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Breakthrough - Lackey "Torrvex" the vortex-type tech

Parnak

Fight me as you will yet you can never hope to win
My fellow FerraTorrians, I am bringing you Torrific news!

I was thinking on it after I realized (thanks to Forr's feedback) that my previously posted tech could not provide a vortex, mainly due to the fact that the frame advantage diminishes for normals when they are added to prolonged combos, but even if that wasn't the case, still a +11 wouldn't provide vortex, since Torr's overhead starter is 23 frames for the Lackey Variation.

Then, the idea came to me and I figured it out.. The solution was right in front of our eyes, yet we could not see it, perhaps because the key-move for the setup happens to be a strong stand alone move with special properties, that I didn't see before for what it is; the best combo ender in the game-period! Talking about special B, F3 the Torr Charge and yeah!, it can be applied to kombos! I am glad to present to you the untechable vortex of the Lackey Variation. Rolltex thankfully is just as good, but if I'm not mistaken, Torrvex is even better, but that is for the community to ascertain in due time..

B, F3 has just so much of what it takes for a great tool; almost safe at -9 on block (creates some space on block, so practically is safe), a humongous +45 advantage on hit, can be enhanced to increase damage (do this only if it kills, because that gets them out of the vortex) has native free armor on start-up that turns into invincibility against projectiles and furthermore, it provides an untechable hard knockdown!

Straight to the point, Torr Charge can link with 4 & F2 to end kombos. That requires low to medium gravity and early execution. I was so moved when I first saw it happen.! Then, it bestows abundant amount of time to choose from a variety of actions, such as walk, dash, walk a tiny bit and then Jump in Punch, even with Jip2! Hell, you could even Run over them! Your goal is simply to use an overhead/low mix-up in order to initiate another kombo ending yet again with B, F3 to full circle/reset the situation.

This is a repeating tech that if abused to its fullest, it should prove impossible to escape (meaning they will have to block and hope they block right) by anything except for some armored or invincible wake-ups. But the time is ample to take a read and bait armored wake-ups. You can do whatever you like if you 're quick, run up next to them and crossover, run over them..

In the video I have examples of it blowing up Kung Lao's frikkin' wake-up Spin !!:), Kung Lao's backdash wake-up, catching them with Jip2 before they can jump away, effectively comboing B2 overhead starter from Jip or on its own after a dash (you don't even have to spend your energy bar to run:coffee:), connecting F2 simply by WALKING:eek: to utilize max distance and protect yourself, whiffing Jip2 due to their delayed recovery, then catch 'em right away with a F2.. In the last part of the video I have some combo examples off of all the basic starters that lead into the vortex. Also check out the texts in the up-right corner of the video, they try to say what takes place in each segment.


NOTES
The damage is good even! It reaches the 30s! Great damage for a setup combo. You also don't have to change your combos, if you need a bit more damage to end the round, you can enhance Torr Charge, this adds an unscaled +8, rising the damage up to 40%! And all these combos provide the certainty that they cannot be tech rolled, and this allows one to focus more to inputs and reads. The Vortex Kombos ain't very hard, unfortunately there is a chance for 4 to whiff if you input it as early as possible, but the input of 4 HAS to be early, else B, F3 won't reach them in time to hit. F2~F2 combo can also become vortex if you cancel 2nd F2 to B, F3 but there are more damaging vortex alternatives from F2.

This should empower Torr, I'm sensing shades of tier ladder climbing? For Ferra's sake, Torr needs to get even stronger.! Torrvex has become real, it would seem.. I'm eager to see how tournament players will put the tech to use..
 
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Parnak

Fight me as you will yet you can never hope to win
What is stopping me from doing a armored wake up, tech roll, back dash?
This move cannot be tech rolled. Back dash is destroyed if you choose B2 string. Armored wake up you need meter, but Torr has more time to act than you in this situation, should he read your armored wake-up and respond with his EX Torryuken, you get comboed. It is all said in the thread and shown in the video (tech roll backdash)
 

Parnak

Fight me as you will yet you can never hope to win
Sigh.. It's not a vortex if it doesn't loop back into itself.. They can armour out.
Is there anything that cannot be armored out in this game? This comes around all opponent options apart from armor. And armor can still be baited and is not always available. And not all armored moves lead to a combo.
 

QUAN-FUSION

Crotch-puncher
Exactly..
Vortexs leave you standing with only the option to guess high low.

This is just a knockdown into 50/50.
 

Shade667

#StrongisthenewCute
Yeah, Unfortunately the only vortex F/T has is from enhanced throws. Which I make good use of in Vicious.

Ill still see about making use of this though.
 

SPY

Noob
Yeah, plenty of stuff. You can't armor out of Quan Chi's vortex because it restands you. That's how most vortex's are. Shinnok's, Cassie's, Ermac's etc.
No, that is just MK9-MKX style of vortex and it's only possible because specific type of hitstun where you cannot act but only block during it.
Originally, vortex just forces you to make hard guess to get out of situation and if you guess wrong it's loops into itself, as shown in the video.
Anyway @Parnak good tech, thanks for sharing! I really hope with that all new tech we'll see diversity of characters and stronger competition in tournaments.
 

