Breakthrough - Cyber Sub-Zero CSZ Nerfs

[SOLEdier]

Wait wait wait wait....either I misread this or I'm about to get punked......His iceball nerf makes it so that if I JiP > [starter] > iceball, I now need to enhance to iceball for it to connect or else it's too slow?

Is this correct? I just want to know because if this is true then this is single handedly the DUMBEST fucking thing I've read....and I was on Youtube

I can confirm B1xxIceBall and F13xxIceBall do not work anymore. B3xxIceBall and 111 not 11 Ice Ball work. B1 and F13 only work in the corner.

 

[RetribuZion14]

I'm at a loss for words with what they have done to this character. I feel like I've just wasted a month of my time right now after spending an hour + in the lab and another 2 online....WTF HAVE THEY DONE TO MY NEW MAIN?!?!?!... CURSE YOUR ASSES NTHR-RLM!!!....R.I.P. Cyber Sub!

 

[Eddy Wang]

well i also use sektor so, i have no problem dropping Csz for the clearly more well rouneded character.

i get the feeling they won't be happy until we have mk9 Subzero all over again, honestly the only difference is that this cyber sub has an armored move and has some dirt in the corner, other than that, they're shaping up to be pretty identical.

nerfing the divekick even further made no sense either, the dive kick isnt like other characters dive kicks, he doesnt really get anything off it like a knockdown or major advantage, i think on hit he's only like +2? if they block it hes now full combo punishable no matter what he does....honestly i don't think it should be full combo punishable, they shoulda left it the way it was, safe-ish depending on where you get it, or at the very least give good advantage on hit to get in and do something, cuz right now its mostly a high risk low reward move, so whats the point unless you are reacting to a projectile with slow recovery or somethng. and even then all you get is just a little bit of damage.

This is something you should be discussing with Paulo or 16 Bit, not me lol, because i can't get a doomed variation buffed no matter how detailed videos or graphical hints i put on TYM they just hold no value.

I know its sucks man, there is a saying in TYM some learn the hard way "Palo giveth, Palo take ith away" don't expect anything to make sense at all unless NRS simpatizes with a character, like Kitana who somehow got more buffs, or Quan when he was top and still got buffed.

 

[SnowboardRX]

Maybe I'll play Takeda. Godlike char that NRS refuses to "normalize".

Stay away from him. Lol

 

[Invincible Salads]

This is something you should be discussing with Paulo or 16 Bit, not me lol, because i can't get a doomed variation buffed no matter how detailed videos or graphical hints i put on TYM they just hold no value.

I know its sucks man, there is a saying in TYM some learn the hard way "Palo giveth, Palo take ith away" don't expect anything to make sense at all unless NRS simpatizes with a character, like Kitana who somehow got more buffs, or Quan when he was top and still got buffed.

right about now i really would LOVE a 1on1 with paulo, just so i could ask em what the hell is going on over there at nrs and how these idea's for nerfs came about, because i'd really like to know.

 

[1man3letters]

Cyber Sub HAD a basic game plan.

Play the fullscreen game and with the threat of a shotgun ice ball trade, then you are taken to the corner, that was his basic design, and it is no longer.

He has no up close game and he has horrific mids, he can't work with any of those now as an adaption to the patch, and his damage has gotten worse, considering his mid screen combo damage wasn't what won him any games.

He is a bit of a mess right now, but maybe in time he won't be, but for right now, I don't have time in a week to redevelop a plan to play him before Glasgow.

So I feel the frustration with the UK/EU guys that main him right now, or at least had plans to.

yea that sucks for you with hypespotting so close, back to throwing sai's i guess??
the twins aswell since cyrax got "overhauled" and sektor lost his b1 2+4 setup ketchup found

do agree with thtb that alot of the triborg changes are "better save than sorry" kinda stuff but find it strange they'll do that to where it messes up the old build/playstyle but then the likes of alien get a slap on the wrist and not much has changed

 

[ghostwriteous]

I hate to say it, but Im finally starting to believe that Paulo doesn't really know what he's doing big picture wise.

