Match-up Discussion Batman Match-Up Discussion

[The_PayBack]

I 2nd this completely. When you do get in, stay in and don't let him breathe.

Lol easier said then done, if I jump for a cross up he J1's me.
If I go for 123he knows to block low,and if i go for 113 he d1 to interrupt me .-.

 

[LEGEND]

Ok, how in the hell does Batman deal with Nightwing?

Anyone with a detailed breakdown of this MU at a high level? it seems like the ground shock meta game is heavily in NW's favor and when you do get in its not hard at all for NW to reverse the pressure and leave you in a much worse situation

 

[RapZiLLa54]

Lol easier said then done, if I jump for a cross up he J1's me.
If I go for 123he knows to block low,and if i go for 113 he d1 to interrupt me .-.

You can get the same combo from j1 as j2 it just does a little less damage. j1 123 b23.

Also if you're getting 123 on him just do 12. You're + and get a free b23 or you can go for a f3 if you think hes going to stay ducking.

Im with you that its much easier said than done, I think its by far his worst match up and an uphill battle.

 

[RapZiLLa54]

Ok, how in the hell does Batman deal with Nightwing?

Anyone with a detailed breakdown of this MU at a high level? it seems like the ground shock meta game is heavily in NW's favor and when you do get in its not hard at all for NW to reverse the pressure and leave you in a much worse situation

Bat rotation is greatly needed in this matchup. Also nightwing in staff stance can't jump so b23 batarang as a block string practically locks him down and keeps the zoning/distance game in your favor. You can mb batarang and get another batarang on the screen and then mix in releasing bats. His j2 in staff stance is negative enough on block you can cape parry any followup except sweep and his 1f1 (i believe thats the low) into ex ground spark isn't a true link, you can mb b3 out of it or even d1 him.

Cape parry beats his spinning staff wake ups and mix him up with grabs b11 after a blocked staff or flying grayson.

As for his normal stance I got nothing lol, I don't see much of it used.

 

[Reptile Orion]

RapZiLLa54

I would like to hear your thoughts on how you handle the Batman vs. Killer Frost/Black Adam matchup. I played 22 matches last night against a pretty good Killer Frost/Black Adam player. We split the matches evenly although I felt like I left some wins on the table.

Against Killer Frost I struggled once I was stuck in a zoning position. I used Batarangs and the Bats trait to close the gap but was caught at times in Frost's Ground Ice spike and Ice projectiles as I slowly advanced (I know I'm butchering what the special move is really called). But once I managed to get in close I unleashed the Bats rush down and continued the pressure by using 12 and b22 then releasing the bats only to then complete a full combo. I didn't have too much of a problem with Frost's slide. I did use interactables too my advantage when trying to get in. The trash can in the Gotham City alleyway was my best friend . Outside of that I used Frost's lack of anti air tools to my advantage by getting a number of cross up opportunities.

Against Black Adam my opponent was mainly backdashing and zoning. I found it easier to close the gap with the Bats trait. Adam's frame traps were a pain but once I was in close I found it easier to catch Adam with the Front Grapple than Killer Frost. It is still tough to zone against Adam at times.

What else can I do when faced with this matchup?

 

[daddydab32ho]

From my matchup experience I had last night at VSM I can give a few pointers that I've noticed.

- Aquaman IMO might be in Batmans favor slightly. You can escape most of his pressure by back dashing and if you have bats release and punish because he has a lot of recovery on most whiffed projectiles. You can full combo him from full screen if you have bats out and release them on reaction to his Trident followed up by a ex grapple. His "from the deep" is very similar to freddys ground spike so once you block one you can do a few things, send out a batarang/ get your trait out/ dash forward to close distance/ check him with grapple. This is a very turtle based matchup, if you rush him down you will lose lol.

-Grundy is wacky lol. Avoid jumping at him because his AA uppercut is one of the better in the game and leads to some very good damage. f23 messes with his grab since you become airbone so he takes the damage and you don't get grabbed, so if you see it coming just check him with it, or you can NJ2 for full combo. His ex zombie grab can pretty much guarentee a full combo from just about full screen so be sure to be blocking low A LOT. Very similar to Aquamans from the deep, on block you have the same options available to you.

- Green Lantern is a character you never want to let breathe pretty much. Unless you have Bats he can check you with his lift from almost anywhere but point blank but typically I find when people see you have bats they just run away and go into crazy zoning mode. If you find the pattern and catch him going for an Air missle be sure to punish him with b2 EX sky hook before he hits the ground, he instantly recovers so you can't wait for him to touch the ground and b2 ex sky hook leads to 35%. My typical combo enders on GL are f23 so I'm right on top of him on wake up.

