

[Konqrr]

I use EX Fan all the time in footsies. Works well vs Ermac TKP when you stand just outside of its range and jumping over a Raiden trying to do a blockstring on you.

EX Fan is a great whiff punish.

 

[Salad Petresky]

@Osu 16 Bit@
A friend of mine plays kitana, he was wondering what is the best AA option for kitana. For jump in and cross ups. Thanks bro

 

[TheChad_87]

Someone else may have a better answer for you, but I use 3, xxFan Toss, dash, 4, xxUpraise, dash, B+2, xxiAF, dash, Fan Toss, dash, 4, xxCutting Fan (37%, 12 Hits) You can use 2xxFan at the beginning of the combo as well for a bit more damage, but 3 seems to catch jump ins better because of a higher vertical hitbox. Also, cant go wrong with njP
njP, dash, 4, xxFan Toss, 4, xxUpraise, dash, dash, B+2, xxiAF, dash, Fan Toss, dash, 4, xxCutting Fan (40%, 13 Hits)


and of course, EN Lift.

 

[16 Bit]

AA 2 is used for longer ranged jumps. Like if they're getting shut down by d+1 and trying to jump in to get around it. You can back up and punish a jump in with 2 from hella far away.

AA 3 is used for closer jump ins and cross ups. It's also better at beating well timed jump kicks.

 

[RMGoddessofFans_bjudis85]

stay confusing yet very agile and

 

[STB Bodam]

Quick question: Chicken Mc'Noodle or Clam Chowder?

 

[BenGmanUk]

What do you guys think about using 2~fan after strings that leave you neutral on block? I've been playing around with stuff like jip, 11, 2~fan, jip f41, 2~fan, JK~air fan, 2~fan. The idea being that if they try and cross you up, jump back etc. you get 35% from a 2~fan, 2~lift combo.

I only ever see people using 2~fan for AA when catching people of the way down rather than people just leaving the ground. I suppose its a bit like using cages 11 for people trying to jump out.

Viable or not worth it?

 

[Konqrr]

What do you guys think about using 2~fan after strings that leave you neutral on block? I've been playing around with stuff like jip, 11, 2~fan, jip f41, 2~fan, JK~air fan, 2~fan. The idea being that if they try and cross you up, jump back etc. you get 35% from a 2~fan, 2~lift combo.

I only ever see people using 2~fan for AA when catching people of the way down rather than people just leaving the ground. I suppose its a bit like using cages 11 for people trying to jump out.

Viable or not worth it?

I've been thinking about using that too, I just haven't played around with it much. I have been trying to notice if my opponents have been trying to jump out after strings. This would be the best way to implement it, if your opponent is jump happy after blocking something. Once you train them not to though, you shouldn't use it anymore.

On another note...something I have been using for a long time now is her 33 string as pressure because it recovers so fast. You might have seen CD using it at the RevX tournament. The problem I have now is that my opponents see it coming and counter poke me and I lose advantage. Even my d3's get blocked and I get hit by a counter d3 which loses my advantage. Dogg and the AZ crew have talked about this months ago, nobody talks about it anymore though. It blows my mind how the "best" on the east coast don't ever see a d1 or d3 and counter poke it (aside from cdjr and reo sometimes). I mean, CD is always blowing people up with 33, d3 pressure and that shit NEVER works here. Maybe I haven't trained my opponents to stop pressing buttons enough? I don't know. Thoughts?

 

[16 Bit]

On another note...something I have been using for a long time now is her 33 string as pressure because it recovers so fast. You might have seen CD using it at the RevX tournament. The problem I have now is that my opponents see it coming and counter poke me and I lose advantage. Even my d3's get blocked and I get hit by a counter d3 which loses my advantage. Dogg and the AZ crew have talked about this months ago, nobody talks about it anymore though. It blows my mind how the "best" on the east coast don't ever see a d1 or d3 and counter poke it (aside from cdjr and reo sometimes). I mean, CD is always blowing people up with 33, d3 pressure and that shit NEVER works here. Maybe I haven't trained my opponents to stop pressing buttons enough? I don't know. Thoughts?

I've thought the same thing. I think it's because they're scared of the b+1,2. The push back of the blocked 3,3 and d+3 puts her in range for that to beat counter pokes. What I don't get is why 3,3 follow ups are so respected because 3,3,3 sucks and 3,3~cutter only jails on standing block.

b+1,2 can be blown up. It's only beating pokes because of it's whack hitbox. It has a 20 frame startup so they can do any long range move to beat it. Of course her d+1 would stuff those but that's not a great guessing game in her favor. I never see anyone do this to him.

 

[16 Bit]

Actually one way you could get them to stop hitting buttons after 3,3 is Fake Out Kick. I was looking into that move since it has the random frame advantage glitch and Somberness posted the full frame data and found some interesting setups. b+3,3 and 3,3 have enough cancel advantage on block they cannot poke out. On crouch block it jails and on stand block they can only jump over her(and connecting a JIP is pretty hard). d+4~FOK jails. They can all be armored out though.

