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Most accurate mu and tier chart EVER

FOREVER EL1TE

FOREVER EL1TE

Noob
@DreadKnight1

Shazam. 6-4
Green Lantern, 4-6
Joker, 6-4
Harley Quinn, 5-5.
Grundy,7-3
Lex Luther,6-4.
Cat woman,5-5
Deathstroke, 5-5
Ares,6-4
Killer Frost, 4-6
Doomsday. 5-5
Sinestro 4-6,
Black Adam, 4-6.
Bane, 5-5
Batgurl, 5-5,
Zod,4-6?
Zatanna, 5-5
Lobo, 5-5
MMH,5-5
Flash,5-5
Batman, 5-5
Cyborg,4-6:
Green Arrow,6-4
Superman, 4-6.
Raven,4-6
Aquaman,5-5
WonderWoman,5-5
Hawkgirl. 4-6
 
Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
I need to be convinced that Raven beats Green Arrow 7-3. I've only played Ray Riazy offline and while hard at first it seems even to me now.
 
DreadKnight1

DreadKnight1

Beaten, by this mere man
FOREVER EL1TE said:
@DreadKnight1

Shazam. 6-4
Green Lantern, 4-6
Joker, 6-4
Harley Quinn, 5-5.
Grundy,7-3
Lex Luther,6-4.
Cat woman,5-5
Deathstroke, 5-5
Ares,6-4
Killer Frost, 4-6
Doomsday. 5-5
Sinestro 4-6,
Black Adam, 4-6.
Bane, 5-5
Batgurl, 5-5,
Zod,4-6?
Zatanna, 5-5
Lobo, 5-5
MMH,5-5
Flash,5-5
Batman, 5-5
Cyborg,4-6:
Green Arrow,6-4
Superman, 4-6.
Raven,4-6
Aquaman,5-5
WonderWoman,5-5
Hawkgirl. 4-6
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@Dja_Homies @HeroesNZ you two are some of the most annoying dicks I've ever played, tell me what does and doesn't make sense here please.
 
E

Eldriken

Guest
Erm. What tier lists did you look at for Doomsday for it to average out that he loses against MMH?

Other than that, I agree with the majority of the numbers.
 
Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Blind_Man said:
This match up is 7-3 Raven. It's bad. Arrow does no damage, can't zone, struggles to open raven up, and gets zoned out for free all day.
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I don't think arrow should zone at all in this match up. One blocked soul crush is a free dash with helps a lot getting in. He can open her up pretty well with ice arrow if made ambiguous with f2d1 low and overhead arrow. Her wake up game seems pretty bad so he has a good shot keeping the pressure after a knock down. I normally just try to back her to the corner and keep her there. I think she has a hard time in the corner vs arrow because of her poor wake up ability. I could be totally wrong as I only have real experience vs one player but I think 7-3 is a little harsh.
 
Blind_Ducky

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
Scoot Magee said:
I don't think arrow should zone at all in this match up. One blocked soul crush is a free dash with helps a lot getting in. He can open her up pretty well with ice arrow if made ambiguous with f2d1 low and overhead arrow. Her wake up game seems pretty bad so he has a good shot keeping the pressure after a knock down. I normally just try to back her to the corner and keep her there. I think she has a hard time in the corner vs arrow because of her poor wake up ability. I could be totally wrong as I only have real experience vs one player but I think 7-3 is a little harsh.
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Arrow CAN' T zone in this match up. You don't get the option to do that. That's every match up, it doesn't mean a lot unless the Raven player just throws out crush like an idiot. F2d1 ~ stuff is a garbage mix up and pretty much isn't a mix up. I can block it 95% of the time and even if it hits you do no damage. One trait cycle from me does almost as much as one combo from you in CHIP DAMAGE. There's no pressure from arrow on knockdown because you have no mix ups. You can't back her to the corner. That doesn't happen. You are totally wrong. If you had said you played glass sword a lot and think it's 5-5 I'd be listening but Ray riazy isn't good Raven experience. @WoundCowboy is both the best in the world at the Raven mu AND he knows all my personal tendencies and he can't get a life bar on me with arrow. This match up is atrocious.
 
Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Blind_Man said:
Arrow CAN' T zone in this match up. You don't get the option to do that. That's every match up, it doesn't mean a lot unless the Raven player just throws out crush like an idiot. F2d1 ~ stuff is a garbage mix up and pretty much isn't a mix up. I can block it 95% of the time and even if it hits you do no damage. One trait cycle from me does almost as much as one combo from you in CHIP DAMAGE. There's no pressure from arrow on knockdown because you have no mix ups. You can't back her to the corner. That doesn't happen. You are totally wrong. If you had said you played glass sword a lot and think it's 5-5 I'd be listening but Ray riazy isn't good Raven experience. @WoundCowboy is both the best in the world at the Raven mu AND he knows all my personal tendencies and he can't get a life bar on me with arrow. This match up is atrocious.
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I have played glass sword a pretty good amount but it's online and arrows Ice mixups work better because of lag. I agree that arrow can't zone at all that's why I said I don't think he should. If you're not throwing out

Everything you're saying about the chip and random soul crush is true, I agree it can be hard to get in. I also do pretty bad damage without MB cancels too. As of now I don't agree that his ice arrow mix up can be blocked easily if done correctly. You can fuzzy guard it easily if you're just doing f2d1 low ice and f2d13, revolver was the first person to really do that well against me. If you do f2d1 xx standing arrow and then either do a low shot or a jump back shot mixed in with f2d1 MB slide and f2d13 it becomes harder to block. I had to start doing that to open people up, it seems to take conditioning but it works at least. I've used it many times on good players with good reactions but I'm not going to confirm that it can't be blocked on reaction for sure until I get more than 1 time a month offline against them lol. It would be much easier to see whats up if I could play on a daily basis.

This is why I wish we had a good online mode. Everything is so spread out and shit netplay makes it worse.

I just want to add that MB slide is significant because it pushes her to the corner. If I get in I can use it in the f2d1 string.
 
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Blind_Ducky

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
Scoot Magee said:
I have played glass sword a pretty good amount but it's online and arrows Ice mixups work better because of lag. I agree that arrow can't zone at all that's why I said I don't think he should.

Everything you're saying about the chip and random soul crush is true, I agree it can be hard to get in. I also do pretty bad damage without MB cancels too. As of now I don't agree that his ice arrow mix up can be blocked easily if done correctly. You can fuzzy guard it easily if you're just doing f2d1 low ice and f2d13, revolver was the first person to really do that well against me. If you do f2d1 xx standing arrow and then either do a low shot or a jump back shot mixed in with f2d1 MB slide and f2d13 it becomes harder to block. I had to start doing that to open people up. I've used it many times on good players with good reactions but I'm not going to confirm that it can't be blocked on reaction for sure until I get more than 1 time a month offline against them lol.

This is why I wish we had a good online mode. Everything is so spread out and shit netplay makes it worse.
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Yeah arrow does good damage with mb cancels but now your spending 2 bars per combo just to try to compete with my damage. I'm not sure exactly how much he does if he uses a mb cancel in a combo but he's not always going to have 2 bars for ever combo. I'm not sure how fast mb slide is, or the damage, or where If it sends me full screen or anything but that sounds pretty bad if you have to resort to that. Yeah fuck blocking arrow online lol.
 
Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Blind_Man said:
Yeah arrow does good damage with mb cancels but now your spending 2 bars per combo just to try to compete with my damage. I'm not sure exactly how much he does if he uses a mb cancel in a combo but he's not always going to have 2 bars for ever combo. I'm not sure how fast mb slide is, or the damage, or where If it sends me full screen or anything but that sounds pretty bad if you have to resort to that. Yeah fuck blocking arrow online lol.
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I'm like 95% positive MB slide can't be blocked on reaction during his f2d1 string. It leaves him enough time to get 3 dashes if you don't quick roll. If you do quick roll he can get 2 easy, the timing to get 3 seems very strict or just random. I can only get 3 like half the time which isn't worth it imo.

I don't mind burning 2 bars for about 40% on average. I don't use meter for anything else besides MB slide for the most part. I don't think saving for super is the best way to play if you want to win. It can come in handy but it's not what I try to do.

