Match-up Discussion B W1zZ' LBSH Raiden Matchup Chart

[B W1zZ]

I'm going to lay down what I think Raiden's matchups are post Dallas in a LBSH fashion. Matches with ??? mean that I don't have adequate enough HIGH LEVEL experience in these matchups to determine a proper number.

I also will be using decimals as I see fit, as there seems to be some confusion when it comes to certain matchups. Decimals in my chart mean the matchup can sway from slightly advantageous to even depending on the player and matchup experience..

Scorpion - 5.5-4.5
Sub-Zero - 5.5-4.5
Reptile - 5-5
Ermac - 6-4
Noob - 7-3
Smoke - 5-5
Rain - 5-5
Mileena - 5.5-4.5 (I've only seen 1 mileena player in my life interrupt Raiden's strings with D4, and he happens to be a popular freddy player)
Kitana - 5-5
Jade - 6-4
Skarlet - ??? (i believe this is a 5-5 but i havent played many skarlets, her block traps can be a problem)
Sektor - 5-5
Cyrax - 4.5 - 5.5 (very slight advantage cyrax due to resets, not enough to be considered 4-6 imo)
Cyber Sub-Zero - 5-5
Kenshi - 5-5
Freddy - 5.5-4.5 (From what I've experienced Raiden seems to have the upper hand since he bypasses freddy's zoning, however NMS can auto correct and punish teleport, although superman can punish NMS)
Sindel - 5.5-4.5
Sonya - 3-7 (possibly 4-6 but I hate this matchup)
Jax - 5-5
Cage - 4.5-5.5 (I only list this as slight advantage cage due to the fact that the Raiden player in question has to know the matchup moreso than Cage does).
Stryker - 5-5
Liu Kang - 5-5
Kung Lao - 4.5-5.5
Kano - 6-4
Nightwolf - 6-4
Kabal - 4-6
Baraka - 5.5-4.5
Shang Tsung - 5-5
Quan Chi - 5-5 (only because of runetrap)
Sheeva - 6-4

Keep in mind these are my opinions based on my experiences and my knowledge as a Raiden main. Matchup numbers never seem to be set in stone.

 

[NKZero]

Bearing in mind I don't have nearly as much Raiden MU experience as you do I think I'll chime in with my chart (no decimals):

vs Baraka: 6-4
vs Cyber Sub Zero: 5-5
vs Cyrax: 5-5
vs Ermac: 6-4
vs Freddy: 6-4
vs Jade: 6-4
vs Jax: 5-5
vs Johnny Cage: 5-5
vs Kabal: 4-6
vs Kano: 6-4
vs Kenshi: 5-5
vs Kitana: 5-5
vs Kung Lao: 5-5
vs Liu Kang: 5-5
vs Mileena: 5-5
vs Nightwolf: 6-4
vs Noob Saibot: 7-3
vs Quan Chi: 6-4
vs Rain: 5-5
vs Reptile: 5-5
vs Scorpion: 7-3
vs Sektor: 5-5
vs Shang Tsung: 5-5
vs Sheeva: 7-3
vs Sindel: 6-4
vs Skarlet: 4-6
vs Smoke: 5-5
vs Sonya: 4-6
vs Stryker: 5-5
vs Sub Zero: 6-4

TOTAL: 162

 

[Grumptronix]

Wizz, did you end up playing Madzin's Noob?

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Large hit boxes make skarlets life easy. I'd say 6-4 skarlets favor. Her armor goes through his strings and iad auto corrects on tele make getting in hard for him. If skarlet uses eh dagger after reset he blocks f212 and if execution is on, he can't teleport between strings because there are no holes.

 

[Dark_Rob]

These matchup numbers seem very high for Raiden. I know nothing about Raiden but if his scores were this good hed be a top 3 character, but the majority of people dont even consider him top 10. So something doesnt seem to add up right.

