General/Other - Commando Commando Variation Discussion Thread

[ando1184]

Are there anybody other than me that thinks the pop up from wood chipper looks rediculous and has little to no function ability towards improving the character as a whole? I mean I would have preferred a chain grab type of thing for using meter, for instance use two bars to do a 3 hit chain grab for around an unbreakable 30-35% or something. He could have duplexes them then do a single boston crab or ankle lock or something, then finish it off with an sleeper, neck breaker, grab their hair and smash their face into the dirt (Johnny style) or something?!? Honestly something like that would better fit him and complete his design, while at the same time giving him a beneficial buff.

 

[MsMiharo]

Are there anybody other than me that thinks the pop up from wood chipper looks rediculous and has little to no function ability towards improving the character as a whole? I mean I would have preferred a chain grab type of thing for using meter, for instance use two bars to do a 3 hit chain grab for around an unbreakable 30-35% or something. He could have duplexes them then do a single boston crab or ankle lock or something, then finish it off with an sleeper, neck breaker, grab their hair and smash their face into the dirt (Johnny style) or something?!? Honestly something like that would better fit him and complete his design, while at the same time giving him a beneficial buff.

I really thing 32 is useful. Both in pressure and as a punisher. We just need to get used to the harder run up punish. 32% for a bar is not bad CONSIDERING it's Kano.

 

[SPY]

I just love the zoom in and out effect with Rib Breaker.
Speaking of Rib Breaker.. wtf is wrong with the inputs for the grabs in this game? why is it that they only come out when the individual directional buttons are pressed? I half ass DB/DF motions all day and the moves always come out, but when I half ass DBF the grab never comes out. Like they're not already harder than DB/DF? Stupid NRS.

After a bit of testing I'm come up with conclusion that any direct down input after initial one will reset inputs for command grab. If numpad was directions - 246, 2146, 2436, 21436+BK will work, but if you do additional 2(down) input, all inputs for c.grab will reset, ie 214236+BK will not work.

 

[SPY]

Are there anybody other than me that thinks the pop up from wood chipper looks rediculous and has little to no function ability towards improving the character as a whole? I mean I would have preferred a chain grab type of thing for using meter, for instance use two bars to do a 3 hit chain grab for around an unbreakable 30-35% or something. He could have duplexes them then do a single boston crab or ankle lock or something, then finish it off with an sleeper, neck breaker, grab their hair and smash their face into the dirt (Johnny style) or something?!? Honestly something like that would better fit him and complete his design, while at the same time giving him a beneficial buff.

I'm agree. I really like @countrypistol idea of extending NJP hitbox downward, so it would be easier to do Ball cancel combos and NJP punishes. It will give Kano good meterless punish option and better 1 bar combos, while still require skill to pull of, unlike new Wood chipper MB, which gave Kano nothing.

 

[MsMiharo]

Y'all really sleeping on Wood Chipper lol

 

[countrypistol]

I'm agree. I really like @countrypistol idea of extending NJP hitbox downward, so it would be easier to do Ball cancel combos and NJP punishes. It will give Kano good meterless punish option and better 1 bar combos, while still require skill to pull of, unlike new Wood chipper MB, which gave Kano nothing.

Yay! Validation! Unfortunately my opinion doesn't hold any weight over at NRS.

Y'all really sleeping on Wood Chipper lol

I agree. I saw what you were doing with it in our session on Tuesday, and that was only day one of the patch. There's definitely scope there for decent punishes and pressure

 

[SPY]

Y'all really sleeping on Wood Chipper lol

Well, string by itself is very good, but MB followup gave very little to Kano's arsenal. 32,1+3,MB,32,112Ball is 29%, while 32,Ball cancel,jip,112Ball is 28% and 32,1+3,MB,32,32,32Power Slam is 34%, while 32,Ball cancel,dash,njp,32,112Power Slam is same 34%. Yes, Wood chipper MB combos are easier to execute, but buffed NJP would benefit Kano much more than that.

 

[MsMiharo]

Well, string by itself is very good, but MB followup gave very little to Kano's arsenal. 32,1+3,MB,32,112Ball is 29%, while 32,Ball cancel,jip,112Ball is 28% and 32,1+3,MB,32,32,32Power Slam is 34%, while 32,Ball cancel,dash,njp,32,112Power Slam is same 34%. Yes, Wood chipper MB combos are easier to execute, but buffed NJP would benefit Kano much more than that.

32 is a great string it just requires MU knowledge to punish with it (run up punish). Jip after ball is inconsistent (stance/breathing dependent). Wood chipper 32 112 rib breaker is 32% and easy AF meaning we have a 30+% combo that's A) actually doable in match B) from a string that's hit confirmable, has no gaps, IS MID and is -1 (unlike 112) C) reverses positions which can be good cause you can always end in PB to put them back towards the corner.

Just because a buffed njp would be nice doesn't mean you should sleep on wood chipper.

