Match-up Discussion Alright, here is my Deathstroke matchup chart, would like to hear the thoughts of the community

[NYCj360]

Ares: 5-5
*Bane: 5-5 Community Member Doombawkz changed my perception on this matchup. DS cant punish any of his good options and is fucked once hes knocked down and bane has a bit of venom. The only reason i have it as 5-5 is because of venom debuff, it throws of part of the match for bane. Im putting up a video on this matchup, i've been wanting to for a while but haven't gotten around to it.
*Batgirl: 5-5 Other than a bad trade of grapple i dont see what makes this anything other than a 5-5. I've played Jailhouse offline and his batgirl is ridiculous, the only thing i really have to deal with is her vortex, just as any other character.
Batman: 5-5
Black Adam: 4-6
Catwoman: 5-5
Cyborg: 6-4 gun shots set the pace of this match too hard. I can sit there doing standing gun shots over and over again and he has no mobility options other than blocking and walking forward, which will take him forever to get to me. LGS blows up instant air fireball and causes knockdown and spacing once again to continue my BS with DS. Grappling hook armor gets exposed by standing gunshots too. Upclose DS has a better footsie and whiff punishing game along with just overall damage output.
Doomsday: 5-5
Flash: 5-5
*Green Arrow: 5-5
Green Lantern: 5-5
*Harley Quinn: 6-4
*Hawkgirl: 7-3 She has a hard time doing anything lol. He can completely shut out her trait and punish her mace charge on block with a knockdown. He shuts out some of her best options although i will admit to my ignorance in this matchup, it could very well be 6-4 but i haven't played any HG that has really given me any issues nor have i seen anything in her kit that would make it easier for her.
*Joker: 6-4
Killer Frost: 4-6
Lex Luthor: 6-4
*Lobo: 6-4
Nightwing: 5-5
Raven: 5-5
Scorpion: 3-7
Shazam: 6-4
Sinestro: 5-5
Solomon Grundy: 6-4
Superman: 4-6
*Wonder Woman: 5-5


Everything else i agree with

 

[Matix218]

J360 So 21 matchups are either even or in DS's favor and only 4 are disadvantage?

That looks like a solid tournament character to me.

I do main DS but I don't have enough matchup experience against many of the characters (lobo, hawkgirl, bane, batgirl, etc) to really have input on those matchups.

Do you think the recent patch notes with nerfs to black Adam dive kick and Superman breath (2 of the losing matchups) will be enough to make those closer to even?

 

[Duck Nation]

That looks like a solid tournament character to me.

He's unquestionably a solid tournament character. The only person who thinks he isn't is m2dave. He doesn't have any super strong matches except against characters who get no tournament play anyways, but all his matchups against very common tournament characters are highly winnable just the same. I think his most serious tournament threat is actually Nightwing, who is not a common character.

 

[Breaker]

@m2dave this is my analysis; Injustice is not like any other fighting game in the sense that each character is unique as they were designed in comic books eg. to play a good Batman you must love Batman to such extent that you can think, move and react like Batman. This may sound ridicoulus to some but this is absolutly something that the designers intended.
Slade Wilson: Master of his enviornment, Martial Arts Master, meta-human Will power and a strategic master, his word is his bond the contract will be fulfilled, a strong marksman; Deathstroke relies way less on his guns and it was a misconception to think he's most powerful trait are his guns... he is the weapon not the guns.
You may regard this as none sense because it comes down to frame data this and intractable that MU blah whatever but really a lot of bright individuals are able to tell that almost every character is good in this game in their own way. If you don't have success with a certain character chances are more often than not that your chemistry with the character is weak, whether you'd like to admit that or not. Bottom line I fear no MU as I have overcome some of the worst Deathstroke MUs. With Deathstroke you have to play ballsy cause Slade Wilson is fearless, he is VERY high risk and high reward, I have no idea why you say his 50/50 is weak (in comparison maybe?) even than I don't except it. Sure REO is not around for me to test my skills with but when I faced REO's prize winning Kabal in Toryuken in first to 10 mirror match he was more than surprised to see a "scrubb" take more than a couple games of his Main.

