Frame data question

[Sasuga]

Hey guys. I (and probably others) have seen some weird thing about frame data. There are lots of moves that have a lot of plusframes on hit. The weird thing is, when you follow these moves up with moves that have shorter startup than than the plusframes, it doesn't connect.

Take for example batgirl's 111, b12. 111 is like +20 on hit according to the framedata (not sure, i'm not behind my console) and the b1 has less startup. Does this mean the framedata is incorrect or is the opponent simply able to block earlier than he is able to act? How does this work?

 

[Disaster FX]

There is no such thing as linking normals to more normals on a grounded opponent, without the use of cancels like Black Adam orbs. Instead, the game will just flat out give you the frame advantage without possible follow ups. For Batgirl in particular, this means she can safely set up a 50/50 overhead or low mixup because of the massive frame advantage from her 111 string. Most of the frame data us correct, just linking grounded normals into more normals isn't a feature of this game.

 

[Dizzy]

Hey guys. I (and probably others) have seen some weird thing about frame data. There are lots of moves that have a lot of plusframes on hit. The weird thing is, when you follow these moves up with moves that have shorter startup than than the plusframes, it doesn't connect.

Take for example batgirl's 111, b12. 111 is like +20 on hit according to the framedata (not sure, i'm not behind my console) and the b1 has less startup. Does this mean the framedata is incorrect or is the opponent simply able to block earlier than he is able to act? How does this work?

This has to do with the game engine, there is no links (normally).

You generally cannot link strings or single moves into others on a grounded opponent. If you could, d1 d1 d1 d1 times infinity would work since they are over generally +10 or so on hit.

The example you gave is what is referred to as a "stagger state" where they are at massive disadvantage yet can block. Hit advantage in Injustice is handled much more like a 3D fighting game than a 2D game.

The only links are special cases like Scorpion's trait can be combo'd after on hit.

 

[Sasuga]

Ok, that makes sense somehow. So basically, only when you cancel a move into another, the followup move ignores blocking while the opponent is in stagger? And counts as combo hits?

I'm trying to make sense of this at a fundamental level.

 

[Dizzy]

Ok, that makes sense somehow. So basically, only when you cancel a move into another, the followup move ignores blocking while the opponent is in stagger? And counts as combo hits?

I'm trying to make sense of this at a fundamental level.

If you cancel into a special move, it counts as a combo because it's added into the string. This is why something like batgirls 111 into batarang combos if it is a cancel (done in one fluid motion) yet if you do 111, wait, batarang, it will not combo.

 

[JaredL]

In general, you can't link strings into strings on a grounded opponent without cancelling your recovery frames. Back when the game was day one old, before the day one patch, characters with any cancel could have an infinite. So, aquaman could do anything with lots of hit stun, water shield cancel, and carry on... same with flash, catwoman and so on. That got fixed.

So now, unless you have orbs of seth, or you link into a special, or your opponent is in a juggle state, you won't link. If you could... it'd pretty much be full of infinites.