- Deathstroke can't get away with all his crazy shit vs us. While yes its still tough to get in you just have to be patient. Ducking and releasing bats works wonders vs instant air shots as he has to block or hes getting full comboed into ex grapple, so he can't go all gun happy. When you block a low you can dash in and block low again to cover space. Try to avoid jumping because that shit is just going to send you back full screen to restart the process. If you see him go for his trait, release bats instantly and dash in. Thats all I got for now.

you cant punish aquaman on hit confirmed bat, aquamans trait saves him from being combo"d... also batmans bats are not an option for free pressure (only if you jump for cross-over after bats) because if you dash cross-over jump aquamans d2 stuffs the jump and sometimes stuff just a standing normal combo starter if you choose not to cross over after bat bots are homing in... aquaman takes away batmans bats because of aquamans trait..also aquaman outzones batman if you block a ground trident you cannot check him with grapple or batarang because aquaman will get another free ground trident, batman can only like you said " get your trait out/ dash forward to close distance" or you can double jump forward to avoid another ground trident....im sorry but if you play a high level aquaman its at best 6-4 aquaman at worst 7-3

 

[LEGEND]

Bat rotation is greatly needed in this matchup. Also nightwing in staff stance can't jump so b23 batarang as a block string practically locks him down and keeps the zoning/distance game in your favor. You can mb batarang and get another batarang on the screen and then mix in releasing bats. His j2 in staff stance is negative enough on block you can cape parry any followup except sweep and his 1f1 (i believe thats the low) into ex ground spark isn't a true link, you can mb b3 out of it or even d1 him.

Cape parry beats his spinning staff wake ups and mix him up with grabs b11 after a blocked staff or flying grayson.

As for his normal stance I got nothing lol, I don't see much of it used.

i don't see how you ever get bats out though, you can't active them in the gaps between Ground shocks or throw batarangs. Even if you jump one you still have to respect ground shock if you want to get bats out, only options i know at this point are another jump/glide, dash in or slide, all of which get blown up hard by just a little bit of patience on NW's part. i know you can make the Ground shock wiff if you dash at the right time, but thats only possible at neutral and its more of a read, and if you try getting bats out right after the GS witffs and NW MBs it you're going to eat at least 24% and be put full screen again

i mean, i know its not impossible to get in, it just takes some patience and a good read. But your are almost certainly going to eat a significant amount of damage throughout the MU just trying to get in, and when you are in you are one bad read away from having to deal with Nightwing' s pressure and/or full screen lockdown

im just not seeing how this is remotely even

thanks for the input though, hopefully im just missing something

 

[RapZiLLa54]

i don't see how you ever get bats out though, you can't active them in the gaps between Ground shocks or throw batarangs. Even if you jump one you still have to respect ground shock if you want to get bats out, only options i know at this point are another jump/glide, dash in or slide, all of which get blown up hard by just a little bit of patience on NW's part. i know you can make the Ground shock wiff if you dash at the right time, but thats only possible at neutral and its more of a read, and if you try getting bats out right after the GS witffs and NW MBs it you're going to eat at least 24% and be put full screen again

i mean, i know its not impossible to get in, it just takes some patience and a good read. But your are almost certainly going to eat a significant amount of damage throughout the MU just trying to get in, and when you are in you are one bad read away from having to deal with Nightwing' s pressure and/or full screen lockdown

im just not seeing how this is remotely even

thanks for the input though, hopefully im just missing something

Oh I don't believe its even at all. I think its 6-4 in NWs favor.

 

[RapZiLLa54]

RapZiLLa54

I'd love to give you some on KF but I honestly have nothing. I have practically zero KF experience so I can't help there.

BA is an uphill battle man I'm still trying to figure the matchup out myself. Its a huge cat and mouse game but you will lose full screen and depending on the level with interactables he just flat out wins. Only success I've had on BA is when I'm in I stay in with trait and bait out Lighting cage.

 

[RapZiLLa54]

you cant punish aquaman on hit confirmed bat, aquamans trait saves him from being combo"d... also batmans bats are not an option for free pressure (only if you jump for cross-over after bats) because if you dash cross-over jump aquamans d2 stuffs the jump and sometimes stuff just a standing normal combo starter if you choose not to cross over after bat bots are homing in... aquaman takes away batmans bats because of aquamans trait..also aquaman outzones batman if you block a ground trident you cannot check him with grapple or batarang because aquaman will get another free ground trident, batman can only like you said " get your trait out/ dash forward to close distance" or you can double jump forward to avoid another ground trident....im sorry but if you play a high level aquaman its at best 6-4 aquaman at worst 7-3

You can punish aquamans with hit confirmed bat when he doesn't have trait, you have to pay attention to match. If I know he has trait I just won't MB and take the damage and new positioning.

