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Question How to not be a reactive player?

Evil Canadian

G O K U
Premium Supporter
Being turtle/reactive/lame style player is nothing wrong, however you need to play characters that suit that playstyle. I have been that way all my life which is why when MKX hit I immediately went to Kotal because his footsies and ability to control/check peoples buttons with ex sword, whiff punish people with f1/b1/f2, and all the like are exactly my style.

If I went and applied that style to say, Quan, then I wouldn't be getting too far.
 

XxDark_

Noob
Strictly character strength no definitely not. It's on my part for sure. I'm still trying to get my footing with a character and I'm just now beginning to figure out what and why certain things work against me so well. My friend plays Boneshaper, granted he's not very good, but I literally cannot get in on him, and if I don't he just uses the projectiles on me all game. It forces me to play HIS game rather than me making him play into my hands. I've always been forced into positions like this and for all my life that I've spent playing video games, I can't beat the enemy into my playing my game.
lol everyone is good with shinnok regardless of skill level....lol but sometimes its about the match up. some characters will have a harder time getting in on a good zoner because they only have one way of getting in so It becomes predictable what you are likely to try. unlike if you had a teleport character.. we will use scorpion for example...you can use his teleport to get in. so you have access to another way.
 
Strictly character strength no definitely not. It's on my part for sure. I'm still trying to get my footing with a character and I'm just now beginning to figure out what and why certain things work against me so well. My friend plays Boneshaper, granted he's not very good, but I literally cannot get in on him, and if I don't he just uses the projectiles on me all game. It forces me to play HIS game rather than me making him play into my hands. I've always been forced into positions like this and for all my life that I've spent playing video games, I can't beat the enemy into my playing my game.
Well technically, once you gain a life lead they HAVE to play your game. At least until they take it back. Countering zoning is a different concept to simply being a turtle style player. And Shinnok zoning is pretty strong, so your nature won't change that, lol. That's just a case of figuring out your opponent's patterns and getting comfortable with the neutral game.
 
Hello there. I'm trying to become a more competitive player in games as a whole and one thing I've struggled with all my life is having a reactive play style, kinda like a sit and wait type of approach.
Hello @akaidon . I appreciate you taking the time to make this post. I was actually studying linear algebra, but had the urge to respond to this post so I guess I'll take a break. First I want to say I don't own mkx, but I still would like to give my thoughts on this.

First off, if you are trying to become a competitive player you need to have a reactionary play style. There's nothing wrong with turtling and attempting to react to your opponents style of play, making adjustments on the fly. It's what a lot of top players commonly do. In fact, most generic online players DON'T play like this. They usually have one style of play, refuse to adapt, and once that lock is cracked open they get blow up especially in the offline scene.

Find the play style that fits you and perfect it. That's what I feel.

(I) usually sit and turtle, often losing to a good zoner or someone who really knows how to press offense, and forces me to react to their tactics. I lose control of games rather easily in my opinion be it MKX, Counter Strike, or any competitive game for that matter. In fighting games I seriously lack oki, and I crack under pressure of a very strong offensive push. I try to poke in the neutral as much as I can to create space and to stop an offensive push, but usually I just end up with my opponent running circles around me.
Like I said I don't own the game but I do watch it a lot competitively. I will say MKX has a strong Oki game, so it's a part of your game to know how gain potential damage after scoring a knockdown (universal in almost any fighting game you play). Cracking under pressure is fine, you just need to practice these situations whether in practice mode, or training with someone.

Also poking (usually called a check) in neutral is a good strategy to control space. If you play a turtle style, you want to use checks to at least have an opponent respect your space so they won't run all over you. A good example of a player who uses checks quite well in neutral is @HoneyBee . He's a master at it in my opinion. It's very easy to close space in mix, so utilizing a check isn't a bad strategy.

Be aware of your spacing though as well. If you miss a check, or they jump over it, that will give your opponent a chance to pressure depending on how much recovery your check/poke is.

In MKX I still haven't found my main yet, but I'm most experienced with Summoner Quan'Chi. I do not plan on sticking with Quan though.

What am I supposed to do to become more proactive and actually get consistent offensive pressure on my opponents and not get overwhelmed by strong offensive pushes?
Before I give you list of things you should be aware of, know this. Online is NOT for a reactionary play style. A reactionary play style works best in an offline setting because there is no lag factor/delay involved (unless using a terrible monitor). If your playing online, this is probably why it would discourage you to change your play style, but should not be a reason to. I can't stress how important it is to play offline if given the chance. There are so many things you can react and punish offline that is near impossible online...this is coming from an casual injustice player.