I also think in the right spots as long as there isn't much distance arrow can actually use his arrows. It really depends o how the raven player is conditioned though. Still I'm ignorant to a lot of shit in this game due to lack of competition.

I spoke to an arrow player here on the forums that plays you (I think). I told him to try some of that stuff I mentioned so you guys can see if it really works.
 
Blind_Ducky

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
Scoot Magee said:
I'm like 95% positive MB slide can't be blocked on reaction during his f2d1 string. It leaves him enough time to get 3 dashes if you don't quick roll. If you do quick roll he can get 2 easy, the timing to get 3 seems very strict or just random. I can only get 3 like half the time which isn't worth it imo.

I also think in the right spots as long as there isn't much distance arrow can actually use his arrows. It really depends o how the raven player is conditioned though. Still I'm ignorant to a lot of shit in this game due to lack of competition.

I spoke to an arrow player here on the forums that plays you (I think). I told him to try some of that stuff I mentioned so you guys can see if it really works.
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If it's not possible to react to slide then whatever, if it hits me you have to get in again and you wasted a bar doing little damage. Which arrow player? The only arrow player over here dropped him for batman.
 
Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Blind_Man said:
If it's not possible to react to slide then whatever, if it hits me you have to get in again and you wasted a bar doing little damage. Which arrow player? The only arrow player over here dropped him for batman.
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Maybe he plays a different Raven player. I forgot his name but we were talking about this in a thread about a week ago. Maybe it's blind ducky that he plays against.

MB slide does only 15% but it really only take 1 or 2 to put you in the corner depending on the stage. I burn meter like a nut with arrow most of the time. All I want to do the entire match is push you to the corner.
 
Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
It was Forbidden Donut that I spoke to but I just checked and it's blind ducky that he plays against. Cossner actually told me to play you but you aren't from the NY area right?
 
Blind_Ducky

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
Scoot Magee said:
Maybe he plays a different Raven player. I forgot his name but we were talking about this in a thread about a week ago. Maybe it's blind ducky that he plays against.

MB slide does only 15% but it really only take 1 or 2 to put you in the corner depending on the stage. I burn meter like a nut with arrow most of the time. All I want to do the entire match is push you to the corner.
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Being in the corner against arrow isn't scary. If you hit me with a slide you have to play footsies with me again and arrow gets outfootsied by Raven so hitting me with another slide won't be easy. Arrow gets outzoned, outfootsied, outdamaged, and Raven can fuck him on knockdown. This match up is ass.
 
Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Blind_Man said:
Being in the corner against arrow isn't scary. If you hit me with a slide you have to play footsies with me again and arrow gets outfootsied by Raven so hitting me with another slide won't be easy. Arrow gets outzoned, outfootsied, outdamaged, and Raven can fuck him on knockdown. This match up is ass.
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I'm just way to stubborn to accept this without experiencing it first hand lol. Like I said I need to play more.

I always thought arrow had a pretty solid corner game. I always felt it was his only shot at really winning a lot of match ups.
 
Blind_Ducky

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
Scoot Magee said:
I'm just way to stubborn to accept this without experiencing it first hand lol. Like I said I need to play more.

I always thought arrow had a pretty solid corner game. I always felt it was his only shot at really winning a lot of match ups.
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Arrow sucks. This match up is bad. His corner game isn't scary.
 
DreadKnight1

DreadKnight1

Beaten, by this mere man
Scoot Magee said:
I'm just way to stubborn to accept this without experiencing it first hand lol. Like I said I need to play more.

I always thought arrow had a pretty solid corner game. I always felt it was his only shot at really winning a lot of match ups.
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arrow's corner game is just as bad as his midscreen game except he gets 30% meterless instead of 20% if he actually hits you.
 
Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Blind_Man said:
Arrow sucks. This match up is bad. His corner game isn't scary.
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I won't dispute that he's pretty bad.

I'm pretty sure he can actually use his arrows pretty well from right outside of footsie range which helps a little.

If I were to just stand and ready an ice arrow in front of you you would be able to block an overhead or low arrow on reaction? I may just have shit reactions but i was only able to block it about half the time against the dummy on record. It seems it can be ambiguous with delayed timing and etc.

Can anyone else confirm that it can be blocked on reaction?
 
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