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Question How to not be a reactive player?

akaidon

Noob
Hello there. I'm trying to become a more competitive player in games as a whole and one thing I've struggled with all my life is having a reactive play style, kinda like a sit and wait type of approach. I usually sit and turtle, often losing to a good zoner or someone who really knows how to press offense, and forces me to react to their tactics. I lose control of games rather easily in my opinion be it MKX, Counter Strike, or any competitive game for that matter. In fighting games I seriously lack oki, and I crack under pressure of a very strong offensive push. I try to poke in the neutral as much as I can to create space and to stop an offensive push, but usually I just end up with my opponent running circles around me. In MKX I still haven't found my main yet, but I'm most experienced with Summoner Quan'Chi. I do not plan on sticking with Quan though.

What am I supposed to do to become more proactive and actually get consistent offensive pressure on my opponents and not get overwhelmed by strong offensive pushes?
 

bdizzle2700

gotta stay sharp!
In mkx you just gotta adjust on the fly. And see their character and be like hes really good at X so i should be doing Y. Your quan. So say your playing against a rush down charcter. You zone them out as best as you can and if they get in, you have a good life lead and thats when you poke and run or start your offense. If your going against a zoner take note and either out zone them or make your way in and start your offense. Your quan with solid zoning and hella dumb offense. So just adjust as best you can to fit the situation. If your gettin zoned and not that far in life. Zone back. If you are go in and make a comback.
 
don't play online.
maybe learn an entirely offensive character to help your play style.
maybe look into frame data on the characters that are giving you trouble and learn where you can poke or armour out.
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
Hello there. I'm trying to become a more competitive player in games as a whole and one thing I've struggled with all my life is having a reactive play style, kinda like a sit and wait type of approach. I usually sit and turtle, often losing to a good zoner or someone who really knows how to press offense, and forces me to react to their tactics. I lose control of games rather easily in my opinion be it MKX, Counter Strike, or any competitive game for that matter. In fighting games I seriously lack oki, and I crack under pressure of a very strong offensive push. I try to poke in the neutral as much as I can to create space and to stop an offensive push, but usually I just end up with my opponent running circles around me. In MKX I still haven't found my main yet, but I'm most experienced with Summoner Quan'Chi. I do not plan on sticking with Quan though.

What am I supposed to do to become more proactive and actually get consistent offensive pressure on my opponents and not get overwhelmed by strong offensive pushes?
Be who you are and make it work.

Make no excuses. Play the best players you can. When you lose, give props, re-think, and get back to it.

Eventually, you will find your way to the best way. Then, keep looking for new things - but stay you.

You is the best you you're ever going to be.
 

XxDark_

Noob
Hello there. I'm trying to become a more competitive player in games as a whole and one thing I've struggled with all my life is having a reactive play style, kinda like a sit and wait type of approach. I usually sit and turtle, often losing to a good zoner or someone who really knows how to press offense, and forces me to react to their tactics. I lose control of games rather easily in my opinion be it MKX, Counter Strike, or any competitive game for that matter. In fighting games I seriously lack oki, and I crack under pressure of a very strong offensive push. I try to poke in the neutral as much as I can to create space and to stop an offensive push, but usually I just end up with my opponent running circles around me. In MKX I still haven't found my main yet, but I'm most experienced with Summoner Quan'Chi. I do not plan on sticking with Quan though.

What am I supposed to do to become more proactive and actually get consistent offensive pressure on my opponents and not get overwhelmed by strong offensive pushes?
im not gonna type it all. if you want....add me. ill give you the run down of it all. and give you an idea of what you should be doing.
 

akaidon

Noob
Be who you are and make it work.

Make no excuses. Play the best players you can. When you lose, give props, re-think, and get back to it.

Eventually, you will find your way to the best way. Then, keep looking for new things - but stay you.

You is the best you you're ever going to be.
Interesting outlook, thanks for this.
 
Reactions: GAV

akaidon

Noob
don't play online.
maybe learn an entirely offensive character to help your play style.
maybe look into frame data on the characters that are giving you trouble and learn where you can poke or armour out.
It's more of just myself not being able to get a consistent offense going.
 