Lists of things you should work on:
-Spacing (staying outside jump in range/opponents attack range)
-Movement (knowing how to utilize walk speed, and walk forward in order to space correctly)
-Anti-air (although difficult, you should still test in practice mode what range you can react and anti-air from)
-TRIP GUARD (can't stress this enough. If your opponent whiffs a jump in attack on you they have to recover for a few frames. At times you can even get a full combo punish if spaced correctly (or at the very least free pressure). It's one of the few tactics you don't seen done enough)
-Punishment (you should know every punishable move in the game, from what range is it not punishable, and the max most consistent damage you can get from the punish with meter or without it).
-Tendencies (being able to identify tendencies, but also adapting to them also)

Hope it helps. Back to studying for me lol
 
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DOOMSDAY-15RUS-

i'LL DESTROY YOU ALL
know perfectly opponent mix ups, their frame data to know what is punisheble what isn't and have a good read but it comes most with practice
 
I have the same issue, to an extent. I will give you the advice I was given by my friends.

(This is gonna be a long post, sorry in advance)

The major one was "lessen your plate". The less you have to worry about, the more you can focus on the 1 or 2 things your character has and then find out how to use those options in multiple scenarios. For instance, I used to play Ermac, however Ermac has a lot of strings and moves he can use during a match, F21D2, 222, B12, F4, B3, etc. Not having really good fundamentals, I struggled to play him (sans execution). I'd focus too much on one string (F21D2) cause it gave me a free combo into reset. In doing so, I abandoned a F4/B3 into teleport, into a combo, or a 222 punish into EX lift. I was so adamant about landing that reset that I didn't know Ermac had meterless 40% combos until 3 weeks ago, or so.

So my friends suggested I lessen my plate (lessen the amount of things I have to worry about). So they directed me to BS Shinnok (pre-patch). I just had to worry about his F41D2 string into EX Hellsparks, into restand and then end with Dark Beam, occasionally using B3 when they respected the low. Although he was considered the best character at the time, I still lost, my friends are much better players than me, but I saw a huge improvement. So that's a big one, at least to start, find a character that doesn't have 1 million options, find one that has maybe max 3, and then work your gameplan around that.

Now to find that character, my friends also came up with a sort of self checklist:

High risk/reward, or low?

Up-close, or far away?

Damage, or safety?

Options, or specialization?

Executional demand, or ease of use?

High ratio of meter gain-to-need, or low?

And this is just for starters. You can add more prerequisites to this list if the need arises. You'd have to look up to see which characters fit those options, or I'm pretty sure some people can post on this thread if you have any questions.

Hopefully this helps. :D
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
SZ is cool but I can't find any current bnbs, I also have no clue what happened to him in the last patch for GM
The last patch only allowed Ex Clone to work more consistently. He's basically the same.

My bnb:

B12 freeze, empty clone, Jip1 242 RC 123 slide

alternatively: B12 freeze, empty clone, Jip1 242 RC 1 RC F42 slide

Reset:

B12 freeze, empty clone, Jip1 B12 then go overhead or low

B12 freeze can be substituted with:

11 freeze, B33 ex freeze, F33 ex freeze, F42 ex freeze, 12 ex freeze.
 
...It forces me to play HIS game rather than me making him play into my hands.
SZ's Ice Klone works wonders for this and I'm pretty sure GM was untouched last patch except for a fix on the klone. Check the SZ forums for some of the BnBs.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned a "get off me" move yet. Quan has a hard time getting out of pressure and it sounds like your having problems getting locked down by your opponent's aggression. I suggest looking at characters (SZ is one) that have an armored move that will launch the opponent so you can get a combo in. From there you can continue with your offense or back off to neutral.
 

JerzeyReign

PSN: JerzeyReign
Lists of things you should work on:
-Spacing (staying outside jump in range/opponents attack range)
-Movement (knowing how to utilize walk speed, and walk forward in order to space correctly)
-Anti-air (although difficult, you should still test in practice mode what range you can react and anti-air from)
-TRIP GUARD (can't stress this enough. If your opponent whiffs a jump in attack on you they have to recover for a few frames. At times you can even get a full combo punish if spaced correctly (or at the very least free pressure). It's one of the few tactics you don't seen done enough)
-Punishment (you should know every punishable move in the game, from what range is it not punishable, and the max most consistent damage you can get from the punish with meter or without it).
-Tendencies (being able to identify tendencies, but also adapting to them also)

Hope it helps. Back to studying for me lol
OP, I mean this with all seriousness, if you don't read and remember anything else in this thread, remember what I just quoted. I was in your position a month or so ago (slowly making my way out of that) and Protagonist posted something similar in a thread I made. His tips helped me a lot. I still go into every thread he makes because I know it has some good info in there.

I went to a gaming bar last week and played some MKX. Something as little as walking towards my opponent had them panicking. Now it doesn't work as well as that when I go to Austin because they don't get as nervous but I do force a reaction. I just have to learn how to recognize the reaction and counter it. Nonetheless, it works.

Good luck on your grind tho boss!
 

akaidon

Noob
OP, I mean this with all seriousness, if you don't read and remember anything else in this thread, remember what I just quoted. I was in your position a month or so ago (slowly making my way out of that) and Protagonist posted something similar in a thread I made. His tips helped me a lot. I still go into every thread he makes because I know it has some good info in there.

