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Question Getting in against great spacing

redeyes

redeyes

Button Masher
Lately ive been playing anti static nitemare & mygod from the C88's

they have such amazing footsies and spacing its almost unbelievable

so my question is how do you get in on someone with amazing spacing?

do not say d4 ms -_-

cause the moment if i try to get in vs these guys weather it be with
d4
divekick
jump kick
deep jump kick
d1
ex kartwheel

anything they have an answer and i end up getting whiff punished or punished depending on what i try to use to get in. any tips at all are greatly appreciated as always!

(if you haven't noticed im trying to bring life back to the sonya forum <3)
 
GLoRToR

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
redeyes said:
they punish me.
Click to expand...
There is your answer then. :D
They are likely baiting your whiffs, you need to play it cool and wisen up to their strategies to find an answer to it. It's really hard to say anything specific without match footage but I've had this conversation with people who were complaining that my Jade needs a nerf or I should stop walking backwards. :D ~> You need to stop whiffing and start punishing. I'm sorry that I can't be any more specific at the moment but if you could show me a few matches I could at least give my point of view. I know that I don't particularly fear sonya because she's only a little less turtle free than Cage, but I've been smashed by good Sonyas before who simply waited for me to whiff one of my horribly unsafe moves and then punished me for a full combo. Twice over.
 
redeyes

redeyes

Button Masher
GLoRToR said:
There is your answer then. :D
They are likely baiting your whiffs, you need to play it cool and wisen up to their strategies to find an answer to it. It's really hard to say anything specific without match footage but I've had this conversation with people who were complaining that my Jade needs a nerf or I should stop walking backwards. :D ~> You need to stop whiffing and start punishing. I'm sorry that I can't be any more specific at the moment but if you could show me a few matches I could at least give my point of view. I know that I don't particularly fear sonya because she's only a little less turtle free than Cage, but I've been smashed by good Sonyas before who simply waited for me to whiff one of my horribly unsafe moves and then punished me for a full combo. Twice over.
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well my pain problem is when they get life lead and just space me out and i try to get in for damage. and they just lame me out.
and nitemare he plays cyrax so as im trying to get in my dodging a minefield of bombs and nets so i cant play it cool :/
 
McNasty

McNasty

Moist.
This will sound dumb but play footsies with them. A great example would be dizzy vs reo at dallas dizzy would move into range and take a step back baiting normals from kabal. Ex cartwheel works great for this, get into sonyas effective range and see what they do. Also dont be afraid to make them come to you(character dependent) sonya can hang out and play lame vs a lot of the cast.
 
P

Playpal

Noob
Spacing is something you learn through experience, more so than anything else. If they're just walking backwards, you can dash up and d4. Obviously, you need to know the spacing of your dash and your d4, or else it'll whiff. When they're walking backwards, dash up and go for a string at where they're going to be, not where they are. You're aiming at a moving target. It's also good to be wary of any strings they have that are faster than yours, such as JC's f3. Yes, Sonya's d4 has more range but JC's f3 is faster and he can use this to his advantage. Problem, it's easier to bait and punish F3 than it is d4. This means he has to f3 when he is in d4 range and with so much range he can easily be whiff punished. So having good spacing and footsies means knowing your character, knowing the match up and making solid reads.
 
GLoRToR

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
redeyes said:
unless the back up and they both wiff and i a combo.
Click to expand...
You need to leave the mindset of advocating against yourself. Yes, there is an answer to everything you do. But guess what. There is an answer to all those answers, too.
So ask the right questions for the answers that they give.
 
DownfouralitY

DownfouralitY

Noob
How do I improve my Kabal game? I cant stop myself from using the same patterns and I get pretty predictible from the 3rd match onwards. Any advice? Btw redeyes, you want to play sometime?
 
GLoRToR

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
V1Gilante said:
How do I improve my Kabal game? I cant stop myself from using the same patterns and I get pretty predictible from the 3rd match onwards. Any advice? Btw redeyes, you want to play sometime?
Click to expand...
You need to play others to discover meta that is not necessarily innate to your character or your own personal safety zone. Alternatively just be a machine like REO.
 
Eminent

Eminent

Forum Lurker
I think your problem might be that you're being too aggressive. I have that problem too.
But if they don't have life lead you don't necessarily have to chase them.

Sonya's ring toss recovers very fast. I feel like if Cyrax is bullying you with bombs and nets you aren't using ring toss enough.
 
redeyes

redeyes

Button Masher
Eminent said:
I think your problem might be that you're being too aggressive. I have that problem too.
But if they don't have life lead you don't necessarily have to chase them.

Sonya's ring toss recovers very fast. I feel like if Cyrax is bullying you with bombs and nets you aren't using ring toss enough.
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trust me if i get life lead i try to zone out that broken robot only thing is 1 bad trade = dead sonya
 
Eminent

Eminent

Forum Lurker
Nets and bombs aren't that fast. You should be able to pull it off and block in time (or dodge the bombs). It will be very annoying for him at the least.
 
CrimsonShadow

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
There's a bunch of misdirection and not-quite-answers here (except for Playpal, who was very helpful). Usually the best way to answer questions like this is to do the following:

1) Find a couple of great Sonyas (riu48, Showtime, Clint)

2) Start looking at match videos.. And see how they get in against people that try to space them out. Steal whatever they do :)

then additionally:

3) See how people do this in general with -any- non-teleporting character, because a lot of the rules of spacing and pressure apply to more than 1 char. Watching someone like Dizzy (like McNasty was hinting) get in on characters that zone and space can be helpful to a players of multiple other characters.

Remember that you can dash forward faster than someone can dash or walk backward.. So instead of trying to use the normals to get in, use your dashblock and then pick your moments.
 
DownfouralitY

DownfouralitY

Noob
GLoRToR said:
You need to play others to discover meta that is not necessarily innate to your character or your own personal safety zone. Alternatively just be a machine like REO.
Click to expand...
Oh, trust me. I've watched insane amounts of videos with REO in it, I model my Kabal after him. Thank you :)
 
Justice

Justice

Noob
Remember, the name of the game isn't to get in, it's to do more damage to your opponent than they do to you; lifelead or not. Lifelead does make things easier but Sonya is one of those characters that can come back from a deficit.

What's happening is that you're playing their game, not your own. Make them be where you want them to be. And for the record, Sonya isn't the only one that fucked if they make one mistake vs Cyrax ;)

The first thing I would suggest is to record your own matches and watch them a day or two later. Analyze what your opponent is doing and how you're reacting to it. See how they are actually baiting you even when you think you are throwing things naked. And don't panic if you don't have the lifelead. It's not the end of the world.

You didn't mention any specific matchups that you had a problem with other than Cyrax so I'll address that one. This is one of Sonya's few matchups where she actually wants to zone to a degree. Create space from the get go since Rings has excellent recovery. This will make Cyrax work to get his bombs out while you can safely block any nets he might throw to stop you. You'll still have to watch for his bombs, but it won't be as bad as all that. Cyrax then needs to come to you, setting you up in punishment situations.

For someone like Cage, if you get caught in F3 shenanigans, you have two choices: you can block and get chipped into oblivion (or get meter for a breaker) or you can EX Kartwheel; but the inputs have to be done before the F3 comes out.

Sonya is the antithesis of the "dumb blonde". She has soo many tools at her disposal, almost too many so you really need to out-think your opponent. For example, you know that Dive Kick is unsafe so instead of trying to use it to get in, concentrate on making your opponent try to poke you and punish it with an IaDK.

Hopefully, this will getcha started :)
 
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