C88 Zombieekiler

Up and coming sub zero
Hello there. I'm trying to become a more competitive player in games as a whole and one thing I've struggled with all my life is having a reactive play style, kinda like a sit and wait type of approach. I usually sit and turtle, often losing to a good zoner or someone who really knows how to press offense, and forces me to react to their tactics. I lose control of games rather easily in my opinion be it MKX, Counter Strike, or any competitive game for that matter. In fighting games I seriously lack oki, and I crack under pressure of a very strong offensive push. I try to poke in the neutral as much as I can to create space and to stop an offensive push, but usually I just end up with my opponent running circles around me. In MKX I still haven't found my main yet, but I'm most experienced with Summoner Quan'Chi. I do not plan on sticking with Quan though.

What am I supposed to do to become more proactive and actually get consistent offensive pressure on my opponents and not get overwhelmed by strong offensive pushes?
You got xbox ill play you and see if i can help :)
 

akaidon

Noob
In mkx you just gotta adjust on the fly. And see their character and be like hes really good at X so i should be doing Y. Your quan. So say your playing against a rush down charcter. You zone them out as best as you can and if they get in, you have a good life lead and thats when you poke and run or start your offense. If your going against a zoner take note and either out zone them or make your way in and start your offense. Your quan with solid zoning and hella dumb offense. So just adjust as best you can to fit the situation. If your gettin zoned and not that far in life. Zone back. If you are go in and make a comback.
So it seems I'm just lacking in my fundamentals. I'm not very good at zoning with Quan and I feel that I don't really understand his projectile game. When I zone I feel like I'm just throwing out projectiles because I can, not because I'm trying to control space or keep them out.
 

akaidon

Noob
XxDark_Assasain....and yes I know its suppose to be assassin. I wasn't paying attention when creating the account and when I caught the misspell it was to late lol
That's a shame haha. I'll add you right now but I'm in class right now so it'll be a bit until I can play. Probably in about an hour
 

TackyHaddock

Salty Mashers Krew
Idk, I actually think reading and reacting is a solid strategy. I feel that I have the opposite problem - I often think in advance the type of offensive attack I want to do and then I just go ahead and do it without properly reading what the opponent is doing - this often leads to me getting punished. I think it is similar to when a quarterback decides for sure which receiver he is going to throw to before the ball is snapped (rather than reading the field correctly after the snap). I think that you always have to be focusing on what the opponent is doing and reacting accordingly, so that you are not just blindly going in for the attack.
 

Phase 3

Feels Good Man
I've spent a lot of time discussing these things with my local scene and there's certainly no one way to play that is inherently superior. I don't think becoming offense oriented or adopting a zoning style will immediately lead you to victory if it's not something with which you're comfortable.

In competitive Pokemon there's something called STAB. Same Type Attack Bonus. Let's say Squirtle uses Water Gun. This will do more damage because Squirtle is a Water Type. Let's say somehow you teach Charizard Water Gun, he will not get this bonus. Squirtle is rewarded by using tools of his nature.

I think fighting game characters are the same way. If you're comfortable being reactive, then find a character that rewards you for using those tools instead of a character who rewards mainly rushdown or nonstop zoning. I actually happen to be an extremely reactive player--turtling has been the foundation of my entire competitive career so I understand your frustration. Sometimes zoners can smother you from afar and rushdown can smother you from up close, so just find a character with tools to combat that and beyond anything, learn your matchups. To play defensively you have to know a lot of frame data--you have to know what's safe and what isn't so you can maximize your punishes. No point playing defensively if you don't know when or how to capitalize after you've correctly blocked the mixup/frame trap.

