Is Kotal Kahn the "perfect" character of MKX right now?

[iMileena]

@ that injustice match LOLOL

 

[lilyunggrabbagjr]

I would say tremor is pretty viable in all variations especially since he has four of them

 

[Osagri]

In what match ups would you ever use high-tech? :/

I think quan is one of those mu with kotal sg and bg coz of her +frame cancels. I don't play her but iv played against her.
@stosnn thoughts?

 

[AZ MotherBrain]

In fact probably for 90% of the cast 2 out of 3 variations are totally or nearly useless.

Get this trash out of here

 

[mkl]

Forums need to start banning Belial on sight on principle.

 

[iSuckAtFightingGames]

I think the variation system has been a great success. Most of the cast has 2 completely viable variations, and only a few are limited to 1.. some even have 3 that are viable.

I can see what the OP is saying though. KK has not only great viable variations but they promote vastly different play styles. I would agree that it is probably one of the better examples of what the variation system is all about.

 

[Pan1cMode]

In what match ups would you ever use high-tech? :/

Quan, Dvorah, kotal, unbreakable sub, hunter/warrior, predator.

There are others too but those are the first that come to mind.

 

[Belial]

Easier to scrub out wins with against the masses and being actually competitively better are two different things.

Kung Lao gives Quan a hard time in all variations, but no matter who the character is, you put someone in the corner as Sorcerer and they HAVE to guess a safe meterless armoured 50/50. Or you can just do 70% damage for making them block.

He is very good, just not used for a very silly reason. I think eventually we will see a rise of Sorcerer once people actually figure out how good it is.

This is EXACTLY why thread name says "right now". We never know what next patch does OR if there is some underdog with new variation tech wating at next EVO. Hell, this thread by itself might give rise to a few or at least make people look at some variations more closely

 

[Belial]

It seems arguements seem to repeat themselves over and over again
Quick FAQ for you
Q: "But character A variations ARE GDLK its just nobody plays them"
A: This is exactly the point here. Nobody. Plays. Them. Why if they are so good? Why Kotal Kahn gets top spots by top players while being widely considered "not so good". It is really frustrating talking to people unable to comprehend simple logical pattern...

Q: "Char X has TEH MAD POTENTIAL"
A: The problem here is you cannot evaluate potential. You can speculate, you can build theories. But every theory needs practice before validated as correct. So far all your theories remain nothing more than fantasy. Accept this, let my words of wisdom wash away your ignorance.

Seriously, guys, so far the only informative post has been made by The Celebrity. The rest of them are bunch superstitious stuff, based on beliefs

Kotal has it all. Not exactly top tier but sees all 3 variations played by top players and placing high. Sees each variation played EXCLUSIVELY AND also sees use of other variations to maximize MU effects. That makes an incredibly well-designed character.

Forums need to start banning Belial on sight on principle.

I wonder where this is coming from. So far most of my threads are more informative than your entire life

 

[PND_Ketchup]

I disagree. High tech Jacqui vs. Quan is at least 5-5 if not Jacqui's favour.

What is HT guna do against Sorcerer?

 

[Belial]

What is HT guna do against Sorcerer?

Nothing obviously
because they will never meet in a tournament. Because nobody plays either.

 

[ETC AdmiralAugustus]

There could be numerous reasons why X character (variation) doesn't see much play as X character (variation). From aesthetics, to execution difficulty, to gameplan. You're being ridiculous. Stoppit.

 

[Belial]

There could be numerous reasons why X character (variation) doesn't see much play as X character (variation). From aesthetics, to execution difficulty, to gameplan. You're being ridiculous. Stoppit.

The one being ridiculous is you, making up these theories. There might be a reasons why humans cant fly "From aesthetics, to execution difficulty", but since we dont see any, we dont seriously discuss this, are we?
Every theory starts from observation turned into suggestion which then should be tested out by practice. rinse. repeat. This is basically what science is. If there is no practice theory is not valid. End of story.

I AM NOT SAYING THIS VARIATIONS ARE TERRIBLE I AM SAYING THEY ARE NOT PLAYED THUS CHARACTER DESIGN IS FLAWED IN SOME WAY THAT PREVENTS VERSION B FROM BEING PLAYED. Variation B doesnt have any advantages to make people pick it over A = bad design.

