EndofGameBoss
That's about right.
I'm fine with being zoned, but it's a tricky balance with instant air projectiles. Give characters the tools to get around it and we're fine, or add a little more recovery.
"At this stage" doesn't matter, because my point was that this is something that flies under the radar at release, because it takes time for a larger amount of players to be able to do it, and for the problem to become relevant.Honestly, at this stage, a fair amount of players are capable of doing them consistently. This isn't 2011 anymore lol.
Nobody likes Zoners. Dave is the only one that takes it personally.I'm noticing a lot of hostilities between Zoaners and Rushers is that a normal FGC thing or is that just Dave?
Id rather have it not be execution heavy!YES. OF COURSE INSTANT AIR PROJECTILES SHOULD BE IN THE GAME
I wont play unless there is an OP character with execution heavy projectiles/zoning
You created a thread questioning whether instant aerial fireballs should ever be present in any future NRS fighting game. Yet you expect me to believe that you are "undecided"?The reason for this thread is that instant air horizontal projectiles seem to be unique to NRS games (as far as I'm aware) and I'm curious to see how people feel about them as I am even undecided on them.
Yes exactly. I am asking the question. I am not declaring that they shouldn't be, I am asking for other people's opinions. I can see why this is a difficult concept for you to grasp though as you only talk in dictatorship style sentences and believe that everyone is beneath you, so it's not hard to imagine that you can't fathom why someone would be interested in others' opinions.You created a thread questioning whether instant aerial fireballs should ever be present in any future NRS fighting game. Yet you expect me to believe that you are "undecided"?
Stop being a fool and admit you are scrub who refuses to learn how to get around aerial projectiles.
In my opinion, the community should be thanking Paolo for designing Zod's instant aerial Zod balls, MB low laser, and trait. I know I did in Las Vegas. He created one of the most original zoning characters in fighting game history.
They aren't the hardest thing the in the world, and I even see the value of having execution heavy characters in the cast for those who like it. I just question the wisdom of also making the alternative almost flat out inferior(wasted design space) and making such a character so dominating. I mean ideally you don't want a kabal tier period, or such lousy matchups, but it doesn't help when that character is also obnoxious for the community to pick up.Honestly, at this stage, a fair amount of players are capable of doing them consistently. This isn't 2011 anymore lol.
IMO, execution-heavy characters aren't really a good thing, because if they end up outside of top tier, then you'll have a character who requires a lot of practice time just to be able to do their basic stuff fluently...which is pointless when other characters don't require that.They aren't the hardest thing the in the world, and I even see the value of having execution heavy characters in the cast for those who like it. I just question the wisdom of also making the alternative almost flat out inferior(wasted design space) and making such a character so dominating. I mean ideally you don't want a kabal tier period, or such lousy matchups, but it doesn't help when that character is also obnoxious for the community to pick up.
If you make an execution monster, fine, just be aware of what they're capable of when put in the right hands so you don't wind up with stuff like this, and I really just hate "inferior" moves personally.
I agree, although I think you can hit a sweet spot. It's just rare. If the tiers are compressed enough to not feel too awful it doesn't hurt to have a complex character in mid or bottom of top. GG does a decent job(but then again the list of non complex gg characters is pretty damn short). I think it helps though that even if you're low tier in GG, you still do batshit crazy stuff, whereas low tier in most other games means you struggle to do the basics.IMO, execution-heavy characters aren't really a good thing, because if they end up outside of top tier, then you'll have a character who requires a lot of practice time just to be able to do their basic stuff fluently...which is pointless when other characters don't require that.
On the flip side, that basically means they better be the best or arguably the best...or at least close to that. I don't even hate execution-heavy characters, but this is a huge problem with them, and it just leads to a character that you cannot properly balance.
I love you. *obligatory no homo disclaimer*I don't buy into the HIGH EXECUTION IS SACRED garbage. I really believe that all characters in all fighting games should have SoulCalibur-easy BnBs. You add depth in trickier stuff like position-sensitive/counterhit stuff, or godforfuckinbid the depth of a game be based around knowledge of spacing, situational awareness, mind games and thoughtful reads. IDGAF if you can pull off a one-frame link... seems wholly unnecessary given everything a fighting game can be. I see it mostly as a needless barrier. And this is from a guy that cut his teeth on Guilty Gear.
I'm basically on the same page, but I feel obligated to point out that SC does have Yoshi, Apat, voldo, tira angry angry orb girl, and a number of other "high execution" characters(depending on how you look at it). My point being that completely eliminating execution heavy characters seems pointless as there's plenty of people who do like that stuff. It just shouldn't be the status quo, and no one should ever think "they're difficult, so it's ok if they're op".I don't buy into the HIGH EXECUTION IS SACRED garbage. I really believe that all characters in all fighting games should have SoulCalibur-easy BnBs. You add depth in trickier stuff like position-sensitive/counterhit stuff, or godforfuckinbid the depth of a game be based around knowledge of spacing, situational awareness, mind games and thoughtful reads. IDGAF if you can pull off a one-frame link... seems wholly unnecessary given everything a fighting game can be. I see it mostly as a needless barrier. And this is from a guy that cut his teeth on Guilty Gear. For me, MKX will be a numbers game. Accessibility = more players = more hilarious hate mail. Love me some dial-a-combos.
As far as IAFBs go, my only worry is that there will be a character I like that ends up reliant on them. I'm totally down with zoning characters but I don't enjoy the method myself. Some people seem to like it but it's just too repetitive for me. I prefer to zone with fear.
NRS guys know about building character around 1 powerful move and how it may end up making character have 8-2 MUs against some characters and 2-8 against others, simply depending on whether that another character has "get in for free" move or not.I agree with over the top execution is unnecessary. Kabal was probably top 3 hardest execution wise in MK9 and with practise even I could use him competently. He wasn't ridiculous with execution but was hard enough that you felt like you accomplished learning something, just my opinion don't flame me! Also I am a fan of IAZoning moves and I enjoy to an extent the challenge of getting around them. As someone above said its when a character is built around that one move is where things start to suck, as much as we all hate kabal look how much more fun he was to use vs cyborg, this is because in my opinion I don't think NRS knew how good people would get with IAGB so they gave him a bunch of other tools too. On the other hand cyborg was built around that one move and lacks a few tools to make him a good character. Just my take on it
I would say the lack of the knockdown from the buzzsaw, the gas blast > nomad dash into reset from airborne hits and the fact that gas balls have a bigger hurtbox.Why aren't liu Kang's a problem?
So the problem isn't just the projectile it's just the moveset with it?I would say the lack of the knockdown from the buzzsaw and the fact that gas balls have a bigger hurtbox.
Now you guys make it seem like Kabal's issue was his zoning which is not true at all. Iagb were mostly just annoying. It's a bigger issue in Injustice because movement is very limited, and you have to be very smart about where are you going. If you fuck up once you're back to square one.
MKX's movement looks very good, plus there's a run button.
I say: "it's whatever".
Yeah, Kuhbawls issue is that he can gain meter incredibly fast, get massive amounts of chip on you, then armor through everything you throw at him. Of course there's lot more stuff like the ability to standing reset you into more pressure and hitbox issues but the guy saying IAGB caused MUs to be 8-2 is being silly pie.So the problem isn't just the projectile it's just the moveset with it?