Fighting game archetypes and the next MK: A better way to balance

[Error404]

Kano should not be a zoning character in mk 10 imo. What exactly about a thug that fights with knives sounds like runaway

 

[ChaosTheory]

I miss you bro. you playing KI glacius like your avatar led us all to believe for the last 5 years?

MichaelSoFly... change your name back. No, I didn't get KI. I was excited about the announcement, but I'm not really into the free-to-play, Angry Birds model they forced out the door to sell consoles. I was hoping for a more complete game/experience. So I'll wait.

...Where the hell did you come from LOL?

Long time no see.

It's about that time. I had to take my MKDC hiatus part 2 when Injustice came out. Figured it's about time that some MK10 news showed up

 

[True Grave]

@Qwark28 Sub is a turtle. I play sub as a main, but I've developed a rushdown sub as opposed to the cliche turtle sub. Majority says that sub is a turtle because he can hide behind his clone. Plain and simply, he can do both, but he is mostly turtle based on normal use if the character. Likewise with reo playing MMH and Jupiter playing MMH. One's a rushdown, and the other is a zoner. It's basically comes down to how you Olay said character after they have been given an archetype.

 

[Qwark28]

@Qwark28 Sub is a turtle. I play sub as a main, but I've developed a rushdown sub as opposed to the cliche turtle sub. Majority says that sub is a turtle because he can hide behind his clone. Plain and simply, he can do both, but he is mostly turtle based on normal use if the character. Likewise with reo playing MMH and Jupiter playing MMH. One's a rushdown, and the other is a zoner. It's basically comes down to how you Olay said character after they have been given an archetype.

That's false for MK9 and for Subzero.

Subzero is whatever the matchup allows him to be.

I also main Sub.

If you disagree and wanna compare playstyles then go ahead and turtle kenshi, kabal, freddy, noob, smoke etc

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

MichaelSoFly... change your name back. No, I didn't get KI. I was excited about the announcement, but I'm not really into the free-to-play, Angry Birds model they forced out the door to sell consoles. I was hoping for a more complete game/experience. So I'll wait.



It's about that time. I had to take my MKDC hiatus part 2 when Injustice came out. Figured it's about time that some MK10 news showed up

Haha. Glad we pulled you out of retirement. And I like my name now. Lol. Mesofly was so high school

 

[BanTheTesters]

Rushdown - Plus frames and pressure to catch your opponent pressing buttons. Quick movement and walk speed but very limited ranged options. Strong footsies and mid to high damage.
Johnny Cage

 

[True Grave]

That's false for MK9 and for Subzero.

Subzero is whatever the matchup allows him to be.

I also main Sub.

If you disagree and wanna compare playstyles then go ahead and turtle kenshi, kabal, freddy, noob, smoke etc

Hence why I said he's built like a turtle. Although depending on your play style and/or MU, it will determine how you have to play.

Edit: Yes, the MU again smoke for example is really hard, but can be done. Also , just because he's built a certain way doesn't mean you have to play that way. Sub is a turtle, but through meta-game, he has evolved into a possible rushdown character with frame traps the godlike 22~iceball as an AA. We should get some games in since you're playing it more now.

 

[Qwark28]

Hence why I said he's built like a turtle. Although depending on your play style and/or MU, it will determine how you have to play.

Pretty much what I said a page ago.

 

[True Grave]

Pretty much what I said a page ago.

Lol what I said in my post too

 

[RM AtK!]

Blade charge is a poking tool to get ppl in the corner and check them, as well as get a knockdown fullscreen vs projectiles.

D3 was 6f into a 0f blade tango dance or whatever

D4 was excelent

221+2 was +8 and he was + in many other things

@1man3letters can explain better

a poking tool? lmao more like an anti air/space control / wiff punisher if they are too far tool

 

[Qwark28]

a poking tool? lmao more like an anti air/space control / wiff punisher if they are too far tool

Which is a poking tool...

 

[STRYKIE]

He's not a turtle. Most players made the mistake of thinking he's supposed to lay Ice Clones and run away the entire match. That's why most Sub-Zero players were fucking terrible and thus considered him bottom 5 or whatever the consensus is.

This is essentially true, but..

 

[ChaosTheory]

So was Baraka a shitter because of zoning, or was it because there were other characters that were strictly better?

In my opinion, the latter part of your question is what made characters "shitters." It's not their own design that's the problem for the most part. Overall, I'd say, those are the balanced characters in the game. It's when you compare them to the high tiers and their bullshit that they look "shitty" in comparison.

Those high tier characters either don't have the risk-reward element that other characters have to worry about... or their strong points are so strong it covers up other weaknesses.

So solid characters in their own right end up looking "shitty" when, in my opinion, the issue is actually the higher tiers being oversaturated with bullshit.