I went to a gaming bar last week and played some MKX. Something as little as walking towards my opponent had them panicking. Now it doesn't work as well as that when I go to Austin because they don't get as nervous but I do force a reaction. I just have to learn how to recognize the reaction and counter it. Nonetheless, it works.

Good luck on your grind tho boss!
Controlling space or forcing your opponent into uncomfortable positions is always key. That's my problem. I can't ever get to that point because I'm the one being pressured. I don't panic or anything, I just have trouble with pushing back. Thanks though and it's solid advice for sure
 
man hours bro just keep playing win or lose you improve natural then maybe learn info on fame date so u know your best pokes strings ect
 

Sage Leviathan

I'm platinum mad!
@akaidon
I don't understand. What's wrong with being a reactive player? That's an amazing quality to have.

Understand space and time.
Some things to think about:
-what is the optimal range for my opponents attacks?
-is there a space where my opponent can attack me, but I cannot attack them? And the reverse?
-where should I be to gain the advantage?
-where should I be to maintain the advantage?
-where should I be with regards to my opponent's abilities and tendencies?

-when should I attack?
-at what time should I give up defense for offense?
-when should I leave my position, and for which direction?
etc.

You will at first play like yourself, with your own behavioral patterns. Then through adaptation you will play more and more like your anti-opponent.

You see it all the time in long sets between players. Sometimes you'll tap your forehead and go "will this work?" and eureka, it does. Against anyone else you might be hard-pressed to ask yourself "why would anyone ever do that? It makes no sense." But if it nets you a win, then that's proof you've learned something.
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
I would have to strongly agree with the people saying OWN your style, it's who you are. That being said, you are possibly playing the worst character in the game to play that style with.

I'd recommend finding a character who can play more to your style. Reactive doesn't always mean defensive I notice a lot of people have that confused, Tempest Lao is an amazing aggressive reactionary character and Sub-Zero is a more defensive reactionary character. It's all up to you, I'd watch DJT play (any character) as this is truly his playstyle and he's taken it very far.
 

akaidon

Noob
@akaidon
I don't understand. What's wrong with being a reactive player? That's an amazing quality to have.

Understand space and time.
Some things to think about:
-what is the optimal range for my opponents attacks?
-is there a space where my opponent can attack me, but I cannot attack them? And the reverse?
-where should I be to gain the advantage?
-where should I be to maintain the advantage?
-where should I be with regards to my opponent's abilities and tendencies?

-when should I attack?
-at what time should I give up defense for offense?
-when should I leave my position, and for which direction?
etc.

You will at first play like yourself, with your own behavioral patterns. Then through adaptation you will play more and more like your anti-opponent.

You see it all the time in long sets between players. Sometimes you'll tap your forehead and go "will this work?" and eureka, it does. Against anyone else you might be hard-pressed to ask yourself "why would anyone ever do that? It makes no sense." But if it nets you a win, then that's proof you've learned something.
Because playing proactively means you're the one who controls the overall pace of the match. The opponent must be forced to react to you and not vice versa. If you play strictly reactively you're going to suffer from things that you can't react to. That's why I want to incorporate a more proactive approach to my play style. Currently I'm turtling and when I'm against a character with some nice 50/50s I start to have some problems.
 

gam224

The world's least hype player
That is just something you have to be able to deal with as quan. You can always counter pick someone with a good armored launcher like balanced kenshi.
 

akaidon

Noob
That is just something you have to be able to deal with as quan. You can always counter pick someone with a good armored launcher like balanced kenshi.
Kenshi is literally the only way I can beat my friend's BS Shinnok. I'm thinking about giving Hish-Qu-Ten a go against it since the plasma cannon is pretty awkward to deal with
 

gam224

The world's least hype player
Kenshi is literally the only way I can beat my friend's BS Shinnok. I'm thinking about giving Hish-Qu-Ten a go against it since the plasma cannon is pretty awkward to deal with
That's a good idea I honestly believe quan is the akuma of this game. You really need to play on point with him to win so it would be a good idea to play predator at least to warm up
 

akaidon

Noob
That's a good idea I honestly believe quan is the akuma of this game. You really need to play on point with him to win so it would be a good idea to play predator at least to warm up
Is Hunter worth using defensively or would I be missing out on too much pressure from the trap set ups and stuff? I know HQT zoning is pretty great but I'm not sure how much I'd be gimping myself by using hunter defensively opposed to HQT
 

gam224

The world's least hype player
Is Hunter worth using defensively or would I be missing out on too much pressure from the trap set ups and stuff? I know HQT zoning is pretty great but I'm not sure how much I'd be gimping myself by using hunter defensively opposed to HQT
Hunter is rush down. If you are going to play defensively just play HQT. You should have at least one rush down character in your arsenal though.