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Between the two options I have mentioned, which do you value more?

  • Technical

    Votes: 15 27.8%

  • Psychological

    Votes: 39 72.2%
  • Total voters
    54
Red Reaper

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
FOREVER KING said:
That's not true. I keep winning, but no other Batman has ever kept winning to make it up to me, which is why I've never fought another Batman in tournament before
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Good point.

BYEs increase those chances though as long as you keep winning.

PS: You played a Batman player at EVO: NubCakes. Whether or not he used Batman, I have no idea.
 
SLy

SLy

Noob
I tend to realize that players more psychological oriented tends to have better defense than Technical oriented players. However technical players are more confident offensively than psychological oriented people...None the less the great players are the ones that can find the balance of both.
 
Red Reaper

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
True MeNaCe said:
I tend to realize that players more psychological oriented tends to have better defense than Technical oriented players. However technical players are more confident offensively than psychological oriented people...None the less the great players are the ones that can find the balance of both.
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It kan be either for both. Psychological people kan block korrectly because they "sense" it. Technical people, block korrectly because they see a pattern. Same with other types of defense.

The Technical are better than the Psychological when put in situations they understand. The Psychological are better than the Technical when there are moments of uncertainty.

All great players have both: Klutch players like Tyrant are more Psychological. Technical Players like @Zyphox succeed when they are better prepared.
 
Reactions: SLy
Malarkey

Malarkey

"What's that? Something like underground?"
Forbidden_Donut said:
Yes exactly! I've been saying it's 6-4 batman for a while now.. So the two top batmen in the game and the best bane in the world say it's 6-4 batman.. Why are people still debating this! Lol. @Blind_Ducky @Malarkey
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We are debating it because the best Bane in the world says it is a possible 5-5 and the Batman with the best tournament results has 5-5 on his matchup chart. How isn't that up for discussion?

I'm more than happy to keep discussing it on Monday though my friend!
 
Forbidden_Donut

Forbidden_Donut

"You think you bad? Pffft, You ain't bad.."
Malarkey said:
We are debating it because the best Bane in the world says it is a possible 5-5 and the Batman with the best tournament results has 5-5 on his matchup chart. How isn't that up for discussion?

I'm more than happy to keep discussing it on Monday though my friend!
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Oh shit, i wasnt aware that King changed his number to 5-5... He was saying 6-4 for a while. And Max said that in the current meta, its 6-4 batman, but he thinks that in a short while, the matchup can become 5-5. I love our batman Bane discussions dude, I wouldnt want it any other way! Besides, its a lot better then my discussions with Ducky.. "Bane 5-5's batman because I said so.. So STFU. Eat a dick. " lol
 
SonicFox5000

SonicFox5000

The Best.
I woulf call myself 95% physocological
80% technical.
I learned BGs footsie/neutral game, and I know how to get into your head free.
 
Malarkey

Malarkey

"What's that? Something like underground?"
Forbidden_Donut said:
Oh shit, i wasnt aware that King changed his number to 5-5... He was saying 6-4 for a while. And Max said that in the current meta, its 6-4 batman, but he thinks that in a short while, the matchup can become 5-5. I love our batman Bane discussions dude, I wouldnt want it any other way! Besides, its a lot better then my discussions with Ducky.. "Bane 5-5's batman because I said so.. So STFU. Eat a dick. " lol
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Of course brotha, it's always good to keep all avenues of thinking open. We should start off with some discussion Monday! Also, let's sit down and play a longer set, we never get to. I'll only tell you to eat a dick once, just to see how it feels... ;)
 
ForeverKing

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
Malarkey said:
Of course brotha, it's always good to keep all avenues of thinking open. We should start off with some discussion Monday! Also, let's sit down and play a longer set, we never get to. I'll only tell you to eat a dick once, just to see how it feels... ;)
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After playing Bane every single day with my little brother, I would say it is a debatable 5-5 or 6-4 Batman. Leaning more towards 5-5 tho. Bane gets zoned out really well, but once he gets in or gets Batman into the corner he is done. And Bane isn't gonna be taking nearly as much chip damage getting in as Batman is going to be taking when he gets cornered
 
Malarkey

Malarkey

"What's that? Something like underground?"
FOREVER KING said:
After playing Bane every single day with my little brother, I would say it is a debatable 5-5 or 6-4 Batman. Leaning more towards 5-5 tho. Bane gets zoned out really well, but once he gets in or gets Batman into the corner he is done. And Bane isn't gonna be taking nearly as much chip damage getting in as Batman is going to be taking when he gets cornered
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This is pretty much exactly how I feel about the matchup as well. Batman can obviously zone extremely well, but as you said, the chip taken to close the gap isn't a huge deal. In neutral, if Batman doesn't have a bat out he gets out footsied hard, and Bane's amazing anti-airs should keep him grounded. Even with bats out, Bane gains meter like crazy, so why not push block them out and avoid the hassle of having a big hitbox vs BM's J2.