You just need to find a character with the right defensive tools: a character that can nullify projectiles or burst through blockstrings, or a character with excellent spacing or Anti Airs. It might mean you don't always play your favorite character if you feel more at home with an opposing playstyle, but that's a choice I suppose you'd have to make. I'll give you some examples of how I've been able to a pretty successfully turtle:

MK9 - I played a ton of Mileena. From afar you could block and buffer forward forward motions in between sais until you saw a projectile, then hit X on reaction to telekick. This kept zoners very honest from full screen. You could frustrate players in the neutral with d+4 and force them to jump, in which case you would roll on reaction. She could even low profile a ton of pressure, making some rushdown tactics hard to implement against a poke-happy Mileena. You could force people to play your game in a lot of matchups. She played a great turtle game and I've had a lot of success with it against top players.

KI - I immediately loved Spinal. He can absorb specials or teleport to combat zoning, he has great long range normals for poking in the neutal and once he has skulls he can zone so effectively. Obviously Spinal has a lot more going for him with run cancel pressure and crossups, but I'm just showing how he can be very comfortable in a reactionary role. Now at some point you will have to switch gears a little and go offense (which Spinal does brilliantly), but having defense be the foundation of your game can still work.

MKX - This timing is pretty humorous because I play Sun God Kotal and he just happened to be buffed. Things have been a little rough, but with this new patch I can a) parry many projectiles in the game to help combat zoning and b) more reliably anti air with his grab. These are huge for him because it will allow him to force certain characters to come to him, which is exactly what a reactionary player wants. He still has great ranged normals for punishing jumps or runs. I'm not saying he's top or anything but as a reactionary player I have to love these tools. Plus he can buff himself with parries so if you make the right defensive read or parry a projectile and open up the opponent, he's going to bop them hard about half their life. Nice thing is the AA and Parry buffs are not exclusive to SG Kotal--you could pick any variation and play defensively.

If you are most comfortable playing defensively that may never change--it certainly hasn't for me. Just find your "Same Type Attack Bonus" character and learn your matchups. It takes work but it's very rewarding to play your way and make your style work for you. Sorry for the novel but I just happen to know exactly how you're feeling. The right character with the right tools for you is out there, just find them and start learning matchups.
 

akaidon

Noob
Idk, I actually think reading and reacting is a solid strategy. I feel that I have the opposite problem - I often think in advance the type of offensive attack I want to do and then I just go ahead and do it without properly reading what the opponent is doing - this often leads to me getting punished. I think it is similar to when a quarterback decides for sure which receiver he is going to throw to before the ball is snapped (rather than reading the field correctly after the snap). I think that you always have to be focusing on what the opponent is doing and reacting accordingly, so that you are not just blindly going in for the attack.
Well yes this I understand, but maintaining pressure in my opinion I feel is more of a proactive thing rather than reactive. I feel like MKX favors the more proactive player when they press their advantage correctly and keep up consistent pressure, rather than the reactive player who is just trying to find a way out of pressure and a way to counter. I also feel that the way that I currently play does not work that well in small sets since the time is much more limited. I just feel like my opponent literally takes control of the entire game and I can't set the pace how I want it.
 

akaidon

Noob
I've spent a lot of time discussing these things with my local scene and there's certainly no one way to play that is inherently superior. I don't think becoming offense oriented or adopting a zoning style will immediately lead you to victory if it's not something with which you're comfortable.

In competitive Pokemon there's something called STAB. Same Type Attack Bonus. Let's say Squirtle uses Water Gun. This will do more damage because Squirtle is a Water Type. Let's say somehow you teach Charizard Water Gun, he will not get this bonus. Squirtle is rewarded by using tools of his nature.

I think fighting game characters are the same way. If you're comfortable being reactive, then find a character that rewards you for using those tools instead of a character who rewards mainly rushdown or nonstop zoning. I actually happen to be an extremely reactive player--turtling has been the foundation of my entire competitive career so I understand your frustration. Sometimes zoners can smother you from afar and rushdown can smother you from up close, so just find a character with tools to combat that and beyond anything, learn your matchups. To play defensively you have to know a lot of frame data--you have to know what's safe and what isn't so you can maximize your punishes. No point playing defensively if you don't know when or how to capitalize after you've correctly blocked the mixup/frame trap.

