General/Other - Sub-Zero 3 Variations of Sub-Zero discussion

[Rickyraws]

Parry or clone, parry or clone, parry or clone....AAAARGH!
Clone brings me back to my MK Sub, parry brings me back to good ol' Injustice. And I know a thing or two about injustice...

 

[Braindead]

The three variations are called Cryomancer, Unbreakable and Grand Master.

I had an orgasm when I read "Unbreakable".
Sub-Zero of House Martell confirmed.

 

[haketh]

Is anyone worried that the excessive amount of acrobatic interactables might nullify clone traps/setups though? If the demo levels are anything to go off of, it looks like each stage has an interactable in the center that you can super jump off of, as well as the stage corners.

You can't block when you're in the air so when clones outa dn they try to use an interactable to avoid the situation you can punish it.

 

[CCVengeance]

The three variations are called Cryomancer, Unbreakable and Grand Master.

I had an orgasm when I read "Unbreakable".
Sub-Zero of House Martell confirmed.

"You raped her, eviscerated her, you sliced up her children!"

 

[TemperingMoon]

Variation 1. Ice Weapons
Variation 2. Parry and Ice Armor causing SZ to take less damage (not sure if its on hit, chip, or both)
Variation 3. Clone

Universal specials are Ice Blast and Slide. EX slide still has armor.

...Just a question Tom...Are you planning to Main Sub-Zero for Mortal Kombat X? Thanks in advance for answering sir!

 

[SilverKeyMan]

Some images I captured from the various trailers (sorry for quality)'.

First costume (Cryomancer?) - 1 Badge, Standard Mask



Second costume (Grand Master?) - 2 Badges, Standard Mask


Third costume (Unbreakable?) - 1 Badge, Ice Mask


What is really interesting is that the Cryomancer "dagger stab" move is either a super or a different throw from the Unbreakable throw (lower right image of Costume 3).

 

[MagnetoHalfway]

So now when the dick eaters argue over who's the best with a certain character, they will have to break it down by Variation.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

See when I watched the SZ matches with the "ice weapons" he still had a parry move that he did for a free combo on ex version

Unless that was his unbreakable version........idk.

 

[Pterodactyl]

I wished Ice hammer caused a ground bounce!!!

It does, there is footage of it somewhere.

---

Ice weapons for sure, the gameplay of the variation is so damn fun looking and he seems to attack so fast compared to MK9.

His combos are going to be so cool.

I never liked having to rely on or play Sub based around the Ice Clone in MK9 and i'm glad to be able to do something else with him now.

 

[aldazo]

It does, there is footage of it somewhere.

The enhanced version, not the normal one.

 

[Pterodactyl]

Also, it's waaaaaaaaaaaaay to early for you people to be claiming what's the best style and what isn't, especially if you haven't played the game yet.

For multiple reasons.

 

[SilverKeyMan]

Also, it's waaaaaaaaaaaaay to early for you people to be claiming what's the best style and what isn't, especially if you haven't played the game yet.

For multiple reasons.

Says the guy with the "Blood god" tag under his name.

 

[Pterodactyl]

Believe it or not I'm actually planning on using the Sun God version.

I love grapplers.

 

[SilverKeyMan]

Believe it or not I'm actually planning on using the Sun God version.

I love grapplers.

The point still stands. Some people are getting excited about certain versions of Sub-Zero (Ice clone turtling and corner shenanigans versus ice weapon rushdown), while you are getting excited about a certain version of Kahn (grappling). I would say it's the same thing, but truthfully it is not.

Sub-Zero has had a few incarnations, and character loyalists know which powers have worked well for them in the past. Kahn is a brand new character, and any preference is based on pure speculation rather than past experience. So while I don't judge anyone for their level of excitement, I most definitely do think you are in a weak position to criticize others.

 

[Pterodactyl]

Let me break this down for you, since you seem to be twisting my words really bad.

This is exactly what I said:

Also, it's waaaaaaaaaaaaay to early for you people to be claiming what's the best style and what isn't, especially if you haven't played the game yet.

For multiple reasons.

I'm not claiming any style is better than any other, i'm saying which one I like more.

There is a clear and obvious difference.

There is absolutely no reason for these two meanings to get confused the way you've confused them or are comparing them.

This:

Believe it or not I'm actually planning on using the Sun God version.

I love grapplers.

Does not = "I'm picking Sun God because it's the better option, grapples will be super strong in this game and War God looks too unpredictable..." or anything like it and I've said nothing like that.

This is because what I am saying is that I enjoy a certain type of character, not that that specific type of character is the better or worse of the other types of character.

There has been no point, in any area, in which I said any version of this character is inferior or superior to another version.

I have however, stated which version I will use and why, and why has nothing to do with how good that version is.
Sun God could be hot garbage(and there is no current way of knowing about it this early) and I would still play it.

Because I like grapplers, not because of what tier or level of viability it holds.

Someone saying "I'm going to use this character because I like x" is not the same as someone saying "I'm going to use this character, it's obviously the better choice because of x".

 

[SilverKeyMan]

Let's see...

This motherfucker is gonna be good.

The more I inspect the footage, the more ridiculous this guy gets.

We are discussing which version of a character we prefer, and which one we think will be more powerful based off of past experience. You are declaring a completely new character as "motherfucking good" and "rediculous" without any experience to back it up.

Again, I don't care if you are excited. We are excited too. But I don't think it is fair to jump into a different character forum and start throwing rocks for the same thing you are doing back in your own character thread.