 

[Zoidberg747]

These matchup numbers seem very high for Raiden. I know nothing about Raiden but if his scores were this good hed be a top 3 character, but the majority of people dont even consider him top 10. So something doesnt seem to add up right.

Most of the matchups are 5.5-4.5 though, which means he should be lower. He doesnt really own anybody except noob, while other top tiers like Kenshi and Kabal and Sonya own a lot of characters.

 

[Dark_Rob]

Most of the matchups are 5.5-4.5 though, which means he should be lower. He doesnt really own anybody except noob, while other top tiers like Kenshi and Kabal and Sonya own a lot of characters.

The decimal points may be throwing me off. But it only has Raiden losing 2 matchups definitively (Sonya 3-7 and Kabal 4-6) That seems really good to me coming from using a character that loses like 17 matchups lol

 

[Zoidberg747]

The decimal points may be throwing me off. But it only has Raiden losing 2 matchups definitively (Sonya 3-7 and Kabal 4-6) That seems really good to me coming from using a character that loses like 17 matchups lol

I think some of those 4.5-5.5 could be changed to 4-6. That gives him like 4 bad matchups, which while still good is not top 5 just because he also has so many even ones according to the chart.

I have a character that has 2 winning matchups, btw. Hold dat lol

 

[Dark_Rob]

I have a character that has 2 winning matchups, btw. Hold dat lol

Youve got me beat. you must be a baraka player.

 

[B W1zZ]

Wizz, did you end up playing Madzin's Noob?

In a few tag matches but not in a proper set. I still feel this matchup is highly advantageous for Raiden, although it's possibly only a 6-4.

These matchup numbers seem very high for Raiden. I know nothing about Raiden but if his scores were this good hed be a top 3 character, but the majority of people dont even consider him top 10. So something doesnt seem to add up right.

In my opinion the majority of people don't really understand the character or how he can compete in certain matchups. Nobody really has much high level Raiden experience since not many people play the character to his maximum potential so naturally he gets downplayed more than he should, these numbers are how I feel about the matchups, taking everything Raiden can do into consideration.

If anything Lao and Cage could be 4-6 along with Cyrax, but Raiden has ways of evening out the matches which is why I used decimals.

I think Raiden is top 10, probably around the 9th spot or so, but he just doesn't drastically win a lot of matchups like the top 3 characters even though he can compete with most of the top 10.

 

[MortySeinfeld]

In a few tag matches but not in a proper set. I still feel this matchup is highly advantageous for Raiden, although it's possibly only a 6-4.



In my opinion the majority of people don't really understand the character or how he can compete in certain matchups. Nobody really has much high level Raiden experience since not many people play the character to his maximum potential so naturally he gets downplayed more than he should, these numbers are how I feel about the matchups, taking everything Raiden can do into consideration.

If anything Lao and Cage could be 4-6 along with Cyrax, but Raiden has ways of evening out the matches which is why I used decimals.

I think Raiden is top 10, probably around the 9th spot or so, but he just doesn't drastically win a lot of matchups like the top 3 characters even though he can compete with most of the top 10.

Why aren't you playing MK online with me right now.

 

[B W1zZ]

Why aren't you playing MK online with me right now.

Morty playing MK online???

 

[Qwark28]

how the fuck is it only 6 4 vs sub when he can ex superman almost all his strings, teleport out of his d4 and punish any followups and is near impossible to catch when having the lead?

 

[coolwhip]

I like this match-up chart a lot and I think it sums up what is good about Raiden as a character and what makes him so viable (despite being underused): He doesn't blow many characters up, but he doesn't have any match-up where he gets totally blown up. That is a luxury many of the better characters don't have (even Kenshi has a terrible match-up).

 

[NKZero]

how the fuck is it only 6 4 vs sub when he can ex superman almost all his strings, teleport out of his d4 and punish any followups and is near impossible to catch when having the lead?