 

[TheChad_87]

Stuff.

I've actually been playing with Fake-Out Kick a bit myself. Before I had pretty much decided Sweep > Fake-Out Kick and basically discounted it completely. I started out using B12, B1xxFOK mix-up, which is okay, but honestly, we're not getting all that many opportunities for a B1 anyway.

33,xxFOK was the next place I went with it and I still use it some. 33xxCutter v 33xxFOK, but as you said 33xxCutter can be easily crouched. So, I'm using 212 from range for pressure and 33 up close. Utilizing Cutter and FOK. Or using the block pushback to go into B12 v B1xxFOK.

I'm also working more with D4. Im starting to like it, but no one wants to punish D1 because of the fear of D1xxCutter, so I find myself falling back into using it most of the time. Still a good mix-up or D1 pressure, D1xxCutter, D4, and D4xxFOK could prove to be just annoying enough ^_^

Just wanted to share my thoughts/seconding of your thoughts on the character and these strategies

 

[Verstande]

I always viewed 33 as Cyrax's 33, (not sure about the notations but he has the double kick), and I've been trying to come up with something useful to link it to but haven't found anything yet.

 

[BenGmanUk]

I'm finding players seem to constantly duck against me now so am bringing 212 and b12 into my game more and more. You WILL stand against my cutter!

 

[16 Bit]

How do you get them to stand with 2,1,2? There's even some characters were 2,1~cutter whiffs on crouch block.

I think when someone truly knows the MU, knows when to counter poke and when not to, knows how to blow up cutter, the only way to open them up is throw.

 

[rev0lver]

What do you guys think about using 2~fan after strings that leave you neutral on block? I've been playing around with stuff like jip, 11, 2~fan, jip f41, 2~fan, JK~air fan, 2~fan. The idea being that if they try and cross you up, jump back etc. you get 35% from a 2~fan, 2~lift combo.

I do this alot actually. There's nothing wrong with throwing it out randomly. I've caught a lot of people with it.

 

[Jimmypotato]

How do you get them to stand with 2,1,2? There's even some characters were 2,1~cutter whiffs on crouch block.

I think when someone truly knows the MU, knows when to counter poke and when not to, knows how to blow up cutter, the only way to open them up is throw.

This,

B1~cutter and B1 into Fake out kick both get blown up by 6frame move, confirmed by getting my ass uppercutted multiple times by Quan Dink

There is no reason at all to stand against Kitana, her 2 over heads can be seen a mile away.

You cant get away with mashing D1 3 or 4 times in a row against someone that knows what there doing, might work for people online, but offline your gonna get blown the fuck up for anything you do with kitana.

I don't even finish most of my strings anymore, just find a good place to throw, and hope to hell it isnt read, when they do start to read throw is the only time i'll finish into cutter to try catch them. (1~throw 1,1~throw B3~throw)

B3 works nice if they start ducking you with out blocking as it will actually stand your opponent up, B3~Cutter.

 

[PhilipGraves]

Any advice for denying wake ups, as kitana It seems like many peoples d4s and sometimes regular chains totally deny kitana on wake up. I know at about 3/4 screen a fan immediately after knock down or drop os scorpion will catch is teleport on wake up. How does everyone else deal with this? Against better players I either recover or just stand up in block. Depending on the opponents zoning, square boost can at least get me out of a corner but not always, especially against Raiden and liu kang.

 

[PhilipGraves]

If I was at home right now I'd look, but last night I started trying f4~fake out kick. Does anyone know if it is more damaging? On one hand it is a special and builds meter, however it seems much slower than f4~b4. So fearing of my overhead combo it worked 100% of the time where f4~b4 would have.

 

[Konqrr]

Any advice for denying wake ups, as kitana It seems like many peoples d4s and sometimes regular chains totally deny kitana on wake up. I know at about 3/4 screen a fan immediately after knock down or drop os scorpion will catch is teleport on wake up. How does everyone else deal with this? Against better players I either recover or just stand up in block. Depending on the opponents zoning, square boost can at least get me out of a corner but not always, especially against Raiden and liu kang.

d4 may stop all of Kitana's wakeup options, but unless they can 2-in-1 into a safe guessing game or a special you have to block like Kabal or Reptile, you can simply block the d4 and you gain the advantage back.

I've been watching a lot of videos lately and so many players are trying to get out at all costs when they are knocked down. This means trying to jump, doing random wakeup attacks, etc. Sometimes, it is simply best to block.

If you fall victim to crossup pressure after being knocked down, you can get out of that for free by simply holding down to stay grounded, then as they jump over you, roll away from them.

Like any fighting game, you have to limit your opponents options. Out of those options, know what you can do about them. Then when they do their attack, punish them for it.