Match-up Discussion Indecisive's Living MU Chart

[Fred Marvel]

Shazam can get through it, idk if its hard as shit to do but its happened to me if he times the teleport right the rocket just kinda bounces off of him
or he could just teleport past them and d2 punish or torpedo. maybe he cant get past trait ia rockets but normal ones he can

 

[KingJamez12]

Yep, it's the traited air rockets that makes the match up horrible for Shazam. If you read a wake up teleport you can punish with mb rocket. The fact that GL has no oki against Shazam is okay with me because even if he did, I would still prefer traiting up and playing keep away.

 

[Peckapowa]

i would think batgirl does fairly well against shazam because she can hold down bolas and variate the pace and release on reaction to teleport for chip and on anticipation for a punsih, and if she lands one she can dash up for mixups, and she has some decent options in the footsie game and you have to come to her. her cartwheel also is good defensively because it deals with air and dash but its risky. A big part would be how well does he deal with her wakeups(can she wakeup db3 out?) and at what distances can she punish torpedo with her headbutt.

as batman i turtle the living shit out ofhim with bats, and make sure i don't get hit and space myself at teleport range so i can check him with normals, occasionally i will spear i him. I know if i space properly with b23, deal with torpedo and pushblock or make a confident guess if i ever do block him and use trait he has the worst time ever getting in, especially if i save up for 2 bats. Once he knocks me down its a fucking mess though so i get the 5-5's. I just feel batman wins it in everyway besides getting annihalted on knockdown. if i was shazam i would try to bait out a trait usage and pushblock, then go to town. occasiaonly i will random dash up to anticipate a teleport and go for a string. If i get comfy with life lead ill chuck a projectile here or there. mb rangs are good meter usage.

vs shazam with zod i like to run the fuck away, if i wakeup i use torpedo, occasionally i push block him, and when i shoot slowballs if i read a teleport i hold down laser and mb it on reaction for a punish. after phantom hand if he does anything advancing my uppercut wins. mixing your pistols shots ups and zod ball speed is a big deal. and doing nothing and reactiing to his moves and punishing is good too. backdash is a big deal and if i have meter i can stall him enough for trait and the fun begins. ill sprinke in charged lasers too.

with martian its all about turtling and not teleporting controlling space with regular orbs and my trait and attempting to punish any teleport attempts with a pillar or a normal, on oki i like to throw an orbs on either back or forward teleport distance and approach the other direction. martian makes it a nightmare for him to get in, but shazam has some excellent pressure on wakeup.

my universal strategy vs shazam is to turtle hard.

 

[Indecisive]

GL does beat Shazam handily in the zoning game but cant do anything to him after a knockdown and Shazam can go crazy on GL after one, cant random lift because b2, im no expert on this matchup but it just doesnt feel 7-3 at all id say 6-4. only character GL probably 7-3's is Grundy because he can literall just air rocket and minigun the entire match and win

Your probably not doing it consistent enough. If you do then i teleport into the next one and i still have to block. Also b2 has like 20 frames of start up. its actually not that fast at all. And you can do the same thing to Shazam. Its just as bad. Only grundy has armor on his moves. And your fucked on Knock down against grundy as well. And a lot of the cast for that matter. You cant really base the entire MU on Mix Ups and Knock Down Guessing games.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Your probably not doing it consistent enough. If you do then i teleport into the next one and i still have to block. Also b2 has like 20 frames of start up. its actually not that fast at all. And you can do the same thing to Shazam. Its just as bad. Only grundy has armor on his moves. And your fucked on Knock down against grundy as well. And a lot of the cast for that matter. You cant really base the entire MU on Mix Ups and Knock Down Guessing games.

Ignore the gl trolls, @Denzell and @Digit played at scr in a money match and both could give u some great input on the matchup.

 

[Indecisive]

Ignore the gl trolls, @Denzell and @Digit played at scr in a money match and both could give u some great input on the matchup.

Thanks. More actual Input would be nice.

 

[RNLDRGN]

I was Talking to SZSR a bit and decided to Share my MU Chart. This Chart is able to change over time. It is based on all the people i have played against over time. It is still changing each time i play so every number is subject to Change. For now i will put numbers up. And Players who i have Played against. If i do not know a MU that well I will tell people. If you have any questions i will answer them

Aquaman: 5-5 Rico, Riyo(I still need to Play this MU More. Hopefully i can Play Tom Brady in a long set in real Life)

Ares: ?-?. I have yet to play Any Ares players. So i will not give a number for this.

Bane: 5-5 Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Batgirl:?-? Need to play this MU More to really get a number

Batman: 5-5 Arma, Fran, RapZilla, Hercules

Black Adam: 4-6 Rico. (Need to play this more as well)

Catwomen: ?-? Chemist4hire (I dont even know what to think of this MU. Even though i have played Again a Catwoman i really have no idea what to think.