This is one matchup where Bane needs to conserve his venom, and patiently walk Batman into the corner. There isn't any need to pop venom while trying to get in, force Batman to guess for the full 21 seconds of venom once you do. Once knocked down, especially in the corner, what the hell is Batman supposed to do? By is 2-3 low chance guesses from his lifebar being gone. I understand parry is an option but I see no reason to not just use D1 for oki. It's still a shitty guessing game for Batman, and full punishes any puny slide attempts.

I hope the meta of the matchup continues to evolve, it's still a very fun cat and mouse style matchup to play!
 
Forbidden_Donut

Forbidden_Donut

"You think you bad? Pffft, You ain't bad.."
Malarkey said:
This is pretty much exactly how I feel about the matchup as well. Batman can obviously zone extremely well, but as you said, the chip taken to close the gap isn't a huge deal. In neutral, if Batman doesn't have a bat out he gets out footsied hard, and Bane's amazing anti-airs should keep him grounded. Even with bats out, Bane gains meter like crazy, so why not push block them out and avoid the hassle of having a big hitbox vs BM's J2.

This is one matchup where Bane needs to conserve his venom, and patiently walk Batman into the corner. There isn't any need to pop venom while trying to get in, force Batman to guess for the full 21 seconds of venom once you do. Once knocked down, especially in the corner, what the hell is Batman supposed to do? By is 2-3 low chance guesses from his lifebar being gone. I understand parry is an option but I see no reason to not just use D1 for oki. It's still a shitty guessing game for Batman, and full punishes any puny slide attempts.

I hope the meta of the matchup continues to evolve, it's still a very fun cat and mouse style matchup to play!
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Yeah I'm the cat and your the mouse ;) jk.. I'm down dude, let's run a ft10 or something. We've never done that before.
 
ForeverKing

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
Malarkey said:
This is pretty much exactly how I feel about the matchup as well. Batman can obviously zone extremely well, but as you said, the chip taken to close the gap isn't a huge deal. In neutral, if Batman doesn't have a bat out he gets out footsied hard, and Bane's amazing anti-airs should keep him grounded. Even with bats out, Bane gains meter like crazy, so why not push block them out and avoid the hassle of having a big hitbox vs BM's J2.

This is one matchup where Bane needs to conserve his venom, and patiently walk Batman into the corner. There isn't any need to pop venom while trying to get in, force Batman to guess for the full 21 seconds of venom once you do. Once knocked down, especially in the corner, what the hell is Batman supposed to do? By is 2-3 low chance guesses from his lifebar being gone. I understand parry is an option but I see no reason to not just use D1 for oki. It's still a shitty guessing game for Batman, and full punishes any puny slide attempts.

I hope the meta of the matchup continues to evolve, it's still a very fun cat and mouse style matchup to play!
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For sure, the guessing game is in Bane's favor hugely. But at least we can zone him for a while and anti-air his floaty jump easily with trait
 
A F0xy Grampa

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
Tom Brady said:
In fighters my strengths are reading people VERY well (which is why im very good at traps and post knockdown situations), being the most patient and lame player in the Milky Way, and great defense. I am technical to a point but I rely on my ability to make reads over everything else.

IMO im a very good psychological player. This site will say im the worst at everything but you cant get consistent results in ANY game where your character loses 7-3 to close to half the cast without being great with mind games.

The weakness to exploit on me is that my footsies are B/B+ while many players that are top are A/A+ to S. Its IMPOSSIBLE to exploit this when I have an Ice Clone which is why Sub-Zero was such a good fit. B+ footsies + Ice Clone = S+ footsies.


In the case of Aquaman... He is basically a pure footsie character. He does not work off of traps, post knockdown mind games, etc... Its footsies and Trident rush. Theo has great footsies and Aquaman complements his strengths a lot better than mine.
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You see this is why this debate is subjective, I'd say that your ability to make reads is weaker than your technical skill, yet your technical skill is superior to a vast majority.

Or perhaps it could be argued a lack of technical skill (in specific elements of a matchup) could hinder the ability to make reads.
 
Flagg

Flagg

Noob
Well you need high technical skill to be at the top level of anything, but if you are psychologically stronger, you can get in your opponents head, then that must triumph all?
 
Krayzie

Krayzie

Co-founder
Founder
This is why I invented 21 net on block and mb catdash on cross up.