You only get a free ground trident on block from full screen but not 3/4s which I make up in one dash.

Jump glide beats d2 if you get d2 happy, also so does cape parry.

This match is very manageable (Reo vs Tom Brady) and while I agree is 6-4 in Aquamans favor only because of trait by no means will it ever be a 7-3.

 

[daddydab32ho]

You can punish aquamans with hit confirmed bat when he doesn't have trait, you have to pay attention to match. If I know he has trait I just won't MB and take the damage and new positioning.

You only get a free ground trident on block from full screen but not 3/4s which I make up in one dash.

Jump glide beats d2 if you get d2 happy, also so does cape parry.

This match is very manageable (Reo vs Tom Brady) and while I agree is 6-4 in Aquamans favor only because of trait by no means will it ever be a 7-3.

ok but realistically how many times during that match (especially in the heat of battle)are you going to have as many as two or three bats and aquamans trait will be down so you can activate them to get in?and aquaman can trade with ground trident for bats if you activate them for full screen even 3/4s because the trident hits you u were ever u are and after you dash your slightly vulnerable
and u cant dash jump because trident will catch you and aquaman will win the trade with ground trident vs bat bots also yah maybe from 3/4's of the screen but you said FULL SCREEN in your initial post... and dude, seriously, you cant base the mu off of reo's and tom brady's gameplay...

 

[RapZiLLa54]

ok but realistically how many times during that match (especially in the heat of battle)are you going to have as many as two or three bats and aquamans trait will be down so you can activate them to get in?and aquaman can trade with ground trident for bats if you activate them for full screen even 3/4s because the trident hits you u were ever u are and after you dash your slightly vulnerable
and u cant dash jump because trident will catch you and aquaman will win the trade with ground trident vs bat bots also yah maybe from 3/4's of the screen but you said FULL SCREEN in your initial post... and dude, seriously, you cant base the mu off of reo's and tom brady's gameplay...

Also my INITIAL post was the day the game first dropped and I was giving some input on the matchups I faced that night.

So in your opinion there is never a point in any match that batman will have bats and aquaman won't have trait? And why can't I base a mu off reo vs brady? You were the one that brought up the match at its "highest level". Not sure it gets higher than that.

 

[daddydab32ho]

Also my INITIAL post was the day the game first dropped and I was giving some input on the matchups I faced that night.

So in your opinion there is never a point in any match that batman will have bats and aquaman won't have trait? And why can't I base a mu off reo vs brady? You were the one that brought up the match at its "highest level". Not sure it gets higher than that.

Flawedzilla

 

[RapZiLLa54]

Flawedzilla

We really bringing in more people to agree that its a 6-4 matchup in aquamans favor? Really lol

 

[daddydab32ho]

We really bringing in more people to agree that its a 6-4 matchup in aquamans favor? Really lol

hey im just trying to make you realize the truth of this match up.... and hey i looked at batman discussion thread and i saw the front page and u said batman slight favor... im not going to read ten+ pages to find out what YOU still dont know about the match up.... and im not saying there WONT be a point where trait will be down and bat will have trait... but as much time as your bats recharge aquaman has another trait at the same time as your first bat recharges, its match do the math.... yes reo vs tb is high level but its a tournament match.... for example cdjr use to beat the shit out of reo with jax, so people thought jax was the kabal killer right? and when the mu was grinded more it ultimately became a 7-3 6-4 match up.. im just saying grind more... dont go off what you see or hear, go off what you do and learn.....

 

[RapZiLLa54]

hey im just trying to make you realize the truth of this match up.... and hey i looked at batman discussion thread and i saw the front page and u said batman slight favor... im not going to read ten+ pages to find out what YOU still dont know about the match up.... and im not saying there WONT be a point where trait will be down and bat will have trait... but as much time as your bats recharge aquaman has another trait at the same time as your first bat recharges, its match do the math.... yes reo vs tb is high level but its a tournament match.... for example cdjr use to beat the shit out of reo with jax, so people thought jax was the kabal killer right? and when the mu was grinded more it ultimately became a 7-3 6-4 match up.. im just saying grind more... dont go off what you see or hear, go off what you do and learn.....

smh

 

[daddydab32ho]

smh

can you explain why you are SHAKING YOUR HEAD? or are you too lazy to message back and or cant come up with a good enough argument to my previous post? i already know now that you're the type of person to go off of what he see's or hear's not of what not of what he learns about it...

 

[RapZiLLa54]

can you explain why you are SHAKING YOUR HEAD? or are you too lazy to message back and or cant come up with a good enough argument to my previous post? i already know now that you're the type of person to go off of what he see's or hear's not of what not of what he learns about it...

