Question Is it possible for SZ to beat a top level Raiden online

[IrishMantis]

Ive seen threads like this but not this in particular

i played a Raiden online a good 1, and he seems to hard to beat, its almost like "lag + Teleport = free pressure"

i tried poking but he can poke before me, im a good Sub player now, no shit 1, i know what im doing, it doesn't seen raidens normals have much recovery as they should do especially online,
he only superman's me when i jump, theres no escaping

is it possible, online

 

[REO]

no.

 

[Enenra]

Yes, actually. Pop an ice clone and walk in front of it for one. That limits Raiden's teleport

 

[Z-911-Z]

Yes, actually. Pop an ice clone and walk in front of it for one. That limits Raiden's teleport

Yup, in addition if he supermans you he'll still get frozen by the ice clone as he's tackling you.

 

[Faded Dreams V]

Can't you use 2 1 4 (or 2 1 2) on reaction to his teleport? Online, it depends on the connection. If we're talking Ranked here, then....well, you should know what you're in for when you play that mode.

 

[IrishMantis]

i know that, but he seems to able to just teleport straight away i drop a clone, and pressure me to death,
he manage to babality me twice meaning he did without blocking haha,
thanks for the replies, this was the best Riaden i played, so maybe hes just use to Subs

 

[leek]

block button

 

[IrishMantis]

block button

Yep i almost broke it

 

[IrishMantis]

Can't you use 2 1 4 (or 2 1 2) on reaction to his teleport? Online, it depends on the connection. If we're talking Ranked here, then....well, you should know what you're in for when you play that mode.

Yeah i tried he poked me out of it,
It wasn't ranked, maybe i am just really shit, haha
would love to see a top class Sub play a top class Raiden online, just to see what to do,
mind you he's prolly on these forums, it seems every good MK player is on this site
this shit is the business

 

[Enenra]

Huh, dude that's weird. I have no problem with Raiden when I use Sub. Sub Zero's defense is better than Raiden's offense, but when I first started with Sub Zero, Raiden did give me ulcers. It's easier than you think, pop ice clones and dash in front of them. Raiden's little lightning bolts are slow, so if he starts trying to zone you use ice ball. I typically try to stay in midscreen against Raiden. 22 on reaction to teleport is awesome. Make sure you have AA down, as your ice clone is behind you (hopefully) so you can't lean on it like a crutch. A blocked superman at full pushback can be punished with dash 22 ice blast, b1(whiff)2, 212 slide (or) dash 212 freeze, b1(whiff)2, 22 (or 21) slide. I recommend the 212 variant. Be wary of superman on wake up, and ready to punish. If you score a ground combo, go for the JIP b121 reset unless you know you can kill him with either JIP 214 slide or NJP 1 b12 212 slide. When you reset him, throw the shit out of him until he starts breaking it like twice in a row, then go for a 212 freeze into combo, but be prepared to hit confirm into ice clone and dash up in front of it.

Hope this helps.

 

[THTB]

No.

 

[IrishMantis]

Huh, dude that's weird. I have no problem with Raiden when I use Sub. Sub Zero's defense is better than Raiden's offense, but when I first started with Sub Zero, Raiden did give me ulcers. It's easier than you think, pop ice clones and dash in front of them. Raiden's little lightning bolts are slow, so if he starts trying to zone you use ice ball. I typically try to stay in midscreen against Raiden. 22 on reaction to teleport is awesome. Make sure you have AA down, as your ice clone is behind you (hopefully) so you can't lean on it like a crutch. A blocked superman at full pushback can be punished with dash 22 ice blast, b1(whiff)2, 212 slide (or) dash 212 freeze, b1(whiff)2, 22 (or 21) slide. I recommend the 212 variant. Be wary of superman on wake up, and ready to punish. If you score a ground combo, go for the JIP b121 reset unless you know you can kill him with either JIP 214 slide or NJP 1 b12 212 slide. When you reset him, throw the shit out of him until he starts breaking it like twice in a row, then go for a 212 freeze into combo, but be prepared to hit confirm into ice clone and dash up in front of it.

Hope this helps.

Cheers man ill try it thanks, imust be just too slow

lol at the mods trolling, i respect yo dudes love seen yas fight, Reo and THTB, so do you's really need to troll me, and make me look stupid,,, i know it was a stupid question in the first place but still, as i said i love seen you guys fight at tournys, , advice would be better than making a fool out of me,

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

I think its the fact that online a Raiden player can make his teleport safe.... negating a lot of what SZ can do. This matchup is a little in Raiden's favor anyhow and online I'd say it is more so.

To be able to punish his teleport, you have to anticipate it... and online that type of anticipation requires a huge risky read.

