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Opinions on which characters are not top 8 viable in the current meta-game?

Spyridon

But then these players would have to play out of their comfort zone and how many people out there are willing to do that?
Pig of the Hut for example won a pretty stacked local with Sinestro, before Sinestro got his buffs and was considered as a bad character, because he had more problems with charging his trait and his Fear Blast wasn't even a mid. He has shown everyone that the character can do something.

I'm not the only one who thinks that tier lists at this point are way too early and it's all about logic. There was a guy who made a brilliant comment in the first tier list thread:

"Early Tier lists:

Broken tier = Characters I can't beat
Top tier = Characters I play
Low tier = Characters I never see being used"

And that's so right.
We're at a point, where the current meta-game only shows you easy-to-use-characters, which give you victories easier than the others. That doesn't mean that the "weaker" characters are bad. They're only harder to use and this early in the life-cycle of the game they have so much hidden, undiscovered potential.

I still think that this is a great topic, but I'm just throwing out thoughts.
I'm not qualified to say that Bane is good enough to get into the TOP 8, nor am I qualified to say that he isn't - but there is nothing that restricts me from saying that there MIGHT be some stuff we don't know yet and to discover that stuff we need dedicated players like RYX who invest time and thoughts into the characters.
And we're not going to get that from high level players, because they always use the strongest characters, which is totally fine in the end of the day.

But what that means is that the "unviable" characters are only not viable, because tournament players are not picking them up, because there are few specific, stronger and easier-to-use characters.
When other people finally unlock the potential of "low tiers" we will see quite some new stuff, even in tournaments I hope.
 

ceemurda

Tha BLakk ROBOCOP
Ares - worst dash in the game, slow walk speed, no range normals, slowest projectiles with most recovery, no anti-airs, horrible wake-up options, low-damage combos from practical starters, quasi-useless teleport, trait easily stuffed/nullified
You sir are totally clueless about this character and care not to explain why your wrong... Stop playing this game today

Sent from my SCH-R920 using Tapatalk 2
 

jonnzz

Noob
Spyridon

But then these players would have to play out of their comfort zone and how many people out there are willing to do that?
Pig of the Hut for example won a pretty stacked local with Sinestro, before Sinestro got his buffs and was considered as a bad character, because he had more problems with charging his trait and his Fear Blast wasn't even a mid. He has shown everyone that the character can do something.

I'm not the only one who thinks that tier lists at this point are way too early and it's all about logic. There was a guy who made a brilliant comment in the first tier list thread:

"Early Tier lists:

Broken tier = Characters I can't beat
Top tier = Characters I play
Low tier = Characters I never see being used"

And that's so right.
We're at a point, where the current meta-game only shows you easy-to-use-characters, which give you victories easier than the others. That doesn't mean that the "weaker" characters are bad. They're only harder to use and this early in the life-cycle of the game they have so much hidden, undiscovered potential.

I still think that this is a great topic, but I'm just throwing out thoughts.
I'm not qualified to say that Bane is good enough to get into the TOP 8, nor am I qualified to say that he isn't - but there is nothing that restricts me from saying that there MIGHT be some stuff we don't know yet and to discover that stuff we need dedicated players like RYX who invest time and thoughts into the characters.
And we're not going to get that from high level players, because they always use the strongest characters, which is totally fine in the end of the day.

But what that means is that the "unviable" characters are only not viable, because tournament players are not picking them up, because there are few specific, stronger and easier-to-use characters.
When other people finally unlock the potential of "low tiers" we will see quite some new stuff, even in tournaments I hope.

What's interesting is that most people play and experiment with characters considered strong, so these characters' potential might exhaust fast and their strength/weaknesses/tools stabilized.

My point is that once they stop evolving while the "unplayed" characters' untapped potential will start being exploited, IGAU might well be the most balanced game ever.

But this will be possible only if:

- players stop petitioning for buffs/nerfs and focus their energy on advancing their character.
- NRS stops patching the gameplay so that innovators do not fear that their breakthroughs become obsolete in the short to medium term.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
The thing with DD now is that you have to THINK before you act. Before they nerfed the invisible hit box on his body splash, it was just " jd3, trait, jd3, trait, jd3, trait. His body splash hit box properties were stupidly good. Things are different now. DD needs buffs, but not something big. For example his standing 2 should be faster imo, in order to improve his punish potential. He still can compete against the entire cast with ease if played correctly. If you mix up ES in your strings, DD is still very scary to deal against.

EDIT: Bane is fine right now.
 

jonnzz

Noob
The thing with DD now is that you have to THINK before you act. Before they nerfed the invisible hit box on his body splash, it was just " jd3, trait, jd3, trait, jd3, trait. His body splash hit box properties were stupidly good. Things are different now. DD needs buffs, but not something big. For example his standing 2 should be faster imo, in order to improve his punish potential. He still can compete against the entire cast with ease if played correctly. If you mix up ES in your strings, DD is still very scary to deal against.

