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Question What defines a 10-0 MU?

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StealthyMuffin

Earth's Mightiest Knucklehead
To my understanding, a 10-0 means that it is literally impossible for "x" to beat "y". Has a true 10-0 ever existed in any fighting game? Is player skill taken into account? Please post any 10-0s that you're aware of and, if possible, explain why it is a truely unwinnable fight. Feel free to include other non-NRS fighters. I would love to see footage of a 10-0, but I have to know what those MUs are first.
 
11411181

11411181

Noob
10-0 likely exists as an impossibility - the literal definition of such would be a matchup in which by an application of a single dominant tactic by one character, the other cannot escape or counter.

Dhalsim vs Hakan at one point was often touted as an 8-2 or a 9-1 on the assumption of a certain skill level by the Hakan. Sample below:
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Tekken 4 Jin vs Kuma would make Zod vs Lex appear advantageous for Lex. Nothing in Kuma's pathetic toolset would ever stop JFLS 60% combos, God oki on his gigantic hitbox, and the wall of death. 10-0 unwinnable if the Jin player had a brain. Kuma couldn't even push buttons or move around without risk of death.

Shining example here if players of equal skill play at a semi high level and up, it would be impossible for the other player to win.
 
DelSchokoladenSaft

DelSchokoladenSaft

Can of Corn Main
Sorry, but can I answer part of your question? Since there's over 13,000 matchups in this game, it'll be hard to say which matchup becomes 10-0. Listen, I'm not an authority on this, so I'm glad it's philosophy.
MU's for the average player conotates a guiding hand in the fight. For those who place in CEO and whatnot, it's the opposite. It means that it is " " possible to win. If both players are equal in skill, the MU's decide the victor.
The only way I can see a 10-0 happening is if all of x's moves are faster, stronger, and farther reaching than y's moves, That's my take on it at least.
 
Tom Brady

Tom Brady

Noob
A 10-0 is actually a 9-1 because a 10-0 basically means 100-0 and there is NO WAY to say at the highest level that it is impossible for one to win a single match, hence 9-1. The next worse are 8-2 and 7-3 which are also basically the same in meaning that the chance of winning are improbable but not impossible. MK9 had a few 9-1's such as Kenshi vs SZ Actually, Kenshi vs Jade was probably a 9-1 as well.
 
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Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
What was Lex vs Zod? 2-8? I think that was the worst MU in IGAU.

I feel like a 10-0 is impossible in balanced, modern fighter.



edit: @kappie.wp just beating me out with the most notorious bad MU in IGAU. LOL
 
Eric The Scruffy

Eric The Scruffy

Noob
Tom Brady said it already, but 10-0 is pretty much something you'll never see. 10-0 would mean there was some kind of programming error that meant even if the player at advantage was to put their controller down and do absolutely *nothing*, they would still win the match. EX. Their character has so much HP that the other character cannot ever do enough damage within the alotted time to defeat them...or something like that.
Again, these kind of matchups in practice pretty much never happen, and are almost purely theoretical.

9-1 is the closest you'll see, but understand how bad something has to be to really get that far. 9-1 basically means at the start of the round the advantage player begins something like an unblockable infinite that is completely inescapable. Zod x Lex was arguably 9-1, but one could argue even that wasn't 9-1 since Lex basically gets one read at the start of the match to do something before he's locked out forever. I still call it 9-1 personally, but thats just me.
 
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SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Tom Brady said:
A 10-0 is actually a 9-1 because a 10-0 basically means 100-0 and there is NO WAY to say at the highest level that it is impossible for one to win a single match, hence 9-1. The next worse are 8-2 and 7-3 which are also basically the same in meaning that the chance of winning are improbable but not impossible. MK9 had a few 9-1's such as Kenshi vs SZ Actually, Kenshi vs Jade was probably a 9-1 as well.
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Disagree.

When you're speaking of high level play, that means the person with the dominant character is using him at a high level. Per my example, there is "no way" anyone ever born was going to beat a high level Tekken 4 Jin player with Kuma. As in ever. As in impossible no matter what they do. The tool disparity was just too massive. Kuma couldn't move without being caught with unblockable combos or frame trapped. He couldn't get up without being hit due to his enlarged hurtbox. He couldn't get off the wall without death.

This is the definition of 10-0. The only way the Kuma player could possibly win 1 out of 100 games, let alone 10, is if the Jin player was vastly inferior in skill or distracted off his game somehow, which does not factor in when giving a number.

Two players of equal high skill and this MU is 100-0 straight. There are other MU's in other games like this, but this one is just blatantly obvious.
 
ArmedCalf

ArmedCalf

I guess I play Necromancer now.. PSN: ArmedCalf
I think Zod vs Lex was like 8-2, solely on the fact that if Lex ever got Zod in the corner it would be a fiasco
 
Pan1cMode

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
gangsterthor said:
SSBB - Metaknight comes to mind.
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ICs vs. Ganondorf in SSBB.

He literally couldn't touch them. Desynched blizzard wall was impenetrable.

Tom Brady said:
A 10-0 is actually a 9-1 because a 10-0 basically means 100-0 and there is NO WAY to say at the highest level that it is impossible for one to win a single match, hence 9-1. The next worse are 8-2 and 7-3 which are also basically the same in meaning that the chance of winning are improbable but not impossible. MK9 had a few 9-1's such as Kenshi vs SZ Actually, Kenshi vs Jade was probably a 9-1 as well.
Click to expand...
Aren't MUs meant to be at the highest level? Say for instance if you take smash as a fighting game (and a lot of people do) there is no way for Ganondorf to touch Ice Climbers in SSBB. They can literally create an impenetrable wall which Ganondorf cannot get through. To touch them. If the ICs don't stuff up blizzards (and they're not that hard tbh) they win the game by default since there is nothing the Ganondorf player can do.

This is a 10-0 MU.
 
Prinz

Prinz

watch?v=a8PEVV6tt14
Derptile said:
For a 10-0 to exist you would need to have a character that fundamentally breaks the game.

The best example I can think of would be Ivan Ooze
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Not necessarily. 10-0 can occure when one character shuts down the other's gamplay style or options completely. Example is Kenshi vs Jade in MK9.
Also Ivan Ooze is m2dave's wet dream.
 
Derptile

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
Prinz said:
Not necessarily. 10-0 can occure when one character shuts down the other's gamplay style or options completely. Example is Kenshi vs Jade in MK9.
Also Ivan Ooze is m2dave's wet dream.
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10-0 means 100-0 which also means 1000-0, which is impossible if you have any sense of balance in your game.

The worst MU in any NRS game was probably a perfect Zod doing IAFBs vs Lex, your movement became nonexistent, I can see that being a true 9-1. MK9 Kenshi vs Jade or SZ was a terrible MU but still was around 8-2.
 
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