 

[Moose]

With the slower ice ball you can choose what side to do 111xxice combos on.
You can now consistently land a JI2 on the front or back of your opponent after a freeze and drone summon.
Maybe this helps him maintain the corner, Idk
@YOMI REO or anyone who still likes csz

 

[babalook]

there are a lot of moves he basically can't punish anymore (without meter) because of his f13 and f4 into iceball no longer connecting. I honestly don't see why he was nerfed, he wasn't even THAT good before this nerf, they shit on everything he excelled at while simultaneously making his weaknesses even worse.

 

[Kindred]

Like What the fuck. I'm so fucking pissed. MK9 Cyber sub is looking better than this fucking piece of shit right now. Fuck NRS. Sorry but I'm the last person to bitch about patches and all that because I only have 2 mains, Ermac and CSZ. Now I guess it's back to just ermac. I have to fucking use a meter just to do a combo above 20%...are you fucking kidding me....who else has shit like this. Fucking nerf CSZ fine....but this isnt nerfing, this is driving a stick up his ass Vlad the impaler style. Seriously fuck whoever came up with this shit. Did a CSZ player run over their dog? What the fuck man.

 

[Kindred]

Isnt [Starter] > [special to stagger] a fucking basic move of ALL characters. Sub can do it, Scopion can with his spear, ermac does F4 into soulball, etc....this HAS to be a mistake. It's so weird to take that away from CSZ

(Sorry for double post)

 

[iAteUrLife]

Isnt [Starter] > [special to stagger] a fucking basic move of ALL characters. Sub can do it, Scopion can with his spear, ermac does F4 into soulball, etc....this HAS to be a mistake. It's so weird to take that away from CSZ

(Sorry for double post)

My point exactly

 

[Kindred]

we should flood their facebook with messages so they either fix this mistake or fire the moron responsible for this decision before fixing the mistake

 

[babalook]

I don't understand why they didn't buff some things, like if they were trying to change his whole gameplan, but it seems like they just wanted to make him shit. So I have 50/50's but I have to use meter to get the lowest dmging combos in the game, he's shit at close, medium, and far range now and his corner game only works if your opponent is terrible...what am I supposed to do with him.

 

[SaltShaker]

I it seems like they just wanted to make him shit. So I have 50/50's but I have to use meter to get the lowest dmging combos in the game, he's shit at close, medium, and far range now and his corner game only works if your opponent is terrible...

 

[DDutchguy]

I don't understand why they didn't buff some things, like if they were trying to change his whole gameplan, but it seems like they just wanted to make him shit. So I have 50/50's but I have to use meter to get the lowest dmging combos in the game, he's shit at close, medium, and far range now and his corner game only works if your opponent is terrible...what am I supposed to do with him.

You still have B3U4 for a meterless 50/50 option, not to mention drone enhanced B12+4 still does decent damage. He should still be able to control space with the bombs, helps the mid and far range fame. Divekick still gives him very good mobility. F2 no longer gives a guaranteed bomb setup, but still has legit good range. Up close and for the neutral you still have B2 and F12.

 

[iAteUrLife]

Soooo, I'm still online playing with CSZ, and I'm winning a good chunk of matches. My whole gameplan has been "By any means necessary your A$$ is getting in the corner" lol. So far so good. Also just trying to abuse the plus frames of 111 into d3 (which jails) to then use the hit advantage of d3 for a mixup or something that can lead to a freeze. But it still sucks that we're spending meter for 26-30% smdh

 

[iAteUrLife]

You still have B3U4 for a meterless 50/50 option, not to mention drone enhanced B12+4 still does decent damage. He should still be able to control space with the bombs, helps the mid and far range fame. Divekick still gives him very good mobility. F2 no longer gives a guaranteed bomb setup, but still has legit good range. Up close and for the neutral you still have B2 and F12.

umm from what I've been seeing f2 is still giving me the setup in the corner

 