Sub can also lame him out quite well when he has the life lead. When Raiden actually is down on life he often struggles in his own right to make the comeback, especially against a master of turtling such as Sub Zero. If Sub Zero positions himself in front of the ice clone it can be awfully difficult for Raiden to navigate around this barrier with a teleport or if Sub just sits behind it he can safely wait for a teleport and then punish.

But all points you made are legit and that's why Raiden beats him. I just can't imagine it being worse than 6-4. In fact I am more comfortable using Sub Zero against Raiden than I am with Sektor (who goes even with Raiden).

 

[THTB]

Why aren't you playing MK online with me right now.

This kinda fuckery isn't allowed on these forums. Mortimus Seinfeldus never, ever touches online.

 

[AYSAMO]

This kinda fuckery isn't allowed on these forums. Mortimus Seinfeldus never, ever touches online.

We're too lazy to drive down the street to play MK so we're playin some wack online. The only time I ever get rounds on Morty..

 

[Dark_Rob]

how the fuck is it only 6 4 vs sub when he can ex superman almost all his strings, teleport out of his d4 and punish any followups and is near impossible to catch when having the lead?

I think it feels worse for Sub then it really is. I kind of agree with bw1zz on this one. The thing is you need alot of experience vs Raiden as Subzero because you cant do the normal Sub stuff to him. Even if you hit a D4 on a standing Raiden he can still teleport away. He can teleport out of 2,1,2 and so forth. So it feels really bad for Sub at first. You really cant rush Raiden down at all. Raiden lives for that shit. You have to turtle and counter. Raiden also likes to turtle and counter so this is a pretty lame match in general. Raiden does have the advantage though for sure. But theres worse matches out there for Subzero.

 

[B W1zZ]

I think it feels worse for Sub then it really is. I kind of agree with bw1zz on this one. The thing is you need alot of experience vs Raiden as Subzero because you cant do the normal Sub stuff to him. Even if you hit a D4 on a standing Raiden he can still teleport away. He can teleport out of 2,1,2 and so forth. So it feels really bad for Sub at first. You really cant rush Raiden down at all. Raiden lives for that shit. You have to turtle and counter. Raiden also likes to turtle and counter so this is a pretty lame match in general. Raiden does have the advantage though for sure. But theres worse matches out there for Subzero.

Another factor is that Raiden can instant air superman over ice clone, but generally sub zero has good teleport punishers in 212, 22, 214 etc.

 

[1man3letters]

B W1zZ (i was saying this to you on the OBS when we were both on but you were drinking so dont know if you recall it)

baraka vs radien is WAY worse than you making it out for baraka,i woulnt even be happy with calling it 4-6, i have it a 3-7.
i would take any cage,lao and even kenshi before id want to play a radien with baraka and heres why...

radien shuts down baraka so many of baraka tools and punishes hard if the baraka isnt aware of this,
lets break down what baraka cant do against radien.
*using d4 on hit for pressure/mixups- d4 mixups totally gone and punished if you try it.
*blade charge- any version from all distances punished by superman or even tele to full combo
*frametraps- radien can OS the f4-b3-f2/throw mixup after barakas frametraps, all the best possible options from frametraps are now d1.
*d1/d3~slices on block - baraka cant do this either because radien has 10 frames to tele out before the slices for b3/superman punish
*any corner reset b3/f2 mixup from anything other than max height corner reset is now also void because of tele so he doesnteven have to use meter for escape
*spark - not that its the most useful projectile anyway but if baraka tries to space using it,free block string for radien
*jip - unless getting lucky on a crossover (to which radien has toolsto deal with anyway with ex shocker0 baraka isntgoingto get his jip mixups going because lets faceit, tele is a awesome "anti air"
*SPIN IS NOT A PROBLEM FOR RADIEN.im acutally sick of people saying(both rak/rad players) spin is good in this MU,its only good if the radien player is an idiot.
the only time baraka should be able to spin radien is if radien is full screen and just throws it out to get in which he doesnt need to be doing at all.
teles after pokes,block strings will leave radien outside the hitbox of spin for a free b3 punish
*radien doesnt have to deal with the vacuum/fucked up hitbox of chop chop as superman fucks this move up 10 for 10.
so now that is all four of baraka's specials heavily limited.his specials probly being one of the best things about him.