MITDJT, take Scorpions pace away from him and you'll see what I mean, the character relies on controling the momentum of the match as well as the pace you played with Scorpion so you know I'm not making this up; if you take that away from Scorpion than it becomes a guessing game for the Scorpion player as much as you. Once Scorpion is more hesitant in the match you can control him a little bit better, Remember it's still a losing MU but its far far from being 9 outta 10 games.

 

[Breaker]

J360 NeoRussells Hawkgirl will change your mind on that 7-3, If MU charts are suppose to represent the max potential than that MU is not 7-3 in DS favor its a 6-4.

Bane 5-5 really?? He's 100% clumsy and slow when DS is in.... and I've played my share of solid Banes and I just can't agree with that.

 

[Owerbart]

J360 I agree with your whole chart except for the Bane MU. That I really got to see it. I've played against good banes and it just looks like you don't even have to try.

MITDJT Could you explain why you think Cyborg is 5-5 and not 6-4 Deathstroke?

Superman is also a MU that I can see as even.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

This game revolves around 50/50 mix ups, footsies, and character power (trait). Let me do the analysis for you.

Deathstroke has a weak 50/50 mix up with poor set ups. The top tier characters of the game (i.e., Batgirl, Killer Frost, and Wonder Woman) not only have more powerful 50/50 mix ups, but they also have resets/loops. For example, Batgirl can do b+2,u+3, b+2,u+3, d+2 xx bola, jump 2, b+2,d+3 (+30 on hit) and get a guaranteed 50/50 mix up. This set up is far more powerful than anything Deathstroke players can dream of in terms of setting up b+1,u+2 / b+2. Killer Frost and Wonder Woman have similar set ups that ignore wake up attacks.

Deathstroke has average footsies. The best aspect of his is footsies is f+3, which is arguably the best f+3 in the game, but f+3 is still an attack that has 30 frames of start up. The top tier characters of the game (i.e., Aquaman, Green Lantern, Superman, etc.) have far superior footsies. They have quick, long-ranged normal attacks that can be hit confirmed into very damaging combos. Aquaman has b+1,2. Green Lantern has b+1,3. Superman has f+2,3. Deathstroke has absolutely nothing in comparison.

Character power (trait) is a bonus addition to gameplay if your character has a great one. Some top tier characters of the game (Batman, Sinestro, etc.) have excellent traits that can change the match up in your favor once you activate them. Deathstroke's trait, on the other hand, is abysmal. It takes a second and a half to start up. Completely useless.

Pre-patch low gunshots helped to compensate some of these weaknesses, but Deathstroke does not currently exceed in a single category that is relevant to the meta game of Injustice. He is mid tier and will indirectly deteriorate when NRS releases top tier DLC characters like Batgirl and Scorpion. General Zod already makes this character look worthless.

You make it seem like deathstroke has like 10 bad mus, only wins a few mus, then goes even with the rest. Let me tell you why deathstroke will always be legit: He has good zoning, he controls interactables better than most because he can just air gun ppl who try to use them while he has no issue being able to use them. His footsies aren't bad at all. He doesn't have a f2 like supes or b1 like GL, but that doesn't mean his footsies aren't good. Also he has one of the best jump attacks in the game (his jump 3), which sets up ambiguous situations when you land a knockdown. He doesn't need meter for combos, so he can save it for clashing/ doing ex moves/ a super if necessary. You can't just jump mindlessly at him because of his sword flip an his sword spin is a good wakeup to use that is safe on block. His f2,3 string is plus like 9 and f2 starts up at 7 frames, so he has that up close and a 50/50 that works well. He f3 is very good because it leads to a good combo/ safe/ crosses up in the corner. I haven't even listed everything he can do that makes him good, seriously, give DS another chance because you are giving up on him too quickly.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