Cyborg: 5-5 JailHouse

DeathStroke: 4-6 SilentJay, Jonnitti, J360

DoomsDay: ?-? WhiteBoi(I got to play Him at FR but not enough to give a number

Flash: 4-6 Zyphox

Green Arrow: 4-6 7L

Green Lantern: 3-7 King James, KT Smith

Harley Quinn: 4-6 Ramon, Again, KPrime(Would have loved to play more against KPrime)

Hawkgirl: 5-5 Icey, HuskyBrown

Joker: 5-5 Stevo

Killer Frost: ?-? I have no idea

Lex Luthor: ?-? Revolver (I need to play him more before giving a real number

Lobo: ?-? Ummmmmmm

MMH: 4-6 Jupiter, REO

Nightwing: 4-6 (Need to play more)

Raven: 4-6 Ray Riazy

Scorpion: 6-4 Silent Jay

Shazam: 5-5 Digit

Sinestro: 4-6 Dropped Combo. Also known as dude who got hit with they dumpster by King at NEC

Grundy: 6-4 Mike Metroid and the Grundy Army at Blue Planet.(Im more going by Chefs number on this since he has Tyrant)

Superman: 4-6 KDZ, Fran

Wonder Woman: 4-6 KDZ

Zatanna: ?-? Again, Deg. (Need to play More. Deg said probably 5-5)

Zod: 4-6 Viking, Arma, Fran, Pig. ( I really want to play this more to understand it better.

Advantage: 2
Disadvantage: 13
Even: 6
In progress: 8

If anyone wants to fill in the numbers and help out let me know.

I disagree with quite a few. Here's what I think:

Ares, I'd say is 4-6 Ares. I've played Mr Aqua and a few others.
Bane feels like 6-4 Shazam. I play Grr all the time and while I often lose, it's bc he's better than me, not bc Shazam doesn't have the tools.
Batgirl 5-5. I've played a decent amount of sets w JRosa and SonicFox.
Doomsday 5-5.
Green Arrow might be 3-7, it's BAAAAD.
GL could be 3-7 or 4-6, it's not good.
Joker 4-6. His zoning and teeth really shut Shazam down.
KF 4-6. I've played Khaotic and a few others and while it's doable, it sucks.
Luthor 4-6. Shazam has a hard time getting rid of armor and preventing traps.
Lobo 6-4. Running away is key. Kinda like the Bane MU + shotgun.
MMH 5-5. 4-6 you say? COME ON.
NW could be 3-7. This might be his worst MU.
WW 5-5.
Zatanna 4-6. Might be worse. This MU sucks, it's basically a tougher version of the Ares MU.

Just my opinion here. You left a lot of characters blank--which surprises me--I thought you knew everything

 

[RNLDRGN]

Yep, it's the traited air rockets that makes the match up horrible for Shazam. If you read a wake up teleport you can punish with mb rocket. The fact that GL has no oki against Shazam is okay with me because even if he did, I would still prefer traiting up and playing keep away.

YO CHARLES!

When my hand heals I'm getting back in the game!

 

[Fred Marvel]

Your probably not doing it consistent enough. If you do then i teleport into the next one and i still have to block. Also b2 has like 20 frames of start up. its actually not that fast at all. And you can do the same thing to Shazam. Its just as bad. Only grundy has armor on his moves. And your fucked on Knock down against grundy as well. And a lot of the cast for that matter. You cant really base the entire MU on Mix Ups and Knock Down Guessing games.

i am but with the way GL's air rockets work when he has trait, what youre saying is probably possible since theres less recovery but when he doesnt Shazam can get through them youre probably taking the wrong approach about it

 

[Fred Marvel]

Ignore the gl trolls, @Denzell and @Digit played at scr in a money match and both could give u some great input on the matchup.

im a troll for giving input on a matchup? smh

 

[Indecisive]

I disagree with quite a few. Here's what I think:

Ares, I'd say is 4-6 Ares. I've played Mr Aqua and a few others.
Bane feels like 6-4 Shazam. I play Grr all the time and while I often lose, it's bc he's better than me, not bc Shazam doesn't have the tools.
Batgirl 5-5. I've played a decent amount of sets w JRosa and SonicFox.
Doomsday 5-5.
Green Arrow might be 3-7, it's BAAAAD.
GL could be 3-7 or 4-6, it's not good.
Joker 4-6. His zoning and teeth really shut Shazam down.
KF 4-6. I've played Khaotic and a few others and while it's doable, it sucks.
Luthor 4-6. Shazam has a hard time getting rid of armor and preventing traps.
Lobo 6-4. Running away is key. Kinda like the Bane MU + shotgun.
MMH 5-5. 4-6 you say? COME ON.
NW could be 3-7. This might be his worst MU.
WW 5-5.
Zatanna 4-6. Might be worse. This MU sucks, it's basically a tougher version of the Ares MU.