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
Official ESL Gaming
No, that is just MK9-MKX style of vortex and it's only possible because specific type of hitstun where you cannot act but only block during it.
Originally, vortex just forces you to make hard guess to get out of situation and if you guess wrong it's loops into itself, as shown in the video.
First of all, I didn't even talk about what a vortex is in my post, I was just answering a question.

Also Vortexes are never "if they do anything on wakeup it loses" they're always safe to wakeup in some way, otherwise they would just be called "a knockdown into oki" which everybody has.
 

CamRac

AKA: Gentle Cam
What is stopping me from doing a armored wake up, tech roll, back dash?
If it's hard knockdown, then there isn't an option to tech roll. Armored wakeup becomes the guessing game. Do backdashes have invincibility frames in MKX?
 

Shade667

#StrongisthenewCute
If it's hard knockdown, then there isn't an option to tech roll. Armored wakeup becomes the guessing game. Do backdashes have invincibility frames in MKX?
They do. I dont know how much of the backdash exactly though. I think thats the reason it uses stamina.
 

chrisofrays

Fish can hear you thinkin just before you sneeze
Are you guys able to combo into charge consistently? Im having trouble in training mode getting it to consistently connect after an overhead starter or a combo using EX torryuken. The knockdown is so good. Real easy to hit the meaty window and crush armour. I cant wait to get this combo down!
 

chrisofrays

Fish can hear you thinkin just before you sneeze
Been practicing this again. I seem to get it more often when I catch them with a Late F2. Like almost touching the ground.
 

chrisofrays

Fish can hear you thinkin just before you sneeze
Was messing around with some combos that end in charge i noticed after landing it you can empty jump and buffer charge. it will be perfectly timed to beat sub zero and reptiles EX slide

Might not work with the longer combos like overhead starter and EX torryuken starters but raw charge and F2, 4 charge worked fine for me
 

Nonameformedude

That Yung Big Body
Was messing around with some combos that end in charge i noticed after landing it you can empty jump and buffer charge. it will be perfectly timed to beat sub zero and reptiles EX slide
This specific thing is what got me really excited about this variation, his oki options are really good. When ending combos with the charge I would instantly run for timing and instantly JI2 out of the run to hit meaty on a normal wake up(which would also keep you safe from certain opponents wake ups), or you could empty jump charge to beat wake ups with the free armor. Beating a wake ups like that puts you right back into the same loop, and it's really fun to do. I felt the overhead into charge combo was really inconsistent though so I stopped playing the variation even though it was the most fun one to play with. Even changing the setup to something more consistent, you have to work too hard with this character which takes the fun out of it for me...but regardless, I do believe as long as you end the combo with charge that set up works(it just doesn't work against all wake ups.)
 

Parnak

Fight me as you will yet you can never hope to win
Was messing around with some combos that end in charge i noticed after landing it you can empty jump and buffer charge. it will be perfectly timed to beat sub zero and reptiles EX slide

Might not work with the longer combos like overhead starter and EX torryuken starters but raw charge and F2, 4 charge worked fine for me
Yeah man, I was testing that on practice too.! Such great use of free armor! Provided the meter you can try empty jump to EX Torryuken too. You can also dash in, hit down to duck instantly and then input immediately B1,2,1 string for timing to stuff wake ups & hit confirm into EX Torryuken. Also, empty jump in to block is such a great way to bait & punish wake-ups! I wanted this thing so badly to be a vortex, it is probably the closest we 'll get to a vortex with this innovative in design character. Still, it does have some vortex traits, it can loop through combos, because what you thought (empty jump to Charge) brings up the same situation if hits.. Also keep in mind that you can enhance Charge after using it as ender, to add a nice unscaled +8, almost reaching the damage of hard advanced metered combos!
 

Parnak

Fight me as you will yet you can never hope to win
This specific thing is what got me really excited about this variation, his oki options are really good. When ending combos with the charge I would instantly run for timing and instantly JI2 out of the run to hit meaty on a normal wake up(which would also keep you safe from certain opponents wake ups), or you could empty jump charge to beat wake ups with the free armor. Beating a wake ups like that puts you right back into the same loop, and it's really fun to do. I felt the overhead into charge combo was really inconsistent though so I stopped playing the variation even though it was the most fun one to play with. Even changing the setup to something more consistent, you have to work too hard with this character which takes the fun out of it for me...but regardless, I do believe as long as you end the combo with charge that set up works(it just doesn't work against all wake ups.)
There is perfect timing to stuff any unarmored wake up, even Cassie's 6 fr. flip but is hard to do and requires minor adjusting of the frames spent walking towards before jumping, depending on each combo's gravity.. For Jip~B2, 3, 2+4~F2~4xxTorr Charge (max gravity) you have to jump in almost immediately to stuff let's say Cassie's 6 frame flip. You can also alter the timing to punish back dash wake-up if you read it.. At the very least, it is a threat to use for immediate empty jump ins into block as bait for armored wake-ups..