 

[Pterodactyl]

Now let me break that down for you.

I think Kotal Kahn will be good for me.

This does not mean he will be good in the game, or for you, or for anyone else.

This is because he has things that I find appealing, like grapples, and a health buff move.

And even then, saying something looks good is not the same as saying something is better or worse than something else.

Ridiculous would be an accurate description of a character using an EX bar to regain 20% of their health.

That doesn't mean that's final or that it's good or bad, but it does mean that I think it's ridiculous. Now you should go look up what "ridiculous means" because you seem to think it means the same as "amazing" or "great".

It's also incredibly good for me.

I even said I thought it was incredibly good.

I guess I have to add "for me" after everything now though.

Those of us who haven't played this game shouldn't assume that certain move-sets are better than others, and those of use who have should know that everything now is susceptible to change, this game is a year away.

Anything else? You seem to like to assume and twist.

 

[SilverKeyMan]

Now let me break that down for you.

I think Kotal Kahn will be good for me.

Yes, I understand you. Now please understand me.

Rushdown "Ice Weapon" Sub-Zero will be good for me.
Turtling "Ice Clone" Sub-Zero will be good for some of our MK9 tournament players that have used this strategy very effectively.

People are choosing their favorites based on past experience with the character, just as you are doing with other grappling characters. And yet none of us are going into the Kotal Kahn thread and telling you that it is "waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too early" to make those type of decisions.

Now a little simpler:
1. You are excited and choosing your favorites.
2. We are excited and choosing our favorites, but you are stepping in here and calling us out on it.

Notice the unbalance?

 

[Pterodactyl]

So you're saying it isn't too early to say that one version of a character is better than another before the game has even came out or the person making the claim has played a demo?

You are literally making a claim about something you would know nothing about.

This isn't and MK9 port, it works on the same engine but anyone who has seen the gameplay can tell that this is clearly not a re-skinned or added-ontoMK9, and we have 0 idea how the returning moves have been altered and if they've been improved or made worse, or how they even work in this game.

This is why those claims that hold no water.

It isn't, however, too early to say that you will like one variation more than the others because the description and gameplay given of it fits the archetype you enjoy the most.

Saying "I i'm going to use Grand Master Subzero because I love ice clones and zoning" is different than saying "I'm going to use Grand Master Subzero because ice clones and zoning are better than ice weapons and parries in this game that both I haven't played and will be changed considerably over the course of the next year".

There are no future predictors in these forums, so claiming what's the best or worst option this early is meaningless.

Saying something looks good currently, however, actually makes sense.

 

[SilverKeyMan]

Saying "I i'm going to use Grand Master Subzero because I love ice clones and Zoning" is different than saying "I'm going to use Grand Master Subzero because ice clones and zoning are better than ice weapons and parries in this game that both I haven't played and will be changed considerably over the course of the next year".

I feel like I'm just repeating myself, so I'm going to save some time and just start quoting myself.

Sub-Zero has had a few incarnations, and character loyalists know which powers have worked well for them in the past.

We are discussing which version of a character we prefer, and which one we think will be more powerful based off of past experience.

Rushdown "Ice Weapon" Sub-Zero will be good for me.
Turtling "Ice Clone" Sub-Zero will be good for some of our MK9 tournament players that have used this strategy very effectively.

People are choosing their favorites based on past experience with the character...

You do understand that Sub-Zero is not a new character, and that we have seen variations on all of these powers before, right?

 

[Pterodactyl]

You do know this is a new and different game, right?

For all you know in the final product, Ice Clone could turn out to be absolutely useless outside of extremely specific situations. There are a whole host of things that can be entirely different from before that will dictate how any returning move can end up like. This is because this is a new and different game and none of us have any idea on what's been changed or not. For all we know they could do crazy things like make Ice clone breakable by projectiles, or make it so you cant use any special moves while it's up. They could make ice slide barely go more than three feet in front of you, or make the ice ball pitter out instead of going fullscreen. We have no way of knowing at this point and everything is assumption. Even what we see in the demo can be made different before 2015.

Because this game isn't MK9, or any previous MK games, and is susceptible to change until release, or when they announce it is a finished product.

Past experiences with the character mean shit all at the moment until they show us a lot more, or let more people play and talk.

You literally know barely anything about this brand new game.

And just going "Well, I assume it's going to be like before" means nothing.

 

[SilverKeyMan]

I think I've articulated myself clearly enough, and I think you have made your intentions equally clear. I doubt we'll agree with each other, so I hereby withdraw from this discussion.

 

[Pterodactyl]

I think I've articulated myself clearly enough, and I think you have made your intentions equally clear. I doubt we'll agree with each other, so I hereby withdraw from this discussion.

I guess, I just don't see how you can try to argue inarguable facts.

One last time before I put this to bed

Facts:
This game is brand new and different, barely anyone has played it, NRS has given out barely any real info on it, no one here knows the full extent of the changes, no one knows how viable anything in the game is compared to anything else, and what anyone knows is susceptible to change because this game still has a year of development.

 

[xxsledgrenxx]

imagine dlc fighting variations ?

 

[Braindead]

Alright here is what the select screen says about each variation:

Cryomancer: Adds the ability to summon Ice Weapons.
Unbreakable (Kreygasm): Adds Frozen Aura and Barrier of Frost.
Grandmaster: Adds Ice Clone that can be thrown or used as a shield.