 

[Phosferrax]

Wood chipper is a great string. Sometimes you can get s3 into a throw when they're respecting, but it's not something to fall back on.

I've been using s2 into grabs in the neutral and it's great. Shame it's a high.

 

[SPY]

32 is a great string it just requires MU knowledge to punish with it (run up punish). Jip after ball is inconsistent (stance/breathing dependent). Wood chipper 32 112 rib breaker is 32% and easy AF meaning we have a 30+% combo that's A) actually doable in match B) from a string that's hit confirmable, has no gaps, IS MID and is -1 (unlike 112) C) reverses positions which can be good cause you can always end in PB to put them back towards the corner.

Just because a buffed njp would be nice doesn't mean you should sleep on wood chipper.

32,1+3 MB and 32,Ball cancel are both hit confirmable, with tiny damage difference.
Buffed NJP could potentially allow for same 32ball cancel combo to be as practical as Wood chipper MB. But additionally buffed NJP could potentially allow for meterless punishes.
You say "sleep" like there some hidden tech or new combos behind it, I'm sure that all(myself included) would use Wood chipper MB punishes if we need damage to finish round\match and that nothing will change, but knowing that they could buff Kano in such elegant way is making me sad.

 

[MsMiharo]

32,1+3 MB and 32,Ball cancel are both hit confirmable, with tiny damage difference.
Buffed NJP could potentially allow for same 32ball cancel combo to be as practical as Wood chipper MB. But additionally buffed NJP could potentially allow for meterless punishes.
You say "sleep" like there some hidden tech or new combos behind it, I'm sure that all(myself included) would use Wood chipper MB punishes if we need damage to finish round\match and that nothing will change, but knowing that they could buff Kano in such elegant way is making me sad.

Lol I've been trashing this patch ever since it was released but people are pretending like the launcher is nothing. You're speaking of other things that could/should be buffed. That's an entirely different issue.

 

[ando1184]

Lol I've been trashing this patch ever since it was released but people are pretending like the launcher is nothing. You're speaking of other things that could/should be buffed. That's an entirely different issue.

It's a nice addition to commando yes, but it wasn't needed or addressed what he suffers from in this variation. My only real pet peev about this buff is how incredibly stupid it looks lol. Kano grabs them, turns around, then gently falls on them, then they go in a slow motion-esc launch state lol it's silly.

 

[MsMiharo]

It's a nice addition to commando yes, but it wasn't needed or addressed what he suffers from in this variation. My only real pet peev about this buff is how incredibly stupid it looks lol. Kano grabs them, turns around, then gently falls on them, then they go in a slow motion-esc launch state lol it's silly.

Again I've been saying he doesn't need a launcher (I'd take +frames on choke on hit over it. And whiff issues resolved ofc) but that doesn't make it bad. You are all comparing oranges and apples imo

 

[ando1184]

Again I've been saying he doesn't need a launcher (I'd take +frames on choke on hit over it. And whiff issues resolved ofc) but that doesn't make it bad. You are all comparing oranges and apples imo

Oh I never said it was bad, I just would have preferred something else. I'm on your side with the whole "give it a chance" thing bud

 

[Youphemism]

I actually have a 1v1 vs Scorpion session coming up (hopefully tonight) to try and figure this out myself. From what I've already worked out, Commando has the roughest time out of all the variations, due to having the shortest range (b2 and knives make Cyber the best, as you can play footsies at the edge of Scorp's slide range, throw knives, etc, and anti air/b2 punish whiffs, etc. Pre patch, Cutthroat was second due to high damage punishes on blocked teleports, etc, but that's arguably different now).

Uh that's incorrect, Cutthroat was best against Scorpion. Throwing knives is not a good decision against Scorpion.

 

[Phosferrax]

Uh that's incorrect, Cutthroat was best against Scorpion. Throwing knives is not a good decision against Scorpion.

From anywhere apart from fullscreen, it is very difficult for Scorpion to react to knife throws in Cybernetic. Because they recover so fast, if Scorpion is trying to react to knife throws he is essentially doing a twitch reaction to any movement, opening him up to easy baits. Cybernetic does zone him and has better footsies than him as well. I find Scorpion to be weakest when he is forced to come to his opponent, so whilst Cut Throat is probably quite good against him because of its general build (haven't much experience with that MU in Cut Throat) Cybernetic can be effective as well.

Don't care about what's best or right/wrong, just sharing my insight vs @JTB123 of Cybernetic v HF/Ninjitsu.

No idea about Inferno for that one.

 

[Youphemism]

From anywhere apart from fullscreen, it is very difficult for Scorpion to react to knife throws in Cybernetic. Because they recover so fast, if Scorpion is trying to react to knife throws he is essentially doing a twitch reaction to any movement, opening him up to easy baits. Cybernetic does zone him and has better footsies than him as well. I find Scorpion to be weakest when he is forced to come to his opponent, so whilst Cut Throat is probably quite good against him because of its general build (haven't much experience with that MU in Cut Throat) Cybernetic can be effective as well.