 

[GAV]

Not In the way you put it. Kotal is an enjoyable char, he looks amazing on stream, watching Mr aquaman or madzin in tournaments it's ridiculously hype, but sadly MKX is only 50/50s and heavy rushdowns, what I think NRS really wanted (I'm talking out of my ass) was a more offensive game than injustice, because thats exactly what made people hate igau, zoning for days, crazy backaldashes, defensive play was a viable strategy, baiting was harder, but it worked, In MKX they used the most effective offensive moves in igau, 50/50s and looping preassure and added run and 2 bar breaker, they were like, just make it way faster, we don't have time for patience, just make it exactly the opposite of injustice
Boring

Hype

 

[@MylesWright_]

Not In the way you put it. Kotal is an enjoyable char, he looks amazing on stream, watching Mr aquaman or madzin in tournaments it's ridiculously hype, but sadly MKX is only 50/50s and heavy rushdowns, what I think NRS really wanted (I'm talking out of my ass) was a more offensive game than injustice, because thats exactly what made people hate igau, zoning for days, crazy backaldashes, defensive play was a viable strategy, baiting was harder, but it worked, In MKX they used the most effective offensive moves in igau, 50/50s and looping preassure and added run and 2 bar breaker, they were like, just make it way faster, we don't have time for patience, just make it exactly the opposite of injustice
Boring

Hype

That was Injustice early in it's lifespan. The zoning greatly evolved into this

 

[Rude]

Once you get in, whether by spacing, blocking an attack, etc, you can start your offense on block with +frames and +cancels and more +on block setups to the point to whether he takes chip of death or a hit into combo of death. The Jacqui player has to make a mistake 9/10 times for Quan to even be able to do anything once she gets started. MU is possibly in Jacqui's favor. I agree with Panic.

Send me a pm and explain how this works. I'm intrigued.

 

[RM NoBrows]

This thread is redundant. @Belial telling us to discuss this and people give more than valid points, only to act like his opinion matters on this site and give answers with no validation/explanations/backup anything he says. At least m2dave makes it obvious that his posts, threads are trolly/sarcastic.

And this "tournament results or doesn't natter" crap needs to stop. Just because a certain character doesn't make a top 8 doesn't mean a thing. Many characters/variations don't have representation due to lack of knowledge, thinking another character/variation is better.

Everyone in the beginning of the game used Bojutsu over shaolin with KJ (slayer said that Bojutsu would always be his best variation back at ECT. KT smith told me he personally thought months back shaolin will be KJs best variation), along with people playing buzz saw over tempest with KL. A list didn't become big until a few months ago. Yes a lot of the people who converted did so because of post patches, but a lot of it also most likely had to do with lack of knowledge /exp with said variation.

With all this being said, quan chi, cassie cage, Sonya blade, along with kotal all are very balanced with there three variations having an answer for the entire cast.

 

[Belial]

This thread is redundant. @Belial telling us to discuss this and people give more than valid points, only to act like his opinion matters on this site and give answers with no validation/explanations/backup anything he says. At least m2dave makes it obvious that his posts, threads are trolly/sarcastic.

And this "tournament results or doesn't natter" crap needs to stop. Just because a certain character doesn't make a top 8 doesn't mean a thing. Many characters/variations don't have representation due to lack of knowledge, thinking another character/variation is better.

Everyone in the beginning of the game used Bojutsu over shaolin with KJ (slayer said that Bojutsu would always be his best variation back at ECT. KT smith told me he personally thought months back shaolin will be KJs best variation), along with people playing buzz saw over tempest with KL. A list didn't become big until a few months ago. Yes a lot of the people who converted did so because of post patches, but a lot of it also most likely had to do with lack of knowledge /exp with said variation.

With all this being said, quan chi, cassie cage, Sonya blade, along with kotal all are very balanced with there three variations having an answer for the entire cast.

Jesus, not this again. I have answered over and over again
the only reason why most of my answers seem like Im arrogant b/c comments like yours. Completely ignorant how things work and also too lazy to bother reading

 

[PND_Ketchup]

Nothing obviously
because they will never meet in a tournament. Because nobody plays either.