@m2dave this is my analysis; Injustice is not like any other fighting game in the sense that each character is unique as they were designed in comic books eg. to play a good Batman you must love Batman to such extent that you can think, move and react like Batman. This may sound ridicoulus to some but this is absolutly something that the designers intended.
Slade Wilson: Master of his enviornment, Martial Arts Master, meta-human Will power and a strategic master, his word is his bond the contract will be fulfilled, a strong marksman; Deathstroke relies way less on his guns and it was a misconception to think he's most powerful trait are his guns... he is the weapon not the guns.
You may regard this as none sense because it comes down to frame data this and intractable that MU blah whatever but really a lot of bright individuals are able to tell that almost every character is good in this game in their own way. If you don't have success with a certain character chances are more often than not that your chemistry with the character is weak, whether you'd like to admit that or not. Bottom line I fear no MU as I have overcome some of the worst Deathstroke MUs. With Deathstroke you have to play ballsy cause Slade Wilson is fearless, he is VERY high risk and high reward, I have no idea why you say his 50/50 is weak (in comparison maybe?) even than I don't except it. Sure REO is not around for me to test my skills with but when I faced REO's prize winning Kabal in Toryuken in first to 10 mirror match he was more than surprised to see a "scrubb" take more than a couple games of his Main.

MITDJT, take Scorpions pace away from him and you'll see what I mean, the character relies on controling the momentum of the match as well as the pace you played with Scorpion so you know I'm not making this up; if you take that away from Scorpion than it becomes a guessing game for the Scorpion player as much as you. Once Scorpion is more hesitant in the match you can control him a little bit better, Remember it's still a losing MU but its far far from being 9 outta 10 games.

yeah I wouldn't say it is worse than 7 3 unless DS can't do anything at all. I would still like to run it some more, but i'm definitely taking your info into account for sure.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

J360 I agree with your whole chart except for the Bane MU. That I really got to see it. I've played against good banes and it just looks like you don't even have to try.

MITDJT Could you explain why you think Cyborg is 5-5 and not 6-4 Deathstroke?

Superman is also a MU that I can see as even.

I have played the cyborg matchup a decent amount of times, but you know what, it definitely seems like DS has an advantage now that I think about it lol, i'm making the change.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

J360, good mu chart and some good explanations of the numbers that you wanted to explain. Our charts are very similar definitely. Nice to know that another fellow DS player pretty much has the same chart I have.

 

[M2Dave]

He has good zoning.

No, he does not. His zoning went from being the very best in the game to average within a patch. Low gunshots have twice as many recovery frames since vanilla. The guns may as well not even exist versus Batgirl, Killer Frost, Raven, Scorpion, and The Flash, and all of these characters are very good and will be popular in tournaments.

I am aware that you like to promote mid tier characters as you did with Liu Kang in MK, but Deathstroke stopped being relevant two patches ago. If you want to go to this year's Evolution and get blown up by random Scorpion players, that choice is yours. But I would suggest picking a top tier character. Why would you waste your time, money, and talent using Deathstroke when you can choose Aquaman, Batgirl, Batman, Killer Frost, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc.? Deathstroke is only suitable for casual gameplay.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

No, he does not. His zoning went from being the very best in the game to average within a patch. Low gunshots have twice as many recovery frames since vanilla. The guns may as well not even exist versus Batgirl, Killer Frost, Raven, Scorpion, and The Flash, and all of these characters are very good and will be popular in tournaments.

I am aware that you like to promote mid tier characters as you did with Liu Kang in MK, but Deathstroke stopped being relevant two patches ago. If you want to go to this year's Evolution and get blown up by random Scorpion players, that choice is yours. But I would suggest picking a top tier character. Why would you waste your time, money, and talent using Deathstroke when you can choose Aquaman, Batgirl, Batman, Killer Frost, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc.? Deathstroke is only suitable for casual gameplay.

uh liu kang wasn't really even mid tier, and I actually proved how good he was/ xblades did as well. There was a liu kang in the top 8 of both evos mk9 has had, but that is beside the point. I'm not getting blown up by some random scorpion player, randomness is what I exposed in mk9 and I will do the same in IGAU lol. I'm not wasting no time or money at all actually, and I do use superman and black adam as well if I actually need them. I still can't believe that you think DS isn't that good when slips got top 4 at UFGT, J360 got top 16 at ECT, and aris has won multiple Wednesday nights fights........, well I guess the DS community will just have to prove you wrong because seeing is believing.

 

[AssassiN]

No, he does not. His zoning went from being the very best in the game to average within a patch. Low gunshots have twice as many recovery frames since vanilla. The guns may as well not even exist versus Batgirl, Killer Frost, Raven, Scorpion, and The Flash, and all of these characters are very good and will be popular in tournaments.