[DDutchguy]

Soooo, I'm still online playing with CSZ, and I'm winning a good chunk of matches. My whole gameplan has been "By any means necessary your A$$ is getting in the corner" lol. So far so good. Also just trying to abuse the plus frames of 111 into d3 (which jails) to then use the hit advantage of d3 for a mixup or something that can lead to a freeze. But it still sucks that we're spending meter for 26-30% smdh

Sounds like Cyber Sub has been made more like regular Sub. Bad midscreen damage, but shines in the corner

 

[DDutchguy]

umm from what I've been seeing f2 is still giving me the setup in the corner

If that's true then that's really sweet!

 

[babalook]

You still have B3U4 for a meterless 50/50 option, not to mention drone enhanced B12+4 still does decent damage. He should still be able to control space with the bombs, helps the mid and far range fame. Divekick still gives him very good mobility. F2 no longer gives a guaranteed bomb setup, but still has legit good range. Up close and for the neutral you still have B2 and F12.

So he has meter less 50/50's that are full combo punishable and do shit damage. Almost every character has better 50/50's. Space control with bombs is only mildly effective against good player and only in specific MU's (with the new shit ice ball it's even worse). His dive kick is probably the worst dive kick in the game. F2 is good but it isn't nearly good enough to make up for all his flaws. B2 is pretty risky at close range and f12 is a subpar normal at best. This character is pretty much pure shit now.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

I say just play him and figure out how to break him anyway.

To be fair, the character is painfully one-dimensional. From far, you try to get an Iceball trade, from 3/4th screen you threat with Divekick and Slide, from up close you pray your 50/50 hits, when you get to the corner, that's when you finally get to do decent damage although in a dirty way.

Without a decent mid, there isn't much footsies and/or conditioning to be done. Most is just do or die.

Oh well, I hope I'm wrong

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Not much left to do RIGHT NOW.

I'm not gonna sugarcoat it and say he didn't get hit that bad. It was pretty hard. But looking back at past DLC (Tremor...), I'm not sold on the character losses just yet. And even if it's a loss...as I've said in other posts, it was a "better safe than sorry" kind of thing.

yea that sucks for you with hypespotting so close, back to throwing sai's i guess??
the twins aswell since cyrax got "overhauled" and sektor lost his b1 2+4 setup ketchup found

do agree with thtb that alot of the triborg changes are "better save than sorry" kinda stuff but find it strange they'll do that to where it messes up the old build/playstyle but then the likes of alien get a slap on the wrist and not much has changed

whats this better safe than sorry shit i see you two going on about? What?

So he has meter less 50/50's that are full combo punishable and do shit damage. Almost every character has better 50/50's. Space control with bombs is only mildly effective against good player and only in specific MU's (with the new shit ice ball it's even worse). His dive kick is probably the worst dive kick in the game. F2 is good but it isn't nearly good enough to make up for all his flaws. B2 is pretty risky at close range and f12 is a subpar normal at best. This character is pretty much pure shit now.

The B1 still requires meter on hit or block, so he doesn't have a meterless 50/50, just one option. But yeah, of all the characters that don't have a 50/50, all have a good Mid, which Triborg does not.

 

[babalook]

The B1 still requires meter on hit or block, so he doesn't have a meterless 50/50, just one option.

I know, I was commenting on Dutchguys suggestion to use DE b1 2+4 for a meterless overhead.

 

[The_Tile]

Divekick, f13, f1 stagger b1, b3, grab. Its not science.

Not much harder than dealing with Cage. Only you know if you block correctly vs CSZ, you don't have 10 seconds if chip damage to eat after knockdown.

B3 HTB, B1, 2+4 which is plus on block into another 50/50, 21 into untechable throw, 21 into DK. He also has setups similar to Bo's Crop Duster I've found with EX Bomb.

Apparently the advantage on his f2 has been nerfed so his corner game has been hit too, if he can still get a bomb out and be plus at the end of a combo though his corner game will still be stupid.