Oh for the love of god... I'm shaking my head because apparently you want to QUOTE a post from the day the game dropped before ANY PATCHES and then take that quote and think I haven't learned more about that matchup because YOU refuse to "read" throughout the thread. Even though its apparent you can't read in our current discussion since I've agreed with you now 3 times that its 6-4 in Aquamans favor for THE REASONS you're trying to help me "learn".

So yes I'm shaking my head because your reading comprehension or lack thereof is well lacking as is your judgement of character.

 

[daddydab32ho]

Oh for the love of god... I'm shaking my head because apparently you want to QUOTE a post from the day the game dropped before ANY PATCHES and then take that quote and think I haven't learned more about that matchup because YOU refuse to "read" throughout the thread. Even though its apparent you can't read in our current discussion since I've agreed with you now 3 times that its 6-4 in Aquamans favor for THE REASONS you're trying to help me "learn".

So yes I'm shaking my head because your reading comprehension or lack thereof is well lacking as is your judgement of character.

lol i agreed with you that i posted wrongly from your day 1 thread my bad AGAIN... im just tryna seek knowledge and give some as well brotha

 

[The_PayBack]

You can get the same combo from j1 as j2 it just does a little less damage. j1 123 b23.

Also if you're getting 123 on him just do 12. You're + and get a free b23 or you can go for a f3 if you think hes going to stay ducking.

Im with you that its much easier said than done, I think its by far his worst match up and an uphill battle.

Yeah Ive mixed up my game a lot but its still not enough :|

Im not the type to ask for nerfs or buffs but i think BA gets too much free damage for being such a safe character.

 

[Troispoint]

I'm really struggling against Nightwing for some reason. I have a hard time answering his pressure.

 

[Vigilante]

Yeah Ive mixed up my game a lot but its still not enough :|

Im not the type to ask for nerfs or buffs but i think BA gets too much free damage for being such a safe character.

His damage is insane, and the pushback and meter gain of that MB lightning... come on...
I play regularly against a very good and very lame Broken Adam player, and the advice I can give you is this:
- Your main objective should be getting him to the corner. I know it sounds too obvious, but you should NEVER forget it. That`s one of the reasons Batman should not cross him up as much as in the other matchups. Be patient, his lameness will eventually get him there.
- Once you get him in the corner, try to end all your combos with b112 and then backdash, or b23, and then WAIT. If you dash in and pressure again, you will likely lose the corner, and you do not want to be chasing that dude to the other side of the stage again, just bait him. Up batarang is very useful in that situation, and Trait bats help Batman to outrange him at jump distance (If he does any projectile, jump in and punish).
You really have to outsmart your opponent in this matchup. Try to read him as much as possible! Good Luck!

 

[The_PayBack]

His damage is insane, and the pushback and meter gain of that MB lightning... come on...
I play regularly against a very good and very lame Broken Adam player, and the advice I can give you is this:
- Your main objective should be getting him to the corner. I know it sounds too obvious, but you should NEVER forget it. That`s one of the reasons Batman should not cross him up as much as in the other matchups. Be patient, his lameness will eventually get him there.
- Once you get him in the corner, try to end all your combos with b112 and then backdash, or b23, and then WAIT. If you dash in and pressure again, you will likely lose the corner, and you do not want to be chasing that dude to the other side of the stage again, just bait him. Up batarang is very useful in that situation, and Trait bats help Batman to outrange him at jump distance (If he does any projectile, jump in and punish).
You really have to outsmart your opponent in this matchup. Try to read him as much as possible! Good Luck!

Thanks, before I read this post I was thinking of putting insane corner presure more regularly then I do.

Maybe anyone here can point out some things I've done wrong here in my gameplay? xD

 

[Adam Todd]

I'm starting to realize Doomsday can be a problem, anyone have good experience against one? I fight random ones from time to time online and they basically face roll the controller to victory against me. lol I suck at blocking cross ups, timing dashes, and back 3 armor uping against this guy. I know there's threads on how to deal with this guy, but as Batman mains do you guys have any tips to help? There was nothing in the spoiler tag in the OP when I checked.

 

[TH3DISTURBED1]

Thanks, before I read this post I was thinking of putting insane corner presure more regularly then I do.

Maybe anyone here can point out some things I've done wrong here in my gameplay? xD

I'm one that does this too, but you're leaving a ton of damage on the table by dropping combos. Try using more mixups and frame traps once you're in to keep pressure on him.

The strings 12 and b11 leave you at advantage. Try keeping the bats up for longer. It seems you cb then rb immediately. Instead of crossing him up, push him to the corner, too.