 

[ChaosTheory]

Haha. Glad we pulled you out of retirement. And I like my name now. Lol. Mesofly was so high school

And these message boards aren't? Haha. Come back to high school with me, Meso.

 

[RM AtK!]

Which is a poking tool...

not really.. a d4 is a "poking tool" a blade charge that could be punished is not

 

[Qwark28]

not really.. a d4 is a "poking tool" a blade charge that could be punished is not

So, you're telling me a poking tool can't be punished?

Lol man, nvm.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

That's false for MK9 and for Subzero.

Subzero is whatever the matchup allows him to be.

I also main Sub.

If you disagree and wanna compare playstyles then go ahead and turtle kenshi, kabal, freddy, noob, smoke etc

LOL

no

he's not what the matchup allows him to be.

You cant' rush down half the cast simply because his stuff doesn't always work.

He's no where close to being a jack of all trades you make him sound like.... at all.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Great job on the list FLY, i'm just going to confirm on Skarlet by quoting a Private message of mine to Redraptor10 a few days ago.

...the best way of playing Skarlet is noticed when you know how to switch your gears, the exact moment to go for rushdown, to play turtle, or to go for oki setups or baits.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I always though Nightwolf was more about footsies/whiff punishing?

Nightwolf in trilogy used the like a violent truck comming at high speed to rape you before you think of attacking, seeing what NRS did to him in Mk9 definitely was an Injustice, i remember of him being the 1st character i picked when the disk came on, and from that point i felt really off.

Hell, he is the most popular character in Angola, lots of ppl turned down Mk9 when they noticed he sucked

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Stryker was also a footsie and counter-zoning character. I mean you're not keeping anyone out with gun shots and grenades. Gun shot and gun cancels were more a way to condition/bait and build meter. But it was not a strong move for keepaway purposes. He had a decent projectile trap and mindgames for zoning but I never thought of him as a pure zoner.

roll toss/ex roll toss -> main counter zoning tool
ex gun shot -> counter zoning tool to keep zoning adv when you would otherwise lose it
ex grenade -> counter zoning tool to win trades vs zoners when you have life lead
gun cancel Jump Kick -> counter zoning tech / counter teleport
gun cancel D1/D4 -> counter teleport / counter counter-zoning (lol)

So really he had better counter moves than actual zoning tools.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Stryker was also a footsie and counter-zoning character. I mean you're not keeping anyone out with gun shots and grenades. Gun shot and gun cancels were more a way to condition and build meter. But it was not a strong move for keepaway purposes. He had a decent projectile trap and mindgames for zoning but I never thought of him as a pure zoner.

i struggled on where to put Stryker...lol

 

[Qwark28]

LOL

no

he's not what the matchup allows him to be.

You cant' rush down half the cast simply because his stuff doesn't always work.

He's no where close to being a jack of all trades you make him sound like.... at all.

I didn't say he can, I said he must play however he can deal with the current matchup.

 

[1man3letters]

Blade charge is a poking tool to get ppl in the corner and check them, as well as get a knockdown fullscreen vs projectiles.

D3 was 6f into a 0f blade tango dance or whatever

D4 was excelent

221+2 was +8 and he was + in many other things

@1man3letters can explain better

Only reason I dodn't put him in rushdown was because he isn't plus on anything and doesn't really have good pressure. I'd put him in vortex before I put him in rushdown. His AA plus blade charge made him a wall that could get you to the corner but his toolset doesn't seem rushdown like to me.

baraka was a footsie based rushdown char if was to be called something,
baraka had +8, +10 and +11 frametraps and unlinke cage when you could just dash block to set up the pressure baraka had to use other things like d4, the fear of blade charge etc to get his jump ins to start pressure.
he also got mad meter and chip from that which gave me meter to get back in for if you got him off u.

as far as saying he was a vortex char, i say he was more of a mixup char because he standing resets were only really good in corner, midscreen there were meh.
your right about the wall part though lol

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I didn't say he can, I said he must play however he can deal with the current matchup.

I hear what you are saying but am struggling a little. Can't that statement be true for every character in every game? In fact can't it be more so true for those characters with the uphill battle as they are forced to play their opponents game? I'm just trying to understand why what your saying is only applicable to sub to take him out of his archetype

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

baraka was a footsie based rushdown char if was to be called something,
baraka had +8, +10 and +11 frametraps and unlinke cage when you could just dash block to set up the pressure baraka had to use other things like d4, the fear of blade charge etc to get his jump ins to start pressure.
he also got mad meter and chip from that which gave me meter to get back in for if you got him off u.

as far as saying he was a vortex char, i say he was more of a mixup char because he standing resets were only really good in corner, midscreen there were meh.
your right about the wall part though lol

I would classify that as turtle. To me a turtle character is one that ducks and moves and waits for you to mess up to whiff punish. its not pure rushdown in the cage or kabal sense but obviosuly he has to get in to win.