Just my opinion here. You left a lot of characters blank--which surprises me--I thought you knew everything

. The ones i left blank is cause i had an Idea for the MU but didnt know for sure cause i didn't play the MU Enough. Its all Subject to change. Ares i still don't know. But its basically a run away game for Ares. I still don't think Shazam Beats Bane but is an Even MU. Batgirl ill Agree with. Doomsday is probably Correct. Arrow i actually wanted to Put down as a 3-7. But part of me didn't want to Really Admit it. Lantern well i explained it. Joker I still think is 5-5. Revolver said Lex is 5-5 with Shazam. But it may be in lex's Favor. I know Shazam Can do Torpedo Over Mine which is Cute. And i think his b123 String may be fast enough to get rid of armor. Have to actually play that out more. I agree KF Beats Shazam actually. I can Agree with LOBO. I really think MMH beats Shazam. Fuck Nightwing that is all. I need to Test the new Tech SonicFox/DMS Told me for WW. So that MU may now be 5-5. Zatnna I really don't know. I got to play Deg a bit. It may be 5-5 But never really know sometimes.

 

[Indecisive]

i am but with the way GL's air rockets work when he has trait, what youre saying is probably possible since theres less recovery but when he doesnt Shazam can get through them youre probably taking the wrong approach about it

So what do you think i should do in the MU. Then. Please dont just say get the knock down and win.

 

[MidTierHarley]

Yeah the GL vs Shazam matchup is ass, just trait up and ia oa rocket, GL doesnt need oki in this MU at all. End your combos with something like 233 4 and just back off. Shazam has to take way more risks to get it and do damage. Also, Blue Beetle beats Shazam 7-3

 

[Fred Marvel]

So what do you think i should do in the MU. Then. Please dont just say get the knock down and win.

not at all, i just think youre going about the zoning the wrong way, it sucks yes but if GL doesnt have trait you have to get in the gaprs beteen his rockets, dash up d2 or teleport, if you are close enough and get under a rocket you can also use torpedo, im just saying things ive seen

 

[MidTierHarley]

Heres why Blue Beetle vs Shazam is 7-3. Beetles mobility in trait gives him so many options to easily pressure Shazam with f2 and start his mixup game with Scarab. Similarly to Shazam Beetle getsto wakeup for free with Scarab ass well completely elimitaing Shazams oki game. Also, his scarab blaster forces Shazam to take many risks while getting while Beetle just builds free meter. I have played this matchup extensively with top Shazam players and this is how i feel on the matchup

 

[RNLDRGN]

if GL doesnt have trait you have to get in the gaps beteen his rockets, dash up and get yo sh*t grabbed by lanterns might every time. Torpedo and get LM. Teleport and get LM. Rinse, wash, LM.

FIXEDTHATFORYOU

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

im a troll for giving input on a matchup? smh

No comment lol, I am well aware of ur GL downplay .

 

[BunLantern]

The problem I see a lot of GL's make in this MU is going for set ups, which are NEVER going to work against a halfway decent Shazam. But that's ok, just end your combo in B223 or a turbine and trait up and slap minigun/air rockets. If Shazam doesn't get in during the start of the match it's all GL's game from there. Could be 7-3 I suppose

 

[Indecisive]

not at all, i just think youre going about the zoning the wrong way, it sucks yes but if GL doesnt have trait you have to get in the gaprs beteen his rockets, dash up d2 or teleport, if you are close enough and get under a rocket you can also use torpedo, im just saying things ive seen

Shazam is a better Character Online. So i guess i should be playing this game online. . I wish His D2 Actually Anti Air'D people at the Correct angles i want. His D2 Hit Box is really derpy. Like Really fucking Derpy. Teleport Can just put you into another Rocket. Even if you dont have to block it. There is another Rockey coming at you. Or a minigun. Shazam Actually Has No Answer to MB Minigun at all. Torpedo will get hit by the Next Rockey usually.

 

[MidTierHarley]

Shazam is a better Character Online. So i guess i should be playing this game online. . I wish His D2 Actually Anti Air'D people at the Correct angles i want. His D2 Hit Box is really derpy. Like Really fucking Derpy. Teleport Can just put you into another Rocket. Even if you dont have to block it. There is another Rockey coming at you. Or a minigun. Shazam Actually Has No Answer to MB Minigun at all. Torpedo will get hit by the Next Rockey usually.

Shazams teleport and torpedo are pretty much safe online

 

[Indecisive]

Shazams teleport and torpedo are pretty much safe online

YUP. Its fucking Great.

 

[SZSR]

While he can never do a single BnB in a connection with the slightest bit of delay. Shazam's got tradeoffs online.

 

[TopTierHarley]

Is the Harley MU really a 4-6 in her favor? I understand the zoning and b2 but is it that bad for Shazam?

 

[Indecisive]

Is the Harley MU really a 4-6 in her favor? I understand the zoning and b2 but is it that bad for Shazam?

Its the Zoning. All you really have to do is Shot Guns and there not a good enough Gap to Teleport through them. Its pretty tough to some extent.

 

[TopTierHarley]

Its the Zoning. All you really have to do is Shot Guns and there not a good enough Gap to Teleport through them. Its pretty tough to some extent.

Ah I see, well my zoning isn't consistent enough to have small gaps, so I always thought it was a 5-5. I'll have to test this offline with @Heroic_Legacy and PPJ whenever I get a chance to head up to GGA again