Don't care about what's best or right/wrong, just sharing my insight vs @JTB123 of Cybernetic v HF/Ninjitsu.

No idea about Inferno for that one.

Well considering the majority of my experience is against Inferno that's mostly where I'm coming from lol.

 

[ando1184]

Ok after playing more with 321+3 MB, I have to say now that no I don't see it as a better alternative for a run in punish. B13 into ex ball cancel combo does the same damage and has better range and better hitbox. @MsMiharo have you discovered any tech or out of the box strat for it? As of now it just doesn't seem as a more viable option imo.

 

[MsMiharo]

Ok after playing more with 321+3 MB, I have to say now that no I don't see it as a better alternative for a run in punish. B13 into ex ball cancel combo does the same damage and has better range and better hitbox. @MsMiharo have you discovered any tech or out of the box strat for it? As of now it just doesn't seem as a more viable option imo.

What does your b13 punish net? I like the side switch cause you can control where they end up

 

[ando1184]

I do b13, ex ball cancel dash, njp, 32, 112 command throw and that nets 32-33% @MsMiharo

 

[MsMiharo]

I do b13, ex ball cancel dash, njp, 32, 112 command throw and that nets 32-33% @MsMiharo

Ah. Well I can't for the life of me do that consistently. But I like 32 stint as it is. After a blocked b1 you're in range for 32. If you fail to hit confirm you're still plus a billion. If they block you're minus one so you can backdash armor etc. also 32 knife leaves you at plus 7 (?) and in perfect range for command throw with only 3-4 frames to get out. It's not the best but people are acting like it's useless. It's not IMO.

 

[ando1184]

Ah. Well I can't for the life of me do that consistently. But I like 32 stint as it is. After a blocked b1 you're in range for 32. If you fail to hit confirm you're still plus a billion. If they block you're minus one so you can backdash armor etc. also 32 knife leaves you at plus 7 (?) and in perfect range for command throw with only 3-4 frames to get out. It's not the best but people are acting like it's useless. It's not IMO.

I see your point, I guess we'll just have to let it ride out to see how useful we can make it in match.

 

[JTB123]

From anywhere apart from fullscreen, it is very difficult for Scorpion to react to knife throws in Cybernetic. Because they recover so fast, if Scorpion is trying to react to knife throws he is essentially doing a twitch reaction to any movement, opening him up to easy baits. Cybernetic does zone him and has better footsies than him as well. I find Scorpion to be weakest when he is forced to come to his opponent, so whilst Cut Throat is probably quite good against him because of its general build (haven't much experience with that MU in Cut Throat) Cybernetic can be effective as well.

Don't care about what's best or right/wrong, just sharing my insight vs @JTB123 of Cybernetic v HF/Ninjitsu.

No idea about Inferno for that one.

I don't think any variation of Kano does particularly bad against Scorpion in any variation. I could see it being dead even in the long run, dealing with his knives is much easier offline, it's easy to let constant on line sets influence a match up but I remember the last time we played at HoG it was much easier to teleport knives when I was on point.

Footsie wise can sometimes boil down to a war of D4's but I'd give the edge to Kano here as he has better things to follow it up with. I would say Cut Throat gives Scorpion the most trouble though, and I prefer Hellfire vs any Kano variation.

I would never pick Inferno for Kano, he doesn't have to give a shit about minions, can punish low minion anywhere on screen and in cut throat you're going to be eating huge damage. A blocked mid or OH minion means he's in your grill and it's party time. Definitely a Ninjutusu or HF in my opinion.

 

[Phosferrax]

Cybernetic definitely has better footsies than HF and probably Ninjitsu as well due to b21, f4 and his d2 being very effective against j3. But he does lose the offensive options the other 2 give him. If he punishes low minion with Kano ball in cybernetic you really don't have to be sweating which is why i personally think you should consider inferno for that variation.

 

[MsMiharo]

I don't think any variation of Kano does particularly bad against Scorpion in any variation. I could see it being dead even in the long run, dealing with his knives is much easier offline, it's easy to let constant on line sets influence a match up but I remember the last time we played at HoG it was much easier to teleport knives when I was on point.

Footsie wise can sometimes boil down to a war of D4's but I'd give the edge to Kano here as he has better things to follow it up with. I would say Cut Throat gives Scorpion the most trouble though, and I prefer Hellfire vs any Kano variation.

I would never pick Inferno for Kano, he doesn't have to give a shit about minions, can punish low minion anywhere on screen and in cut throat you're going to be eating huge damage. A blocked mid or OH minion means he's in your grill and it's party time. Definitely a Ninjutusu or HF in my opinion.

Commando vs scorpion is horrible. I can see cutthroat or cyber handling it better since they can oki/zone but haven't tried it. Still learning the match up but the whiff issues makes the match up complicated cause you can only rely on your mids. Basically it comes down to forcing teleports and punishing them which commando doesn't do as hard as the other two.