You just need to find a character with the right defensive tools: a character that can nullify projectiles or burst through blockstrings, or a character with excellent spacing or Anti Airs. It might mean you don't always play your favorite character if you feel more at home with an opposing playstyle, but that's a choice I suppose you'd have to make. I'll give you some examples of how I've been able to a pretty successfully turtle:

MK9 - I played a ton of Mileena. From afar you could block and buffer forward forward motions in between sais until you saw a projectile, then hit X on reaction to telekick. This kept zoners very honest from full screen. You could frustrate players in the neutral with d+4 and force them to jump, in which case you would roll on reaction. She could even low profile a ton of pressure, making some rushdown tactics hard to implement against a poke-happy Mileena. You could force people to play your game in a lot of matchups. She played a great turtle game and I've had a lot of success with it against top players.

KI - I immediately loved Spinal. He can absorb specials or teleport to combat zoning, he has great long range normals for poking in the neutal and once he has skulls he can zone so effectively. Obviously Spinal has a lot more going for him with run cancel pressure and crossups, but I'm just showing how he can be very comfortable in a reactionary role. Now at some point you will have to switch gears a little and go offense (which Spinal does brilliantly), but having defense be the foundation of your game can still work.

MKX - This timing is pretty humorous because I play Sun God Kotal and he just happened to be buffed. Things have been a little rough, but with this new patch I can a) parry many projectiles in the game to help combat zoning and b) more reliably anti air with his grab. These are huge for him because it will allow him to force certain characters to come to him, which is exactly what a reactionary player wants. He still has great ranged normals for punishing jumps or runs. I'm not saying he's top or anything but as a reactionary player I have to love these tools. Plus he can buff himself with parries so if you make the right defensive read or parry a projectile and open up the opponent, he's going to bop them hard about half their life. Nice thing is the AA and Parry buffs are not exclusive to SG Kotal--you could pick any variation and play defensively.

If you are most comfortable playing defensively that may never change--it certainly hasn't for me. Just find your "Same Type Attack Bonus" character and learn your matchups. It takes work but it's very rewarding to play your way and make your style work for you. Sorry for the novel but I just happen to know exactly how you're feeling. The right character with the right tools for you is out there, just find them and start learning matchups.
Okay I really like the Pokemon analogy since I used to play Showdown competitively. It really puts your point in to perspective for me. I also find it funny because I was actually considering Sun God KK, but I've only spent a few minutes with him in the lab. My only problem with KK is his projectile, I'm not a huge fan of it. Anyways, I'm not looking to entirely change my play style. I want to incorporate a better offensive game and have consistent pressure to control the pace of the match. I do actually love turtling and zoning, but it's definitely not working for me right now. I literally fall apart as soon as my enemy gets in, or when I have a chance to pressure them back on a knockdown or something but my oki game is just non existent.
 

XxDark_

Noob
Well yes this I understand, but maintaining pressure in my opinion I feel is more of a proactive thing rather than reactive. I feel like MKX favors the more proactive player when they press their advantage correctly and keep up consistent pressure, rather than the reactive player who is just trying to find a way out of pressure and a way to counter. I also feel that the way that I currently play does not work that well in small sets since the time is much more limited. I just feel like my opponent literally takes control of the entire game and I can't set the pace how I want it.
theres a balance you need to find...mkx is a momentum based game at times. its good to go on the offensive and apply pressure but you also need to know how and when to pick your opening. your pressure offense will come with a strong defense. you can react in such a way that is effective as well. for example. when I use buzzsaw kunglao...at a certain distance im just throwing low hats because im trying to bait out the jump in attack. once I see that they have jumped. that's when they get blown up by ex spin..or even regular spin if they are close enough because I was already looking for it so it was an easy reaction. also the opposite applies if im playing a lao that likes to teleport recklessly..ill just bait the teleport then react to it...so yea sometimes you just have to be patient and give your opponent enough room to hang themselves.. once they fuck up. capitalize on it and that's when you start your pressure.
 