 

[Seapeople]

Raiden online is a retard. His teleport feels like advantage sometimes lmao.

Random supermans are harder to block on reaction, superman in general is hard to punish with a ground combo, and he can wakeup superman if lag decides you should drop a combo. So yeah, it's not very fun.

Edit: There's like 1000 matchup threads on this forum. You can look at the stickies for common questions: http://testyourmight.com/threads/version-1-05-subzero-matchup-discussion.9704/

 

[salvificblood]

Yes, actually. Pop an ice clone and walk in front of it for one. That limits Raiden's teleport

You can't really do this all the time and plus, you want Raiden to teleport so you can punish with 22. Unless you're on a really bad connection you can easily punish the teleport online if you're looking for it.

Raiden rapes Sub-Zero anyway. It's his second worst matchup after Kung Lao. Online lag will obviously help the Raiden player but Sub doesn't have many options in this matchup full stop. I would advise not trying to be too aggressive because then the matchup becomes even worse.

 

[Bidu]

Not impossible. Only very hard.

 

[Enenra]

You can't really do this all the time and plus, you want Raiden to teleport so you can punish with 22. Unless you're on a really bad connection you can easily punish the teleport online if you're looking for it.

Raiden rapes Sub-Zero anyway. It's his second worst matchup after Kung Lao. Online lag will obviously help the Raiden player but Sub doesn't have many options in this matchup full stop. I would advise not trying to be too aggressive because then the matchup becomes even worse.

WHAT? No he doesn't. It's one of the most even matches in the game. Again, WHAT?

 

[THTB]

Cheers man ill try it thanks, imust be just too slow

lol at the mods trolling, i respect yo dudes love seen yas fight, Reo and THTB, so do you's really need to troll me, and make me look stupid,,, i know it was a stupid question in the first place but still, as i said i love seen you guys fight at tournys, , advice would be better than making a fool out of me,

It's just fun trolling lol...REO does it 24/7, so don't take offense to it.

But yeah, it's possible online, although retarded difficult. It's not as bad offline, though.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

Online? No.

Offline? Maybe.

 

[salvificblood]

WHAT? No he doesn't. It's one of the most even matches in the game. Again, WHAT?

How is it an even matchup? There's no way Sub-Zero goes 5-5 with Raiden. Against scrubby online Raidens, yeah, you win by blocking random supermans and waiting for him to teleport but Raiden nullifies your best pressure string 21 by being able to teleport between 1 and 2, he doesn't respect your zoning game since a smart teleport will completely bypass all your attempts to zone him with iceballs or clones. And I ask, why does the Raiden player care if you start cloning midscreen and walking in front of it? You can't beat him by doing that all game. He doesn;t have to go anywhere near you. He also doesn't have to respect your corner pressure at all, etc, etc. It's at least 6.5-3.5 in Raiden's favour.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Never use 212 against Raiden. He'll take 22/35/37% of your life for that string

Raiden can beat sub without using the teleport much anyway because his footsies are way better, and he can build meter freely against him

 

[IrishMantis]

@TBHB sorry man, i shouldn't have it took personally, i just dont want to start off at the wrong foot my man, thanks for advice too, yeah i know Reo is famously known for trolling everybody even himself if he could haha, he's a dead cool chap

thanks for the advice everybody kinda proving Sub fucked against a high level Raiden, so its best to play with another Char, my Jax is alright, but need to tightening him up abit, and yeah a call Kung Lao"Kunt Lao"

P.S its good to talk to the names i watch at the Tournys here, good vibes

 

[OnizukaPM]

Foxy why? I dont understand your point

edit. okay i get it now 214 instead

 

[salvificblood]

Foxy why? I dont understand your point

edit. okay i get it now 214 instead

@TBHB sorry man, i shouldn't have it took personally, i just dont want to start off at the wrong foot my man, thanks for advice too, yeah i know Reo is famously known for trolling everybody even himself if he could haha, he's a dead cool chap

thanks for the advice everybody kinda proving Sub fucked against a high level Raiden, so its best to play with another Char, my Jax is alright, but need to tightening him up abit, and yeah a call Kung Lao"Kunt Lao"

P.S its good to talk to the names i watch at the Tournys here, good vibes

It's not an unwinnable matchup, it's just that you will probably have to make lots of uncomfortable guesses and you will lose more often than you will win and afterwards you will find yourself asking: why am I losing to this *insert word of choice*?

214 or 22. Do Sub-Zero players still use 22 or are they just lazy now? It's still his best leave-me-alone string.

 

[Sage Leviathan]

On reaction, i use 224, as 212 and 214 are WAY too slow.
Actually, until PLs showing at FrostyFaustings, i thought that Subbzy v Raiden was 5-5.
The key tool is really Ice Clone. To me, anyway.