Your move is blocked. You're at a huge disadvantage. Why mash?

I don't understand why people would mash to get frame advantage when armour would neutralize it. What makes me mad is people who ONLY do + moves and NEVER do - moves.

Joker8417 said:

No that isn't the mindset at all. At least not if I'm doing it. The way I look at it is I'm going to test you game one. As a reptile player, I'll elbow dash and elbow dash again. If you punish good on ya ill know to try and block. If not, I get damage and I know you have trouble punishing one of my most valuable moves. If you can't prove to me you can punish why should I respect frame data? However, if you can Punish I'll adjust...Most times, gotta keep my day walker title.

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Scumbag reptile players, doing elbow dash block pressure online. "Why don't you just punish it bro?"

Relocating thread to the Gameplay Topics section for Injustice. I know, I know, this doesn't concern just one fighting game, but I couldn't think of another place to put it.

Anyway, while I disapprove of mashing no matter the situation, it's still the player's responsibility to either be on point with their punish or know when their opponent is at enough disadvantage for them to take the initiative. It's not just one player dictating the course of a match, but two opposing minds doing all they can to overpower one another's strategy.

Games with counter hits do discourage this tactic but it's still viable based on reads.

I really wish NRS games had different hit stun properties for normal and counter hits.

Also going Abare can be useful depending on the game. Playing a moral style in VF is expected but sometimes going off book is very successful, especially if you read a throw is coming,

Just because I'm at disadvantage doesn't mean I'm defenseless. I could use an armored invincible move, I could use a backdash/ sidestep / low or high crush or done other evasive attack. Or if there is push back I could use a longer reaching attack to beat out and whiff punish the faster shorter punish.

Because online+ frame data.

Boomgoesthemite1 said:

Yes ;_; and the mils that mash ex tele like that shit is a frame trap. Or even worst, flip kick into flip kick

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Boom wanna see my upball block infinite?

Joker8417 said:

No that isn't the mindset at all. At least not if I'm doing it. The way I look at it is I'm going to test you game one. As a reptile player, I'll elbow dash and elbow dash again. If you punish good on ya ill know to try and block. If not, I get damage and I know you have trouble punishing one of my most valuable moves. If you can't prove to me you can punish why should I respect frame data? However, if you can Punish I'll adjust...Most times, gotta keep my day walker title.

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Even then, I'll do it anyway.

xKhaoTik said:

What I am saying is when you do a move that is punishable on block, string or special, why are you mashing out an attack knowing you should and could be punished after having that move blocked?

Like is said, I could be wrong, and I understand that you can punish the attempt of the opponents missed punish. It just seems wrong to me lol.

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But it's not wrong. It would had been wrong if you were playing against a computer that you know is gonna punish 100% of times. But you are playing against humans that can fail. To me it doesn't seem wrong at all. It just seems "you are not gonna lose anything if you do it" (though the chances of gaining anything are pretty low at high level).

Error said:

Scumbag reptile players, doing elbow dash block pressure online. "Why don't you just punish it bro?"

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Oh don't think I wouldn't do it offline.

Also it's worth noting that there's a difference between being at a frame disadvantage and being at a punishable frame disadvantage. If I'm just minus, I might block but if I just opened myself up for a full combo punish, why wouldn't I mash and hope you react too late?

I would actually say a large reason why this works is because of the 3D hit boxes NRS uses. If you go to punish a semi-quick recovering move with your fastest normal (generally a standing 1 for most characters) and you are off by a frame or two, your opponent could mash D+1 and punish you by crushing the high attack.

Just another reason why D+1's are typically so strong in NRS games, especially INJ where they can lead to a full combo.

If a move/string is less than -5 then im mashing d1. Other than that no way lol

xKhaoTik said:

I AM! Well, at least I try. Fuck NRS for giving us an online mode that makes YOU get away with teleport. Ho.

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but..................... its -20

Lanterns might gets blocked guess what, another Lanterns MIGHT #MLGPRO Top 8 Gauranteed

It doesn't matter if you're black or white only color that matters is Green - REO 2014

Superman is still top 5 level up bro #fuckmatchupcharts




ok i'll stop

KDZ said:

You're limiting your mind to how frames can work. You're thinking too textbook.
Lets say I do something negative, where I'm at a disadvantage but not punishable, so attacking next is ill advised
Lets say my option there has been to backdash because the fastest moves you had that would interrupt my fastest moves in that scenario cant reach it.
To punish that backdash, you have to do a slower move that will reach it, or dash with me and punish with a faster move
I can in turn predict that scenario and attack with my fastest move, even at disadvantage, if I'm reasonably certain you'll try to stop my escape. Your slower move or movement is negating my frame disadvantage, and instead putting me in a pseudo "frame positive" scenario

Frames are something that can be manipulated by the minds behind them, like a magician. There's no real magic happening, just misdirection and sleight of hand.

