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Bank of Perfect Legend: INJ ranking system

E

Eldriken

Guest
People are still posting in here?

LET IT DIE, FOLKS. Let's move on to another thread in which we can all yell and scream at one another like we're a dysfunctional family.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
So @Jaxel, we actually did run an ELO based ranking system last year and the results were this:

1) No one cares enough about their rating to actually stop going to tournaments because of it. We had absolutely zero problems with that, and I can't see someone being willing to sabotage their own winnings and enjoyment of the game because of it. And even they did, the beauty of a couple year's worth of IGAU or MK events is that people go to enough tournaments for the ratings to mean something, but not enough that they can just rest on their laurels.

If you simply stop going to events, someone will pass you up as the year goes on. It worked beautifully as it was intended to work. Also it's not that hard to code in an expiration or say that your ranking only stays visible if you attend an event once every X number of months.

And if anything, the fact that you can't "fake" your way up the rankings by beating less experienced/skilled opponents encourages people to come out and go after the other top players. But realistically, I don't know anyone who made travel plans based on the ranking system.

2) As far as punishing people for having a bad day -- to me, that's not a punish; it just reflects your actual results. If it's tweaked properly, you aren't swinging that drastically in points from one event to another. But what it does is reward consistency and reflect which players are actually playing well overall.

Would you tell a football team who missed the wildcard playoff spot by losing their last couple games that they were 'punished'? Nope -- if another team performed more consistently throughout the season, then they earned it. Each win and loss is accounted for.

It prevents people from resting on their laurels -- if they want to rank well, they have to play well. And it helps deal with the problem of people with easy access to tourneys simply attending a lot of events to "erase" their bad performances. You're held accountable for your performance at every ranked event.

3) The fact that players are assigned points based on their wins naturally adjusts the rewards according both the size of the tournament and the density of good/experienced players. If you go to something like EVO and win, the fact that you had to beat more and better players to get there vs. winning a smaller event means you end up with more points at the end. But it does this objectively, based on facts only -- without assigning an arbitrary point value to the entire event. And if tweaked/setup correctly, you are still rewarded most for getting farther in the tournament. Consistent players that win tournaments do end up farther than people that aren't, because it requires wins (and only allows 1 loss max) to get there. But winning a tournament and then going out in pools at your next couple, doesn't allow you to unfairly stick at the top by only counting your best nights.

This is important for Injustice-community-style events because unlike the tennis tour, we don't have a Masters or Grand Slam series of mandatory big events, and not everyone can make as many of them. So the density/quality of each major is determined by who actually decides to show up. (And currently in this community, whether or not the event is even a considered a major depends on who decides to show up). The same 'major' can be absolutely stacked one year, and sparsely attended by top players the next. Thus it produces more accurate rankings to take into account what kind of players people actually had to beat to place.

Overall I had a blast running things, and in the end the rankings we constructed did a great job of identifying the players who were playing the best. Both ATP and ELO have their tradeoffs. I'm not married to either type of system, but my main concern is that whatever is used actually fit the situation at hand. So you have to choose well, put aside biases and tweak the system carefully in order to give the best results for the actual community you're using it on -- not for a community of professional athletes with totally different rules and travel constraints.

But in any case -- we've probably beaten this discussion to death :D
 
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juicepouch

blink-182 enthusiast
Well seriously...seeding in the FGC is dumb.

Just because you won one tournament does not mean you should have an easier time winning another.

It works for sports, but within the FGC I think it's silly, and is counter productive to growth.
Agreed

I feel like as long as all the TO's don't fuck around too much and use common sense when they place players in pools then we wouldn't need to have a discussion like this. I mean, it doesn't make sense to have DJT and KDZ in the same pool, or guys from the same region/team. Just use common sense when it comes to placing players in pools so there isn't one or two super stacked ones or ones that have all of the guys from one place on it. I don't understand the hullabaloo here, really.
 

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
Agreed

I feel like as long as all the TO's don't fuck around too much and use common sense when they place players in pools then we wouldn't need to have a discussion like this. I mean, it doesn't make sense to have DJT and KDZ in the same pool, or guys from the same region/team. Just use common sense when it comes to placing players in pools so there isn't one or two super stacked ones or ones that have all of the guys from one place on it. I don't understand the hullabaloo here, really.

Pretty much. I just don't agree with having top seeds get byes/fed newer members of the community. That's where you start to stunt it.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
are all players paid to go to every tournament?

If you can answer YES to the above question... seeding would matter.

Do all players go to all tournaments?

If Yes to the above ... Seeding would matter.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
Well seriously...seeding in the FGC is dumb.

Just because you won one tournament does not mean you should have an easier time winning another.

It works for sports, but within the FGC I think it's silly, and is counter productive to growth.
While I kan see your point and in a way I agree. I think seeding is good for the purpose of not allowing people to get free pools and fraud their way to top 8 or top 16...

Once pools are set though, players (and people here) shouldn't komplain that a pool is too stacked. That's just how things go sometimes. It's a tournament.
 

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
While I kan see your point and in a way I agree. I think seeding is good for the purpose of not allowing people to get free pools and fraud their way to top 8 or top 16...

Once pools are set though, players (and people here) shouldn't komplain that a pool is too stacked. That's just how things go sometimes. It's a tournament.
Randomness is fair tho.

Know what's not fair?

Getting a pool where you are matched up with someone who may not be seeded, like lets say MIT who is a phenominal player. Then, you have to play Pig Of The Hut who just got a bye into the second round because he had a seed.

If you do manage to beat MIT you face Pig, if you lose to MIT you will have to eventually face him again in losers.

Seeds are only worthwhile if EVERYONE gets paid an amount in tournament. If they don't, random it up.
 
Randomness is fair tho.

Know what's not fair?

Getting a pool where you are matched up with someone who may not be seeded, like lets say MIT who is a phenominal player. Then, you have to play Pig Of The Hut who just got a bye into the second round because he had a seed.

If you do manage to beat MIT you face Pig, if you lose to MIT you will have to eventually face him again in losers.

Seeds are only worthwhile if EVERYONE gets paid an amount in tournament. If they don't, random it up.
overall, seeding can be good, but it is a competition, you got to play who is in front of you at the end of the day, whether it is multiple top players, or just a few. I mean it is easier seeding with something like professional sports, but for fighting game tournaments, there are too many variables.
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
@CrimsonShadow I honestly think you underestimate how much people care about their rankings. Soooooo many people say they don't care and soooo many of those same people will admit they actually do in private. Maybe not with your rankings because they didn't have a chance to get big enough, but like, if you counted the next tournament after WB I was washed up and knew id get bodied and why should I enter something I know ill do bad in and drop my rank? Lol

We have people that will take multiple hours each day to exploit a kung Lao glitch on xbl ranked matches so they can stay on top. People already skip tournaments to avoid certain players so they don't lose their statuses, and that's through all the Fgc.