I am aware that you like to promote mid tier characters as you did with Liu Kang in MK, but Deathstroke stopped being relevant two patches ago. If you want to go to this year's Evolution and get blown up by random Scorpion players, that choice is yours. But I would suggest picking a top tier character. Why would you waste your time, money, and talent using Deathstroke when you can choose Aquaman, Batgirl, Batman, Killer Frost, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc.? Deathstroke is only suitable for casual gameplay.

Did you really just say that LK was mid-tier in MK9?
You really do only look at zoning and nothing else...

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Did you really just say that LK was mid-tier in MK9?
You really do only look at zoning and nothing else...

well I guess zod will suit him from the looks of it. There is no issue with DS's or sinestro's zoning, but I guess he wants a pure zoner like dhalsim (even tho he has a tele of course). Or a zoner like guile/ morrigan in umvc3.

 

[Breaker]

General m2dave wants a zoner that has frame-traps, complete control of the screen at all times, cannot be counter zoned, cannot be creeped on. He pretty much wants a buffed Freddy in Injustice.

 

[AssassiN]

well I guess zod will suit him from the looks of it. There is no issue with DS's or sinestro's zoning, but I guess he wants a pure zoner like dhalsim (even tho he has a tele of course). Or a zoner like guile/ morrigan in umvc3.

Nothing wrong about focusing on zoning, if he can achieve that with Zod then good for him.
But to go ahead and call LK mid-tier is just wow... He shouldn't judge characters only on zoning, I mean look at how he is saying that LK is mid-tier, how bad DS is now and how he dropped Skarlet after NRS nerfed her daggers and started downplaying her just like he is doing with DS now.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Nothing wrong about focusing on zoning, if he can achieve that with Zod then good for him.
But to go ahead and call LK mid-tier is just wow... He shouldn't judge characters only on zoning, I mean look at how he is saying that LK is mid-tier, how bad DS is now and how he dropped Skarlet after NRS nerfed her daggers and started downplaying her just like he is doing with DS now.

lol dave just has to have his zoning of course. If scarlet kept her daggers, he would've kept playing her. I'm surprised he didn't main kenshi in mk9 when his zoning was super good.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

General m2dave wants a zoner that has frame-traps, complete control of the screen at all times, cannot be counter zoned, cannot be creeped on. He pretty much wants a buffed Freddy in Injustice.

he needs morrigan from umvc3 haha.

 

[Breaker]

General m2dave will wreck havoc with Zod upon those who bullied his Deathstroke.

 

[Ermaculate_Slim]

General m2dave will wreck havoc with Zod upon those who bullied his Deathstroke.

Pfft Zod is easy money

 

[Doombawkz]

Ares: 5-5
*Bane: 5-5 Community Member Doombawkz

Why have you summoned me here, mortal? :|
Also with the d.2 changes coming next patch we may have to look back into it.

 

[Duck Nation]

Deathstroke is not a zoner. His guns should be thought of as extremely long range pokes and not fireballs.

 

[Vagrant]

I don't really play the game anymore but does superman really beat DS? Why if he does. I remember this being one of supermans hardest

GGA Slips
GGA 16 Bit
ImNewbieSauce

Figured you'd get a kick out of this.

 

[Peckapowa]

freddy's zoning was beyond unfair, without a teleport or being kabal if played properly you are not getting in.... the man has an anti-air that at midscreen does 40%, let alone an amazing 50/50 game.... talk about the most underplayed and slept on 3rd best character in mk who only loses to lao smoke and kabal and destroys the rest of the cast (excluding mileena and skarlet)

insane speed and pushback on his projectiles, where if not jumped perfectly on reaction at full screen could be anti-aired back to full screen, with a teleport away and hitbox lowering stance with insane reach and a super safe low...

 

[Mikman360]

*yawn* I've been out for a while, lurking in this thread observing the discussion.

WIth the new Zod patch coming out though, some things may change. Flash is getting buffed (fork me lol), and BA and KF are getting nerfed. Those nerfs might actually help tip those matches back in our favor. A lot of people even said "the damage is the only thing that makes BA a negative MU." Superman is getting nerfed too.

I still believe Superman and Scorpion are 4-6, no more, no less.