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Except for online, where mashing Aquamans d2, will fuck up A WONDER WOMAN FRAME TRAP. DAGDJDHESVSUSHDOEODGDIWBSIHRR

Players can't improve if they refuse to accept that they aren't that good to begin with.

I'm sorry but if someone mashes DP during your links/blockstrings or if someone random wake up super/ultra and beats you like this he outsmarted you. Nothing more nothing less. You got outplayed or possibly downloaded and you weren't able to adapt to a very basic pattern.

edit: lol I'm not talking about you specifically Khaotic, I mean "you" in general.

It comes from panic people don't know what to do in that situation and as they are learning it becomes a bad habit they never bother to get rid of. Believe me im mashing right now.

It's to punish your sloppy play, first of all you didn't punish then it is highly likely that you will be pushing buttons because you have the advantage which they can armor out of.

For example: kabal buzzsaw pointblank is punishable if you have a fast move and if not people will try to grab kabal after a blocked buzzaw. However people rarely punish it because it is hard to do so. People just settle with the ''free'' pressure and that is why they get blown up by the ex dash follow up. It's not even a scrubby thing really, the best of the best do it.

Same thing with street fighter, people mash uppcercut while they are being combo'd, just in case their opponent messes up.

A lot of those situations also have a lot to do with conditioning the opponent and based on reads. KDZ gave a good example of that.

I say it time and time again.

If you are at advantage, but they mash out of your pressure/ frame trap YOU ARE THE ONE AT FAULT.

You are not timing your next move correctly, and thus are losing the frames to lock me in.
That's your fault and I'm going to exploit you on it.

If you consistently trap me 9/10 or 10/10 times, I'm going to respect the shit out of you.

But if you're messing up more than 50% of the time, you bet I'm gonna mash and punish your mistiming of your "frame trap"

Same goes for me when someone blocks my Sindel Cartwheel for example . -7 but i still mash because nobody really pokes me back lol

You have no one to blame but yourself.

I'm sure if you rarely mess up your frame traps/advantages, you wouldn't be complaining.

#sorrynotsorry

But yeah it could also just be mashing, there are a 1000 reasons why people could be doing it

Mr. Mileena said:

I say it time and time again.

If you are at advantage, but they mash out of your pressure/ frame trap YOU ARE THE ONE AT FAULT.

You are not timing your next move correctly, and thus are losing the frames to lock me in.
That's your fault and I'm going to exploit you on it.

If you consistently trap me 9/10 or 10/10 times, I'm going to respect the shit out of you.

But if you're messing up more than 50% of the time, you bet I'm gonna mash and punish your mistiming of your "frame trap"

Same goes for me when someone blocks my Sindel Cartwheel for example . -7 but i still mash because nobody really pokes me back lol

You have no one to blame but yourself.

I'm sure if you rarely mess up your frame traps/advantages, you wouldn't be complaining.

#sorrynotsorry

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I think he means if you're already at a disadvantage like you do a string or special move (like mind control) you know is unsafe but mash afterwards anyway in hopes your opponent didn't punish properly.

EnergyKD said:

I think he means if you're already at a disadvantage like you do a string or special move (like mind control) you know is unsafe but mash afterwards anyway in hopes your opponent didn't punish properly.

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Same thing. I mean a move like that I wouldn't mash after. But moves like ex zatanna kicks or regular kicks I sometimes used to mash lol.

EnergyKD said:

I think he means if you're already at a disadvantage like you do a string or special move (like mind control) you know is unsafe but mash afterwards anyway in hopes your opponent didn't punish properly.

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Disadvantage != unsafe. You can be -5 and still be safe from punishes.

The theory is that since you are +5 you should have priority and they "should" respect it. But as Mr.Mileena pointed out, they don't have to respect you. You just assume they will no matter what but it doesn't work like that. You need to condition them, force them to respect your pressure. But if you don't use true blockstrings and/or if you keep leaving gaps in your strings or keep going for walk up/dash throw then you are giving them the information that you are overconfident in your ability to suppress them. So they would be stupid not to teach you a lesson and make you respect their options.

If it happens again and again, then it simply means you haven't learned your lesson and you deserve to lose.

And btw in the case where you really are unsafe on block (like -30 or whatever) then there is NO REASON not to mash lol. Because you're dead anyway. So you might as well try to mash in case they are 1 frame late / miss their punish. (well in SF at least, in Injustice it's probably better to just block since reversals have no invincibility)

It's a scrubbier form of parry baits in Third Strike, I guess

Joker8417 said:

Oh don't think I wouldn't do it offline.

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I definitely would. lmao