Sometimes you just know, what are ya gonna do? I'll let @TONY-T do the technical stuff for me, and I'll use it when I play. :)

#CyraxPleaseReturnForMKX
#ThereIsWorkToBeDone
 
A F0xy Grampa

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
Krayzie said:
This is why I invented 21 net on block and mb catdash on cross up.

Sometimes you just know, what are ya gonna do? I'll let @TONY-T do the technical stuff for me, and I'll use it when I play. :)

#CyraxPleaseReturnForMKX
#ThereIsWorkToBeDone
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2 1 net on block is the kinda shit that'll kill me
 
Peckapowa

Peckapowa

Noob
I Think Players should be ranked something liek this:
@a foxy grampa (though haven't played in ages and now my martian isn't awful but in general foxy picks up games very fast and shows some talent)

Technical: (some of these overlap because pressure is often read based... and footsies can be very psychological and defense can be about reads)
Execution and Punishment: A / A+
Neutral game
zoning: B
counter-zoning:B
Spacing: A-
Pressure: A
Defense:??? he doesn't need to play defense he's always in your face

Setups:A+
Tech: meow

Psychological:
adaptation: A
mindgames: A
reads: A
Baiting: A
Freedom??: A+

I dunno... can we think of any more in the psychological???

like in my opinion... I am a very technical player... i am not as good (but i can) at playing a sort of calculated madness / aggression like @daddydab32ho can... I have good pressure and very good neutral game... but i need to get a feel for my opponent to get things rolling... i often start bad than adapt... Dab will force you into situations and bait and change it up... i will change it up but not like how dab does.


I am not a big setup guy or tech machine... but i specialize in neutral
 
Peckapowa

Peckapowa

Noob
DarthArma said:
I say its 6-4 batmans favor, and I also say that everyone needs to remember that 6-4s are winnable for either character.
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batman isn't my main... but if it's a situation where batman can turtle... like bane, or shazam... esp. shazam... put me in coach... batman 6-4 shazam
 
Tom Brady

Tom Brady

Noob
A F0xy Grampa said:
You see this is why this debate is subjective, I'd say that your ability to make reads is weaker than your technical skill, yet your technical skill is superior to a vast majority.

Or perhaps it could be argued a lack of technical skill (in specific elements of a matchup) could hinder the ability to make reads.
Click to expand...

We only really played in IGAU as far as lots of games. Didn't play much in MK9 and didn't really play much vs my SZ.

My style with Aquaman was knock you down and keep you there. If I couldn't get knockdowns then I normally struggle with him. Defense online also goes out the window. Had to resort to random B3's to stop you from jumping outside of uppercut range when normally I would AA J2 on reaction to the jump. Also couldn't D1~Rush after blocking B1/B11 because 33, another B1, etc would still hit. Normally you would have to D12~MB Tiara which I can trait out of which forces WW to burn meter and still not launch Aquaman. She could also do 23 and Trade with my D1. This tactic will force WW to never be able to loop he B1 frame trap or get me to take a 50/50 attempt. The meta wasn't really able to expand online which sucks vs a very smart player like yourself. I was also able to hit you with B2's which is complete online bullshit. It was just a crap shoot online.

Of course, if I get knocked down in the corner it was a messed up situation. I could trait and block high which protects me from the 33/b2 but if you dash up and F3, I get crossed up and launched for a combo and end up in the same situation, now without my trait. I could wake up attack to beat the dash F3 but that will lose to a properly timed B2 which also prevents me from using trait and wake up attack. I could guess cross up but still get hit by the non cross up F3. These are just a few of the many scenarios that exist here. It's VERY HARD to "make a read" when there are this many scenarios. This is why IGAU comes down to more pure guessing then pure skill or pure ability to make the better read.

IGAU came down to coin flips (using a 5 sided coin in some instances) without consequence for many characters. Many players that struggle in other fighters could find it a bit easier when so much is based on the SAFE 50/50 where as many other games would punish you heavily or just not even have many (if any) 50/50's. Because of this it could be argued that its actually harder to be good in IGAU due to just how much pure guessing situations you find yourself in. Its always up for debate.
 
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deathblooms2k4

Noob
I don't understand how you guys categorize footsies as technical over psychological. Footsies is the first element of mind games in most fighters. Is my opponent going to back dash or not is he going to try to poke again can I wiff punish him. Typically if you win footsies it's absolutely because you made the right read. Now properly punishing after making the right read is a technical skill. But at the heart of footsies is mind games.

That said most NRS games have some characters that don't give a shit about traditional footsies and as such that element of mind games is lost in those matchups.
 
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