EDIT: Bane is fine right now.

Does Doomsday really need his punish potential enhanced ?

I don't think he needs buffs because this particular character cannot be easily assessed by just looking at his tools and frame data. He can be Lois Lane tier or Doomsday tier depending on the player's skill and (maybe most importantly) guts.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Does Doomsday really need his punish potential enhanced ?

I don't think he needs buffs because this particular character cannot be easily assessed by just looking at his tools and frame data. He can be Lois Lane tier or Doomsday tier depending on the player's skill and (maybe most importantly) guts.
Agreed, but player skill and guts wont help a lot in this particular game tbh with you. IGAU is just too MU based unfortunately. Nothing like MK9. For example, you cannot expect to win with Joker against Superman in the highest lvl, in a tournament, unless the Sup player doesnt take the MU seriously which wont happen in tourneys ofc. Still though the game is young and so many things could change in the future (i hope so cause the game has a lot of potential).
 

Error

DF2+R2
You sir are totally clueless about this character and care not to explain why your wrong... Stop playing this game today

Sent from my SCH-R920 using Tapatalk 2
I read all of your posts in John Stewart from JLA's super condescending voice.
 

jonnzz

Noob
Agreed, but player skill and guts wont help a lot in this particular game tbh with you. IGAU is just too MU based unfortunately. Nothing like MK9. For example, you cannot expect to win with Joker against Superman in the highest lvl, in a tournament, unless the Sup player doesnt take the MU seriously which wont happen in tourneys ofc. Still though the game is young and so many things could change in the future (i hope so cause the game has a lot of potential).

Yes, the game is too young. So maybe everybody should stop petitioning for buffs/nerfs so that the metagame stabilizes a little bit. While everything keeps moving, balancing on one side unbalances other things.

Talking about Doomsday, i don't think he has any 7-3 or worse MUs so 6-4 can be overcome with momentum.
 

ceemurda

Tha BLakk ROBOCOP
I read all of your posts in John Stewart from JLA's super condescending voice.
I REALLY WISH that NRS will atleast do a john stewart skin and use the voice actor... I know they can do it... that why I like NRS as a company they listen and care about all the community.... I really how this Series gets huge
 

piemaster

mortal hater
harley will change in everyones opinion...... shes broke

dont forget that a month before mortal kombats first evo sonya was low tier.....

and who has a cartwheel.....;)
 

ceemurda

Tha BLakk ROBOCOP
What's interesting is that most people play and experiment with characters considered strong, so these characters' potential might exhaust fast and their strength/weaknesses/tools stabilized.

My point is that once they stop evolving while the "unplayed" characters' untapped potential will start being exploited, IGAU might well be the most balanced game ever.

But this will be possible only if:

- players stop petitioning for buffs/nerfs and focus their energy on advancing their character.
- NRS stops patching the gameplay so that innovators do not fear that their breakthroughs become obsolete in the short to medium term.

disagree with this.... the nerfs that have happened didnt kill any characters potential.. even the scorpion nerf in the future will not kill his potential as a character... all the nerfs were warranted due to the moves being or possibly being abusable .. no character was made unplayable even Ares reset potential wasnt killed from his b23 .. however people need to stop being so lazy and being an ex-umvc3 tourney player that had to play chris g, nerd josh, and xians morridoom teams at FR16, I can promise that everyone really wish capcom would patch that stupid shit in some kind of a way...

this week was a prime example of how lazy and destructive the IGUA community can be when everyone and they grandparents were playing scorpion and trolling teleports for easy wins much like day 1 deathstroke players which are complaining that they character is no good any more because they cant "zone" like that character doesnt have a great inside game...

idk why people are mad that NRS actually give a damn about they product..... if thats the case they should of left my main alone (cyborg player since day 1) so I could continue to keep you in guard stun from full screen... lol yeah right you have no idea how many rage quitters I had when I had people with that broken mess.. and people still RQ on me when I have them in the corner doing his 60%...

and they really need to do something for LOBO badly because that character doesnt have one great thing about him that worth maining him over any other character than just being loyal....

in short Im glad they care
 

xWEBSx

Too old for this Shit
disagree with this.... the nerfs that have happened didnt kill any characters potential.. even the scorpion nerf in the future will not kill his potential as a character... all the nerfs were warranted due to the moves being or possibly being abusable .. no character was made unplayable even Ares reset potential wasnt killed from his b23 .. however people need to stop being so lazy and being an ex-umvc3 tourney player that had to play chris g, nerd josh, and xians morridoom teams at FR16, I can promise that everyone really wish capcom would patch that stupid shit in some kind of a way...

this week was a prime example of how lazy and destructive the IGUA community can be when everyone and they grandparents were playing scorpion and trolling teleports for easy wins much like day 1 deathstroke players which are complaining that they character is no good any more because they cant "zone" like that character doesnt have a great inside game...