XxDark_

Noob
Okay I really like the Pokemon analogy since I used to play Showdown competitively. It really puts your point in to perspective for me. I also find it funny because I was actually considering Sun God KK, but I've only spent a few minutes with him in the lab. My only problem with KK is his projectile, I'm not a huge fan of it. Anyways, I'm not looking to entirely change my play style. I want to incorporate a better offensive game and have consistent pressure to control the pace of the match. I do actually love turtling and zoning, but it's definitely not working for me right now. I literally fall apart as soon as my enemy gets in, or when I have a chance to pressure them back on a knockdown or something but my oki game is just non existent.
it takes some degree of skill to keep your opponent out with zoning in this game because they can quickly close the distance by running. so that's common. I feel like you should be able to get in on any of the "zoning" characters in the game including quan. for example. kenshi(balanced variation) the moment he tries to tele flurry. just neutral duck it...then run in..there is a lot of recovery on whiff.
 
Well yes this I understand, but maintaining pressure in my opinion I feel is more of a proactive thing rather than reactive. I feel like MKX favors the more proactive player when they press their advantage correctly and keep up consistent pressure, rather than the reactive player who is just trying to find a way out of pressure and a way to counter. I also feel that the way that I currently play does not work that well in small sets since the time is much more limited. I just feel like my opponent literally takes control of the entire game and I can't set the pace how I want it.
In my opinion, I don't think that playing a turtle/reactive style and an aggressive one are all that exclusive. You're basically looking at the situations in a similar way, except in your case, when you're out of ideas, you choose to block/back away/do nothing. The aggressive player in that situation will choose to do an attack instead. Usually an evasive attack, armor attack, or one that, if they guessed wrong, doesn't hurt them as bad.

There's a gray area where you can step into either mindset mid-game. Managing when you should "turn it on or off" is where you grow as a player. These people who are out-pacing you... is it strictly a character strength? If not, look at what they do when they make you block stuff, or when they whiff something. Since your nature is to turtle, their decisions may not "make sense" to you, but just focus on why they work AGAINST you.
 

akaidon

Noob
theres a balance you need to find...mkx is a momentum based game at times. its good to go on the offensive and apply pressure but you also need to know how and when to pick your opening. your pressure offense will come with a strong defense. you can react in such a way that is effective as well. for example. when I use buzzsaw kunglao...at a certain distance im just throwing low hats because im trying to bait out the jump in attack. once I see that they have jumped. that's when they get blown up by ex spin..or even regular spin if they are close enough because I was already looking for it so it was an easy reaction. also the opposite applies if im playing a lao that likes to teleport recklessly..ill just bait the teleport then react to it...so yea sometimes you just have to be patient and give your opponent enough room to hang themselves.. once they fuck up. capitalize on it and that's when you start your pressure.
That's one of my main mistakes I used to make in other games. I wouldn't press my advantage by punishing my enemies mistakes as hard as I should. I've been really trying to focus on my punish game this time around, but I still haven't quite found a character that I'm very comfortable on. Thanks a lot
 

akaidon

Noob
In my opinion, I don't think that playing a turtle/reactive style and an aggressive one are all that exclusive. You're basically looking at the situations in a similar way, except in your case, when you're out of ideas, you choose to block/back away/do nothing. The aggressive player in that situation will choose to do an attack instead. Usually an evasive attack, armor attack, or one that, if they guessed wrong, doesn't hurt them as bad.

There's a gray area where you can step into either mindset mid-game. Managing when you should "turn it on or off" is where you grow as a player. These people who are out-pacing you... is it strictly a character strength? If not, look at what they do when they make you block stuff, or when they whiff something. Since your nature is to turtle, their decisions may not "make sense" to you, but just focus on why they work AGAINST you.
Strictly character strength no definitely not. It's on my part for sure. I'm still trying to get my footing with a character and I'm just now beginning to figure out what and why certain things work against me so well. My friend plays Boneshaper, granted he's not very good, but I literally cannot get in on him, and if I don't he just uses the projectiles on me all game. It forces me to play HIS game rather than me making him play into my hands. I've always been forced into positions like this and for all my life that I've spent playing video games, I can't beat the enemy into my playing my game.