what can radien not do against baraka when compared to this???

at midscreen radien out damages baraka with baraka only slighty out damaging radien in the corner.
although radien can be alot more free to pressure corner wise and with both baraka and radien in a mu,LBSH alotthe match going to bein corner.
baraka ones have ex blade charge to try bust through b312/334 but it can be baited for a b3 combo when blocked at that range.
possible 38% or baraka getting 13% and takingthe damage from the normal also, this meta game always i radiens favor.
baraka HAS TO play the way radien wants to play and playing a reaction style baraka with heavily limited tools is no easy task what so ever.
radien has a higher margin for error in this mu than baraka does also.

more than anything else,even more to how much of baraka's options radien limits or takes away, imo the thing thatis added on top of this is the main reason the MU score is pushed to 3-7 in my eyes, radien does 1 of the things that hurts how baraka can be effective more than anything...he totally stops baraka ability to control space or play his footsies game. kang/kabal do this to him with projectiles but radien does it just as well in a different way


also im not trying to break your balls saying all this, i know u said u have little exp against high level barakas,sure thereeonly a handfull of baraka players worldwide but the radien mu is a one i have played for many many hours and i beleive i have broken it down correctly to were at this pointof the game life span it is a 3-7 mu, not unwinable put imo not a 4-6 on any day of the weekwhen the players know the MU

 

[GLoRToR]

I don't feel Raiden players of my own level to have any form of advantage against my Jade. Her pokes are faster, she has better armor, she can glow through his strings, punish his specials on reaction, and his damage is not much better than hers. I'd call it 5-5. I get beaten by better players who play Raiden, but those players can beat me with Shang too, for whom Jade was supposed to be a nightmare.

 

[Wildabeast]

how the fuck is it only 6 4 vs sub when he can ex superman almost all his strings, teleport out of his d4 and punish any followups and is near impossible to catch when having the lead?

Because if Sub gets the life lead he can make life just as difficult for Raiden, but yes its much easier for Raiden to get the lead than it is Sub Zero.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

I feel scorpion is a 5 5, vortex is a problem as always and i can blow up the b3 with my d3 and well spaced b2s and f4s as well. Raiden's pressure isn't enough for scorpion to be afraid of and scorpion can interrupt raidens string. I can use jik air grab to blow up standing normal anti airs. Tele is -13 if i'm correct, so i can punish that with a full combo. Scorpion's standing 1, standing 1,1, and standing 1,1,1 will have raiden guessing what to do after, and those can be used to bait out teles/ get grabs in.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

I got jax beating him 6 4 bcuz he can abuse raiden's hitbox all day with f4,1,3 and if raiden tries to just tele, he can punish with f4,1,3. Armor moves can interrupt raiden's strings and jax's projectile is faster than raidens. The reason it isn't worse imo is bcuz jax can't ground pound/ground pound cancel at all bcuz thunder tackle can easily punish those. Jax also has the faster footsies tools and jik air grab to blow up standing normals.

I got lao beating him 6 4, maybe 7 3 bcuz 21 is a nightmare for raiden, raiden has a huge hitbox that 2,1 and teleport can abuse. The footsies game favors lao, and you can't teleport fast enough to punish a low hat, but can thunder tackle it on reaction if i'm correct. Lao can divekick to close distance and get out the corner vs him and can interrupt any string by raiden with a spin/xray. Lao can also punish his tele with 2,1 to spin for a full combo. Raiden won't have an easy time keeping him out of the air as well.

 

[InFlames]

Damn. I knew the Noob v Raiden MU was bad, but not 7-3 bad.