idk why people are mad that NRS actually give a damn about they product..... if thats the case they should of left my main alone (cyborg player since day 1) so I could continue to keep you in guard stun from full screen... lol yeah right you have no idea how many rage quitters I had when I had people with that broken mess.. and people still RQ on me when I have them in the corner doing his 60%...

and they really need to do something for LOBO badly because that character doesnt have one great thing about him that worth maining him over any other character than just being loyal....

in short Im glad they care
Look at what happens when anger gets put aside.. MASTERPIECE!!! And very true- so proud of you :)

The bad thing is.. All these knee jerk reactions to characters like DS and Scorpion are being spearheaded by well known, big name player(s) and they are doing more to hurt those characters than any good.. Very sad to see.. A la JWongs Sent from MvC3... People can't leave well enough alone..

As far as being lazy.... YESSSSSSSSS..why switch characters if you are wiping the floor with Supes Or BA? Why the same top characters top the same results each and every tournament..
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Honest question: what holds him back from being top 8?
Almost everything. Lopsided 2-8 MUs. Snail walk speed. Ridiculously punishable dash. Slow start up on specials yet needs them to play his set ups. Slow mo jump. Cracks under rushdown. Cracks under zoning. Very punishable. High risk/low reward char, especially in comparison to the top 15. Bald.
 

Pakman

Lawless Victory!
Almost everything. Lopsided 2-8 MUs. Snail walk speed. Ridiculously punishable dash. Slow start up on specials yet needs them to play his set ups. Slow mo jump. Cracks under rushdown. Cracks under zoning. Very punishable. High risk/low reward char, especially in comparison to the top 15. Bald.
I see.

Now the tricky follow up question: would fixing those issues break him or make him? ;)
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
it was BROKEN when he jumped at you from sweep distance. Have fun defending against an invisible crossup that is literally impossible to determine whether it'll happen or not.

This. It was, pretty much an unblockable jump in. Fucked up shit right there.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
I see.

Now the tricky follow up question: would fixing those issues break him or make him? ;)
I don't think they need to fully revamp him. Just some buffs. Maybe better walk speed or faster dash. Fast start up on his specials since his playstyle is based upon them. Safer move set. Not all of those but at least some of it. As of right now he'll be stuck at the bottom unless some ground breaking tech is found.
 

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
Spyridon

But then these players would have to play out of their comfort zone and how many people out there are willing to do that?
Pig of the Hut for example won a pretty stacked local with Sinestro, before Sinestro got his buffs and was considered as a bad character, because he had more problems with charging his trait and his Fear Blast wasn't even a mid. He has shown everyone that the character can do something.

I'm not the only one who thinks that tier lists at this point are way too early and it's all about logic. There was a guy who made a brilliant comment in the first tier list thread:

"Early Tier lists:

Broken tier = Characters I can't beat
Top tier = Characters I play
Low tier = Characters I never see being used"

And that's so right.
We're at a point, where the current meta-game only shows you easy-to-use-characters, which give you victories easier than the others. That doesn't mean that the "weaker" characters are bad. They're only harder to use and this early in the life-cycle of the game they have so much hidden, undiscovered potential.

I still think that this is a great topic, but I'm just throwing out thoughts.
I'm not qualified to say that Bane is good enough to get into the TOP 8, nor am I qualified to say that he isn't - but there is nothing that restricts me from saying that there MIGHT be some stuff we don't know yet and to discover that stuff we need dedicated players like RYX who invest time and thoughts into the characters.
And we're not going to get that from high level players, because they always use the strongest characters, which is totally fine in the end of the day.

But what that means is that the "unviable" characters are only not viable, because tournament players are not picking them up, because there are few specific, stronger and easier-to-use characters.
When other people finally unlock the potential of "low tiers" we will see quite some new stuff, even in tournaments I hope.

Sinestro's FB has NEVER been mid on most of the cast. Anyways, a player can place well with a character regardless of their tier position. Also keep in mind that at the beginning of MK's life Ermac was placing high. Take a look at where that character stands now...
 

JLU51306

Bzzzt *Paging Doctor Fate*
Sinestro's FB has NEVER been mid on most of the cast. Anyways, a player can place well with a character regardless of their tier position. Also keep in mind that at the beginning of MK's life Ermac was placing high. Take a look at where that character stands now...

Poor Ermac :(
 

Saboteur-6

Filthy Casual
harley will change in everyones opinion...... shes broke

dont forget that a month before mortal kombats first evo sonya was low tier.....

and who has a cartwheel.....;)
Broke? If you mean her broken trait then I could see that. Also Harley's cartwheel hits mid so the comparison to Sonya is pretty weak.
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
Honest question: what holds him back from being top 8?
Similar to what Saltshaker said. He's very weak to zoning and has no quick/and or safe offense without his trait or a trap set up.

I'd like to see some minor buffs, like slightly faster startup on probe or a command cancel with the lance.