But I play and have placed in every tournament I've ever entered with Sorcerer ;.;

 

[I GOT HANDS]

This guy is the epitome of a very common attitude on TYM. "We need tournament results from better players to decide our opinion for us", cmon we are capable of using our brains and evaluating a characters capabilities without this. Have some original thought instead of letting other people decide everything for, I haven't played a single competitive game where the tournament scene wasnt constantly evolving as players learned, to think that a game with such a tiny competitive player base would have it all fleshed out by now is absurd. I've seen varying scales of it on here (this guy being on the deepest end) but the mentality that tournament results are any definitive measure of balance at all is just a bad one IMO.

 

[SaSSolino]

Remember NRS designed all this variations for some kind of counterpicking purpose, which nobody cares about as of now. If people want pressure/zoning/whatever they'd really just swtich character not variation

In fact probably for 90% of the cast 2 out of 3 variations are totally or nearly useless.

I prefer switching variation actually, and Shinnok allows me to do so. WoundCowboy does the same, and I also know a very good Kano loyalist that does that with all 3 variations.

there's a good number of players that prefer to change variation instead of character outside of KK loyalists, belive me.

 

[RM NoBrows]

Jesus, not this again. I have answered over and over again
the only reason why most of my answers seem like Im arrogant b/c comments like yours. Completely ignorant how things work and also too lazy to bother reading

THAN DON'T MAKE A FUCKING THREAD LIKE THIS. You're making excuses for yourself for being a prick to people trying to discuss this kind of stuff. If you don't wanna read what everyone says, don't act like you care just to be a douche. This is ignorance on your part, not mine.

 

[Belial]

But I play and have placed in every tournament I've ever entered with Sorcerer ;.;

Considering how widely Quan is played I'd say you're an exception. Apparently other players dont find any benefits of using Sorcerer. Also last time I saw you play was really long ago if you werent into ESL commentary maybe you could inspire more people to use Sorc. I still doubt it though, you yourself named the reasons already.

This guy is the epitome of a very common attitude on TYM. "We need tournament results from better players to decide our opinion for us", cmon we are capable of using our brains and evaluating a characters capabilities without this. Have some original thought instead of letting other people decide everything for, I haven't played a single competitive game where the tournament scene wasnt constantly evolving as players learned, to think that a game with such a tiny competitive player base would have it all fleshed out by now is absurd. I've seen varying scales of it on here (this guy being on the deepest end) but the mentality that tournament results are any definitive measure of balance at all is just a bad one IMO.

So far a lot of emotion and ZERO actual facts.
There are multiple ways to reach a consensus, of course, but in a competetive enviroment, results are the best objective method. Scientist do not take decisions based solely on thinking, they need testing to prove thinking correct. The question I put up is obvious and simple as are the facts supporting it. People are not happy their character are left out and try to find excuse, thats why they are atacking me. The Celebrity wanted to make a point got some proof and I agreed with him. You on the other hand, prefer to atack me and even logic itself, instead of providing proof. Why? Because there are no facts to support your claim. Hell, if we do it your way we'll end up with SubZero and Scorpion being the best-designed just because they are people favorites, that has nothing to do with game design or mechanics, but people will come up with pathetic and dumb reasons about potential.

 

[Belial]

THAN DON'T MAKE A FUCKING THREAD LUKE THIS. You're making excuses for yourself for being a prick to people trying to discuss this kind of stuff. If you don't wanna read what everyone says, don't act like you care just to be a douche. This is ignorance on your part, not mine.

Damn you have even harder time comprehending stuff than I imagined. Here I'll make it easy for you: there is a poll pinned up there with 3 simple options thats easy enough to grasp, please feel free to make your input.

 

[Belial]

I prefer switching variation actually, and Shinnok allows me to do so. WoundCowboy does the same, and I also know a very good Kano loyalist that does that with all 3 variations.

there's a good number of players that prefer to change variation instead of character outside of KK loyalists, belive me.

If you look above I've provided points on why I think KK is unique:
Each variation is standalone-effective(doesnt need other variations)
But at the same time each variation can/is used to support another

Cowboy used necromancer a couple of times against tanya, which is counterpicking basically, I'd doubt we'd see him succeed using necro-only
Nevermind that when it comes to popular characters like Shinnok, KL, Quan etc we have a really large piece of data to look upon and we clearly see them have only 1 truly used variation. like 99% Quans are Summoner and 99% KL are Tempest and 99% Shinnok are bone shapers. This remaining % is mere deviation.